New Garen is fun

CaptainAntiHeroz·Oct 9, 2019·7 votes·6,767 views

I like healing a lot, being fast, and yeeting enemies with ults..... tbh I really like the new Garen its hella fun, but it my be a bit strong, thoughts?

87 Comments

Riftn00bOct 9, 20195 votes

I don't think granting instant conqueror to any champion is healthy. He can deal more damage than any adc while remaining tanky asf. I would remove the tenacity from his W now. But I don't play Garen, it is just my first impression.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 9, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I don't think granting instant conqueror to any champion is healthy. He can deal more damage than any adc while remaining tanky asf. I would remove the tenacity from his W now. But I don't play Garen, it is just my first impression.

and he heals like mundo early game, I tanked my junglers buff for him because he was a little level 1 fiddlesticks, lost like a third of my health and by the time i got top i was almost full health XD

LightswornLanceOct 9, 20193 votes

At level one his heal is actually the exact same as mundos. Mundo has a flat .3% per second and garen has 1.5% per 5. Only difference is garens scales but isnt active in combat.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20193 votes

Only difference is garens scales but isnt active in combat.

Which is a BIG difference. Cause the only counter play to Mundos is Grevious Wounds. Where as the counter play to Garens is hit him at-least every 7s. Hence why Garens scales better. Previously Garens passive was pretty useless untill Lvl 11, then it kicked in strong.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 201911 votes

Go try Garen. He is 100% Melee with a 1.5s MS buff as his gap closer. He deserves melting people if he gets to them, and has to be tanky in order to get to them.

GilxeNOct 9, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jobv6yh5,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-10-09T12:59:32.808+0000)

Go try Garen. He is 100% Melee with a 1.5s MS buff as his gap closer. He deserves melting people if he gets to them, and has to be tanky in order to get to them.

So wrong on entire level...

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 201910 votes

Whats wrong? the Facts that he is 100% melee? or the Fact he only has a 1.5s MS buff as a gap closer? Or that if a squishy LETS Garen get to them Garen deserves to shred them? Or that Garen has to be tanky in order to survive?

Please explain.

GilxeNOct 9, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jobv6yh5,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-09T13:45:46.820+0000)

Whats wrong? the Facts that he is 100% melee? or the Fact he only has a 1.5s MS buff as a gap closer? Or that if a squishy LETS Garen get to them Garen deserves to shred them? Or that Garen has to be tanky in order to survive?

Please explain.

There are movement increasing items, so that's compensated, not always you can kite juggernauts.

Garen always been a stat check champ.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20197 votes

You mean those same items that the opponents can get???? LMFAO

FACT: Garen has to OUTPLAY EVERY RANGED champ in order to even hit them.

GilxeNOct 9, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jobv6yh5,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-09T13:48:24.366+0000)

You mean those same items that the opponents can get???? LMFAO

Ok for example:

I am Lee Sin player, facing a Garen.

Now tell me how I suppose to dodge his Q, yes I can use dash and stuff, but whats next? my dash CD = his Q cd.

Garen is one of those champs who you can't easily outduel, if the Garen has right itemization despite we both have same gold.

Use common logic instead of spitting random non-sense.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20198 votes

LOL, lets use common sense instead of spitting random non-sense and THINK about the 2 champions for a second.

You picked one of the MOST mobile champs to try and disprove me.....good job!

You can Q to enemy minions or Monsters if needed.
You can W to an ally minion/champ/ward, Easiest option.
You can slow with E before Garen even gets into AA range.
You can Ult him away before he is even in his AA range, not recommended to just do all the time, but you CAN do it.

Garen Q CD is 8s at all ranks. Lee Q CD is 11/10/9/8/7, W CD is 12, and E CD is 10. Lee will almost ALWAYS have 1 of the 3 abilities to get away if needed.

Lets say Garen Qs and runs at you. You W to you furthest minion, getting away. You now have 8s with 0 threat, and then another 4s of you waiting for your W CD. GOD FORBID YOU PLAY SAFE FOR 4 SECONDS! I mean or you could just use Q, E or R if needed.

