Why's Yasuo doing particularly bad now? (win rates)

Seenan··6 votes·740 views

All I hear are complaints about him by anyone on these boards, but his playrate being 11% (4th highest for mid) and win being 47% somehow justifies that? Even his toplane winrate isn't spectacular, just above average at 51% with 2nd highest playrate for top lane at 10.6%. I would think it's cause of Shiv being nerfed particularly hard many patches ago, but is there an alternate reason besides him having a particularly high skill ceiling? That can't be the whole reason. In 5.8, he got his flow change, and moving upwards to this patch, he's just gotten bug fixes that actually indirectly buff him.

22 Comments

PhantomGG2 votes

I think it's because of his lack of item build paths to be honest, you are pretty forced to go into Shiv into infinity edge, into last whisper, than after that, you will almost always want a life steal items. VS other champions who have a million builds for a million situations.

AlwaysByMySide5 votes

{quoted}

I think it's because of his lack of item build paths to be honest, you are pretty forced to go into Shiv into infinity edge, into last whisper, than after that, you will almost always want a life steal items. VS other champions who have a million builds for a million situations.

No optimal Yasuo build opts for a Last Whisper. He already gets huge amounts of bonus armour pen from his ult.

Hell, as a top laner Yasuo doesn't even need to build any crit to be effective.

item 3078 item 3022 item 3111 item 3026 item 3068 item 3053

The hot bruiser Yasuo build. Don't underestimate it.

JustMonika131 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JppV3A6Y,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-06-22T09:25:00.732+0000)

No optimal Yasuo build opts for a Last Whisper. He already gets huge amounts of bonus armour pen from his ult.

Hell, as a top laner Yasuo doesn't even need to build any crit to be effective.

item 3078 item 3022 item 3111 item 3026 item 3068 item 3053

The hot bruiser Yasuo build. Don't underestimate it.

Tried it once. It gives him obnoxious stickiness (not that he had any problems with it before).

Spicy Rice1 votes

Good ol Frozen Force.

I miss phantom dancer into triforce tho

JustMonika131 votes

{quoted}

I think it's because of his lack of item build paths to be honest, you are pretty forced to go into Shiv into infinity edge, into last whisper, than after that, you will almost always want a life steal items. VS other champions who have a million builds for a million situations.

Most people go Phantom Dancer instead of Statikk; it simply gives better stats and is safer. And really, only two of his slots are not open to debate (usually): the two items that give him crit. The other three are quite open to anything that can give him defensive stats (even Defensive-offensive hybrid items like Gage or Frozen Mallet) or life steal so that he doesn't get squashed like a bug once he goes in.

Oh and Last Whisper isn't really needed on him, since his ult gives him the same arm pen (albiet, for a short duration).

Death by Glamour2 votes

Considering how high his playrate is its actually not that bad.

Seenan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JppV3A6Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-22T07:35:25.206+0000)

Considering how high his playrate is its actually not that bad.

Consider for mid that Ahri has a 52% winrate with nearly 11% playrate. I'd honestly much rather play vs Yas than Ahri, imo. Not because of the winrates, just cause Ahri's Q MS buff gives me AIDS.

Lord Boltrix2 votes

TL;DR - Yasuo is a champ that gets extra value from items, and also exists in a state where he massively benefits from the mechanically skilled, but outside of them he flounders between good to average based on who he faces, but he can be too frustrating to play against since the vast majority are the people even average Yasuos can excel against.


I think Yasuo suffers from a very familiar situation where he is statistically underpowered but kept in this state because a good number of people would find outrage if he were to get any meaningful buffs. It's a symptom of the fact that while playing him is one of the most stellar experiences League has to offer, fighting against him can become especially infuriating considering he has the potential to block meaningful spells with Wind Wall on top of being able to poke (and potentially engage on you) from a surprisingly safe distance.

Is he Zed? No, but he can be obnoxious at times for certain people who favor the champions Yasuo excels against or can mitigate to some degree; yet his poke and his mobility is conditional and therefore telegraphed easily, which is why he struggles at higher elos where people naturally can deal with him far more easily.

At lower elos, people just lack the means to properly punish him for doing what he is meant to do, and they don't punish him properly for certain behaviors (trying to poke him when he tries to last-hit to pop his shield, not baiting out the Wind Wall before starting a fight on him, not reacting properly after noting when he has his tornado ready, etc.), and often follow the worst behaviors that he wants (staying near your own minions when he tries to dash through them and/or throw his tornado through, throwing everything at him when he has Wind Wall off cooldown and/or minions to dash through, trying to dive him when he has his ultimate and a tornado ready, etc.)

He sort of exists in a place where he excels against people who just aren't good and is only average against people who aren't bad, and anything to try to put him in a better spot will just prompt backlash from the majority of players, who statistically make up the lower elos which have problems with Yasuo.

That isn't to say Yasuo doesn't have legitimate reasons to be kept underpowered, he is mechanically complex and can excel even in high elos with people who have excellent mechanical mastery with champions like Lee Sin, Syndra, Azir, Zed, etc; this combined with the situational power of his kit can make him quite frustrating to deal with, because he can invalidate anyone with important long-range skillshots (a lot of ADC ults like Ashe's arrow or Jinx's Rocket for example), and his mobility that in the right situation means he can be as impossible to catch as he is to escape.

Ultimately, though, I think the biggest problem with him is that he is secretly a value champion, he gets a lot out of items more than most champions because he has things in his kit that increase his overall value when getting stats, he has a refleshable shield that is generated from moving which increases the value of movement speed on himself by reducing the need for health in his build, he has the double crit passive which massively increases the value of crit on himself and devalues the need to focus crit in his build, and he has the bonus armor penetration on his ultimate when used that greatly increases the value of the damage he deals.

