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Gnar kind of needs a buff

Gnart Even Close··4 votes·2,270 views
Champion.gg - Gnar Top Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

They decided to buff Riven because she wasn't strong enough, but her winrate is higher than Gnar's (48.52% vs 47.92%). Why can't Gnar be buffed as well? For crying out loud, Yorick has a winrate that's over a percent higher than Gnar's, and he's not even on the free week rotation. Something is seriously wrong here.

Edit: Gnar's pro winrate is 46.67% http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Gnar. These are people that really know how to play Gnar, and if Gnar has a low winrate for them, then he clearly is not that strong. Someone even said that he was borderline OP right now.

Gnar does have counterplay. Play someone like Renekton, Riven, or Fiora against him. Anyone that has good gapclosers and CC can catch him out in mini and destroy him. Gnar is very weak early, and only survives because of his range. Abuse his weakness, and you will steamroll over him. Let him get rolling, and then he becomes a big problem.

Frozen Mallet is a terrible item and should be removed from the game, but that's a different point entirely.

If Riven of all champions is getting buffed, then why can't Gnar (who is much less frustrating than playing against a riven flopping all over the map like a fish) be buffed as well. There is absolutely no reason, unless you want to argue that neither of them should be strong, in which case there is a valid argument.

21 Comments

Illâoi Evê Siôn2 votes

Gnar's current gameplay patterns aren't healthy considering his design's intentions. Buffing him would make him unhealthy for the game.

(The problem being Gnar building full-Tank and still being as, if not more, effective as Fighter Gnar damage-wise)

Edit: And little Gnar is supposed to be squishier than he currently is, because they'd intended Gnar to buy less tanky items.

Verxint2 votes

Perhaps riot shouldn't have given a champ -balls of free stats -%enemy max HP damage -%own HP damage -a double jump -attack speed buff -multiple hard CC -a haste that can be refreshed constantly -safe CSing -poke -hard engage -disengage -permaslows -permakite

I'm not trying to QQ but I don't see why they felt it was nessecary for him to have all this. When he's strong, he becomes the perfect top laner. He's a fun idea and his gameplay pattern is good, they just randomly felt like throwing everything besides AP burst onto him

Gnart Even Close1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Mac is OP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Js9LdIjA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-19T17:32:22.194+0000)

Perhaps riot shouldn't have given a champ -balls of free stats -%enemy max HP damage -%own HP damage -a double jump -attack speed buff -multiple hard CC -a haste that can be refreshed constantly -safe CSing -poke -hard engage -disengage -permaslows -permakite

I'm not trying to QQ but I don't see why they felt it was nessecary for him to have all this. When he's strong, he becomes the perfect top laner. He's a fun idea and his gameplay pattern is good, they just randomly felt like throwing everything besides AP burst onto him

he is overloaded as hell, and i think some of these parts should be removed, like the attack speed buff and the health scaling on his jump (should be AD scaling). however, his gameplay is a lot healthier than many, many other champions, such as irelia, vayne, tahm kench, rengar, etc, and several of those are allowed to be strong. i don't think it's fair that it's that way at all

Gnart Even Close2 votes

{quoted}

Gnar's current gameplay patterns aren't healthy considering his design's intentions. Buffing him would make him unhealthy for the game.

(The problem being Gnar building full-Tank and still being as, if not more, effective as Fighter Gnar damage-wise)

Edit: And little Gnar is supposed to be squishier than he currently is, because they'd intended Gnar to buy less tanky items.

and riven's gameplay patterns are healthy?

i get that gnar is annoying, but he does have weaknesses that can be exploited, such as a lack of dps in mega gnar, being very squishy early game, and being unable to control his transformations. if you want to complain about frozen mallet, i get that and i agree that it should be removed from the game due to excessively supporting kiting.

Mini Gnar is supposed to be squishier than he currently is, but there are changes that could be made to change that. His passive could be changed to convert certain bonus stats into others depending on form (i.e. attack speed in mini gnar could be turned into HP for mega gnar, vice versa).

overall, gnar is not that strong right now, and he is much healthier than a lot of other champions in the game, especially a lot of the ones that he counters

Xenomancers1 votes

Gnar sure doesn't need a buff. If anything hes borderline OP. The only thing that keeps him from being a constant ban is a low play rate and a difficulty in learning his mechanics because they are kind of random. Laning against a good one though - it's basically impossible to get a kill on him 1v1. I've tried everything - renekton, teemo, garen - the HP gain he gets for turning mega is literally insane and nothing can fight him in that form. He's not too hard to draw against and play safe though - which is basically what you are forced to do. Maybe kennan or vayne or quinn can beat him but I don't play them top.