Garen base MS is 340, Lee base MS is 345. So he naturally can just walk away from Garen. Garen HAS to use Q to even have a chance at getting to Lee.

Again GAREN has to OUTPLAY his opponent in order to even attack him in almost EVERY case. There are a few exceptions vs champs that don't have as much MS buffs or dashes. Singed DrMundo Darius

Edit: Yes Down vote logical reasoning and common sense lol. A Lee has WAY more tools to get and from his targets than a Garen.

Msg for boostingOct 9, 20191 votes

[deleted]

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20191 votes

Sry did those facts hurt your feelings?

Gotta love rank shamers on lvl 19 accounts lol. Not Ballzy enough to show your real rank? Buahahhahaha

GilxeNOct 10, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jobv6yh5,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-09T14:10:02.204+0000)

LOL, lets use common sense instead of spitting random non-sense and THINK about the 2 champions for a second.

You picked one of the MOST mobile champs to try and disprove me.....good job!

You can Q to enemy minions or Monsters if needed.

You can W to an ally minion/champ/ward, Easiest option.

You can slow with E before Garen even gets into AA range.

You can Ult him away before he is even in his AA range, not recommended to just do all the time, but you CAN do it.

Garen Q CD is 8s at all ranks. Lee Q CD is 11/10/9/8/7, W CD is 12, and E CD is 10. Lee will almost ALWAYS have 1 of the 3 abilities to get away if needed.

Lets say Garen Qs and runs at you. You W to you furthest minion, getting away. You now have 8s with 0 threat, and then another 4s of you waiting for your W CD. GOD FORBID YOU PLAY SAFE FOR 4 SECONDS! I mean or you could just use Q, E or R if needed.

Garen base MS is 340, Lee base MS is 345. So he naturally can just walk away from Garen. Garen HAS to use Q to even have a chance at getting to Lee.

Again GAREN has to OUTPLAY his opponent in order to even attack him in almost EVERY case. There are a few exceptions vs champs that don't have as much MS buffs or dashes.

Edit: Yes Down vote logical reasoning and common sense lol. A Lee has WAY more tools to get and from his targets than a Garen.

You're so delusional that it's no more point to argue, Garen first of all is juggernaut and Lee Sin is a bruiser, no fking matter how I am mobile, I am still unable to trade Garen due his tanky kit with now inbuilt permanent execute true damage...

Go ahead play Lee Sin top for example against Garen, you will end up struggling touching CS.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 10, 20191 votes

NOOOOOO, IT CANT BE SO! Lee sin having to struggle in top lane! MUST NERF.

Lee Sin has bigger issues with Darius Fiora Irelia Riven Renekton top than he would with Garen. And If you cant trade with Garen as Lee then thats on you not knowing how to play your strengths into his weaknesses.

AND lee sin is not balanced around being a top laner is he? But its okay, I'm delusional!

GilxeNOct 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jobv6yh5,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-10-10T12:28:36.894+0000)

NOOOOOO, IT CANT BE SO! Lee sin having to struggle in top lane! MUST NERF.

Lee Sin has bigger issues with top than he would with Garen. And If you cant trade with Garen as Lee then thats on you not knowing how to play your strengths into his weaknesses.

AND lee sin is not balanced around being a top laner is he? But its okay, I'm delusional!

It was just an example, but whatever floats your delusional boat, buddy.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 11, 20191 votes

Yes, and example you lost TERRIBLY at. lol ENJOY!

LightswornLanceOct 9, 20195 votes

Just hop over a wall and he has to run around, its that easy... Not like a jungler will be 1v1ing a toplaner anyway though.

Msg for boostingOct 9, 20191 votes

[deleted]

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20191 votes

Good argument! Also I am a Garen main so your right I never have faced one out side of bronze. But my Opponents Face a G1 almsot P4 all the time ;)

But let's get back to trying to rank shame.