Seenan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Boltrix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JppV3A6Y,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-06-22T11:14:13.434+0000)

snip

Well said. And I do believe you're right, since .gg sites only pull stats from plat+...It'd be nice to know the winrates for lower elos though so I can make a proper point.

Seenan2 votes

It worries me that I'm just getting downvoted by this board's connoisseurs of downvoting any Yasuo/Zed/Riven advocate threads. Seems like no one's actually reading the post.

To be blunt, if the player has more mechanical skill than you as well as Yasuo experience, he can outplay a lot of people, but he's still a melee adc/fighter...If he gets cc'd by anything (bring a Leona, Xer, Annie, even Brand) he's done unless he has decent defensives such as a visage or maw or whatnot. That, and/or he has some outplay prowess that he knows how to put to fruition. Late game ofc he'll destroy your adc in a few hits at full glass cannon build; your ADC will pretty much do the same to any squishy.

Around999People1 votes

A lot of champions that he used to steam roll got buffed. I play Vel support. Before the update recently Yas had a solid chance to win (windfall the combo and he won automatically) but now Vel is strong enough to have a solid chance. I mean, I like to think I'm kinda good with Vel and I win 7/10 fights against a Yas I believe

Around999People1 votes

Plus, he relies on mobility a lot, and the meta doesn't work with him. Like, Mao. He has a knock back and a root which beat Yas. Zyra had a root, and others stop his mobility

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

A lot of champions that he used to steam roll got buffed. I play Vel support. Before the update recently Yas had a solid chance to win (windfall the combo and he won automatically) but now Vel is strong enough to have a solid chance. I mean, I like to think I'm kinda good with Vel and I win 7/10 fights against a Yas I believe

I'd think Vel wins that fight more often cause of this rate he can spam his spells and never even be remotely close to him. Bring exhaust and you'll prob never die ever.

Around999People1 votes

Well, Yas used minions to get close, and wind walls my Q,w,e combo leaving only W and R to fight him. In that sense he has a chance

JustMonika131 votes

The boards complain just because even if he's doing "poorly", he's still frustrating to play against, despite that being partly intentional. A good Yasuo will still outplay anyone and anything if given the chance to.

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

The boards complain just because even if he's doing "poorly", he's still frustrating to play against, despite that being partly intentional. A good Yasuo will still outplay anyone and anything if given the chance to.

Yeah, but how many good Yasuos do you see in low, even moderately high elo? If he has 100 games on your champ and can outplay your champ (ie, your champ isn't one of his many counters) then arguably, that can be said for anyone using any champion. Not many low elo kids are Faker or Bjerg that can probably pick up a Soraka with no games played and win mid.

Mig891 votes

Im Low elo but i feel zyra is a hard counter to yasuo once she has ryalias. He can dash through minions all he wants to but i can pop seeds behind it with q and slow him and as soon as that windwall is down i can snare him. Even if i miss the seeds that pop from her E slow him and by then Q is refreshed for more damage/slow. I dont play her mid much but ive never lost lane to a yasuo on her.

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

Im Low elo but i feel zyra is a hard counter to yasuo once she has ryalias. He can dash through minions all he wants to but i can pop seeds behind it with q and slow him and as soon as that windwall is down i can snare him. Even if i miss the seeds that pop from her E slow him and by then Q is refreshed for more damage/slow. I dont play her mid much but ive never lost lane to a yasuo on her.

I would think maybe a skilled Yasuo would either use dashes to step on your seeds or utilize the plants as a dash catalyst for escapes or plays.

In any case, that's 1 out of many champs.

Mig891 votes

You gotta position yourself against him. I always stay away from my minions unless im trying to bait him. He can dash over the plants but he still will get hit with a slow and thats where i either peel for myself or just disengage. her plants help a lot with farming right in front of the tower because you can keep the wave out from under it.,

yashimitsuo

i dont think it has anything to do with items or meta. i think it is mostly from the fact that he is pretty hard to master and most people in solo q havent done that yet. i main yas and i recently hit plat playing nothing but him, not that plat is that great. im closing in on 400k mastery with him and im still not sure that i have even mastered him. even at 100 games with him theres to many mistakes that can be made and not many people put in that much work with a single champion. if you have any yas questions you can message me in game - Yashimitsuo. im always trying to learn more also.

JafarThePanda2 votes

{quoted}

i dont think it has anything to do with items or meta. i think it is mostly from the fact that he is pretty hard to master and most people in solo q havent done that yet. i main yas and i recently hit plat playing nothing but him, not that plat is that great. im closing in on 400k mastery with him and im still not sure that i have even mastered him. even at 100 games with him theres to many mistakes that can be made and not many people put in that much work with a single champion. if you have any yas questions you can message me in game - Yashimitsuo. im always trying to learn more also.

E Q R is so hard to do. is that a skillshot I see? Just throw up this windwall that destroys two types of champions' effectiveness entirely for no cost. Oh, Olaf is sprinting towards me in ult? Just dash through the creep wave with an E that still does damage, rinse and repeat.

Don't pride yourself on a broken champ

Seenan2 votes

{quoted}

E Q R is so hard to do. is that a skillshot I see? Just throw up this windwall that destroys two types of champions' effectiveness entirely for no cost. Oh, Olaf is sprinting towards me in ult? Just dash through the creep wave with an E that still does damage, rinse and repeat.

Don't pride yourself on a broken champ

If Yasuo was broken, don't you think even a beginner (hint: <40 games) in plat+ would allow the winrates to achieve new heights? Olaf can just Q you repeatedly. In a handtohand fight, Olaf will win early/maybe mid and windwall can't block ALL his axes since it doesn't last forever/has a long cd.

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