Verxint1 votes

Renekton actually does really well vs him, but you HAVE to start boots. His range at early levels is low enough that if he autos you, boots get you in Q range.

If you have your ult, you can fight Mega easily.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

try Fiora...early is a tad tough but there´s still nothing that has a chance fighting her later on when she has a decent level and 1-2items. apart from that i like playing fizz into him, as he´s easy to burst down when he´s mini and you have two gapclosers.

Gnart Even Close2 votes

{quoted}

Gnar sure doesn't need a buff. If anything hes borderline OP. The only thing that keeps him from being a constant ban is a low play rate and a difficulty in learning his mechanics because they are kind of random. Laning against a good one though - it's basically impossible to get a kill on him 1v1. I've tried everything - renekton, teemo, garen - the HP gain he gets for turning mega is literally insane and nothing can fight him in that form. He's not too hard to draw against and play safe though - which is basically what you are forced to do. Maybe kennan or vayne or quinn can beat him but I don't play them top.

he's not op at all right now. look at any of the stats you want to look at. even his pro winrate is incredibly low rn (46.67% according to http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Gnar). anyone that is tanky and has good DPS can fight mega gnar (i.e. irelia, jax, etc) or anyone that can kite him. if you want to beat him, play someone like fiora. she can just block his CC with her riposte, and has percent health true damage to shred him.

Xenomancers3 votes

Just play the most broken character in the game and you can beat gnar?

Gnart Even Close1 votes

{quoted}

Just play the most broken character in the game and you can beat gnar?

nerfing them would be an indirect buff to gnar, which would be plenty

Calabok1 votes

No he doesn't

Earl Eulrich1 votes

absolutly not.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Shugi shugi shugi. Demaglio!

Crossette1 votes

play broken duelists to beat the ranged harassment

Gnart Even Close1 votes

{quoted}

more or less. gnar beats immobile champions because of his kiting

Crossette1 votes

I was a Gnar main in the past.

Unless they did some SERIOUS changes, he doesn't need buffs. This meta even FAVORS him.

Gnart Even Close1 votes

{quoted}

I was a Gnar main in the past.

Unless they did some SERIOUS changes, he doesn't need buffs. This meta even FAVORS him.

then why are his play and winrates low, even at professional levels?

i think the faster, more aggressive meta makes it harder for him to do well in lane. he is fairly weak when behind, because he won't be able to tank a lot of damage like he needs to. there aren't any great keystone masteries for Gnar. grasp is ok, but is halved due to range. fervor is useless on mega gnar. thunderlord's doesn't give any dps or sustain, and is getting nerfed even more.

Crossette1 votes

Play rate and win rate aren't the most impactful things about a champion.

And yes, you nailed it. The meta means that he can't keep up because he isn't a high damage assassin or a massive-damage tank. He's more teamfight based, which is the only reason he sees LCS play. Just because a meta doesn't favor a champion doesn't mean they deserve a buff though.

Gnart Even Close1 votes

{quoted}

Play rate and win rate aren't the most impactful things about a champion.

And yes, you nailed it. The meta means that he can't keep up because he isn't a high damage assassin or a massive-damage tank. He's more teamfight based, which is the only reason he sees LCS play. Just because a meta doesn't favor a champion doesn't mean they deserve a buff though.

gnar is a more difficult champion to play well. i get that. that should not be reflected at all in pro play however. gnar is not good right now, as can be easily shown in his play rate and win rate. both are too low for a good champion.

gnar is a very high damage tank actually. %health damage on hyper hits hard, he has amazing base damages and his E damage scales with health. mega gnar has amazing burst combos and can 100-0 a squishy with his full combo before they are unstunned. if that doesn't count as high damage, i don't really know what does.

even an indirect buff would be nice. a change to grasp (no longer being reduced for ranged, only scaling with bonus health) would be a pretty nice buff to gnar, since it would make it more viable on him in both forms.

and riot clearly doesn't care about letting metas define whether certain champions are good. some will always be supported (i.e. lee sin), while others will be completely destroyed (i.e. sejuani). gnar is an interesting top laner, and is certainly more fun to see in lcs than someone like jax.

yes i am biased, but i only think it's fair that one of the best designed top laners should be allowed to shine.

Trylobyte1 votes

Sees regular LCS play. Needs a buff.

These two things rarely occur together.

Crossette1 votes

Cassiopeia

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