Msg for boostingOct 9, 20191 votes

Oh no, you think plat players know how to play this game at all, and so this season high gold, so any other seasons mid silver, got it.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20191 votes

I would argue they know better than 80% of the community, as they are in the top 20%.

And I personally know better than a lvl 19 player lol. I probably have 100-150x more games played than you.

RolàntOct 10, 20191 votes

[deleted]

Romans VI XXIIIOct 10, 20191 votes

OH NO, not another unranked troll! PLEASE SEND HELP!

Top 20% is Low elo?

ChrisBrownzeOct 10, 20191 votes

Dont listen to that guy. He claims hes d2 yet he has 3 accounts stuck in g2

Romans VI XXIIIOct 10, 20191 votes

i'm aware lol. its just fun trolling trolls.

Weiner the PoohOct 9, 20196 votes

So other melees just deserve to die?

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20195 votes

Most other melees play just fine vs him and can easily run from him if they need to. He received a very small buff to his damage, and lost alot of in-combat defense.

wolviusOct 9, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Small PP Player,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jobv6yh5,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2019-10-09T14:14:22.813+0000)

So other melees just deserve to die?

Well that seems to be the route they're taking with fiora and she ain't even immobile.

Riftn00bOct 9, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jobv6yh5,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-10-09T12:59:32.808+0000)

Go try Garen. He is 100% Melee with a 1.5s MS buff as his gap closer. He deserves melting people if he gets to them, and has to be tanky in order to get to them.

I'd say he is quite well compensated for that. One of the best healing factor in the game, in-built armor and mr, 2 different type of anti-cc, an unstoppable attack... he had a stable ~51% win rate before this patch, so he was fine. I am afraid with his true damage and attack speed buffs he will melt not just squishies but bruisers and tanks as well which isn't okay. Will see what happens though.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20195 votes

Oh I agree, he was right where he needed to be Win Rate/play rate wise.

In my opinion this was in total a Slight Net Nerf.

Innate: Tweaked for a better early, over all I'd say Net Even maybe slightly Net Positive.

Q: Slightly Net Positive.

W: Net Negative, the 60% damage reduction is stronger than a 10% HP shield in 90% of uses so Net Loss there and reduced Passive Resistances giving even more Net Loss.

E: Slightly Net Positive. Damage wise they are almost identical. With new gaining a little as you get more AS with certain items. Being able to use Conq is a plus, but don't think its going to have a much of a factor change on him.

R: Over all Net Even. Reduced damage, but made it always true. Going to deal nearly the exact same amount of damage in most cases.

Basicly, they removed some of his in combat Sustain and gave him a little bit more out of combat sustain and damage.

EonslegacyOct 9, 20191 votes

Nah, garen does over 20k damage with just 1 spin now, if you build for it, and your not squishy (at least as squishy as a normal squishy is).

Problem is riot keeps making death zone champions. Champions that just straight up cant be outplayed in a certain range they just win 100% of the time vs 100% of the roster. Stopping them from getting to that point is the entire game now. Its why snowballing is so bad. is a great example, how can he ever hope to be useful, he is melee with 1 slow thats point and click. Over buffing him, thats how. Get him so strong that he just takes so long to kill that he is better than a normal tank at tanking. Doesnt matter if he never hits anyone if the THREAT is so high that you have to focus him and flee the entire time and cant change targets. Gives peel to allies just by existing. _ Ps. not saying tank/duelist nasus is good, but he will only be good (non ap nasus) if he is just statistically broken. He cant get in range enough to matter. _ Seems ritos doing the same thing to garen now. Hitting 15 spins at 300 damage a spin gets really ridiculous especially with 3k hp and 200 armor and 150 mr. And now an hp shield.

Riot seems to be using statball champs like Darius Volibear to keep "SKEL" champs like Riven Fiora and Yasuo in check now. Doesnt matter if you have 99 tools like a lee sin, if you cant ever farma single minion because you instantly die for it.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20193 votes

Nah, garen does over 20k damage with just 1 spin now, if you build for it, and your not squishy (at least as squishy as a normal squishy is).

Garen could already do this "if you build for it".

Garens actual damage output in a NORMAL build is slightly higher, like a few % higher. Yea you can build him Crit or Glass cannon, and he will deal alot of damage. But he wont survive long enough to do it.

LightswornLanceOct 9, 20196 votes

Pantheon gets instant conqueror but then again he isnt exactly healthy.

InfernapeOct 9, 20194 votes

His E is a terribly inconsistent ability. It's an AoE damage over time spell, yet grants stacks of conqueror with every damage tick (when AoE DoTs are specifically coded to give one stack of Conqueror for the entire duration). Going by that logic, Mordekaiser's passive, Wukong and Rumble's ultimates and Rumble's Q should all grant stacks every time their damage ticks.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 9, 20192 votes

{quoted}

His E is a terribly inconsistent ability. It's an AoE damage over time spell, yet grants stacks of conqueror with every damage tick (when AoE DoTs are specifically coded to give one stack of Conqueror for the entire duration). Going by that logic, Mordekaiser's passive, Wukong and Rumble's ultimates and Rumble's Q should all grant stacks every time their damage ticks.

ah yeah i don't disagree its insane that made it to live, but i mean if riot keeps this up TANK META WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Tower damage? nope Running down the enemy team like a freight train? HELL YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH its crazy but i gotta say its pretty funny to play

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20195 votes

I agree that Wu ult should give more stacks. But not the rest. As Garen and Wu are Locked into their respected abilities over the duration. Where as Rumble, Mord, and other AoE DoT champions are not, they can AA and cast other spells.

Honestly I think Grasp/Predator will still be the go to runes for me. Math wise Grasp out damages/heals Conq all day on Garen, specially now that his R is True damage and is un-affected by Conq. And Grasp/Pred fit his play style. Garen is not a sustained fighter, he wants to Q > E and run away before you can retaliate much. In most cases (specailly early game) a Garen will hardly even use Conq compared to Grasp.

EonslegacyOct 9, 20191 votes

qe is all it takes now tho is the problem. Qe with 2items is a dead target.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20192 votes

Yes a Glass Cannon Garen can kill a target with Q and E. I agree.

Why are you letting a Melee only 1.5-3.5s 30% MS buffed Garen walk up to you and kill you? lol.

Kite Him.
Kill Him.
EZ win.

EonslegacyOct 14, 20191 votes

This is for every single comment you have made. Garen has so much damage, that he doesnt need to build damage anymore. Garen can go 2 damage full tank and still out dps your ryze thats full build. Thats why "kiting" "killing" and "ez win" no longer work. Garen can go 1 full less damage item now, and have FAR more tank stats than before. AND garen can ALSO take spell vamp and heal from that damage making him EVEN tankier. PLUS garen has a % hp shield now instead of % damage reduction, and with all the true damage now, that is MASSIVELY more tanky. He did lose some armor and mr from his w, but that was at the cost of double damage. Old garen did far less than new garen. New garen hits MORE times and each hit hits for MORE damage. Old garen required to spin alone on 1 person with no minions or anything to do full damage and that damage was less than the new garens. New garen can spin on 12 minions and 3 champs and do full damage to the champ he is trying to kill. That is FAR stronger especially with vamp runes. Nullifying orb by itself would have removed the ult. Now it doesnt even affect it. Riste even said, playing garen witha full ap team is a death sentence, because people will build mr and take nullifying or hex and your R is useless even tho they arent trying to build against you. Garen, is, too, strong

EonslegacyOct 9, 20191 votes

They cant balance him,and no rune works well on him, so they give him unfair synergies.

Steeds of TimeOct 9, 20194 votes

He may be fun, to the user. Cuz imo adding all these changes make him overtuned and frustrating to fight against. Pointing out on that gracious ult.

Sire HippingtonOct 9, 20194 votes

I see two big issues with him: Conqueror, which hopefully is removed/rework in preseason, and the changes to his ult. Playing a melee into him is bad as it is, but with that much additional truedamage and a good chunk of it even %hp, it's just out right miserable playing tanks or other juggers against garen. I'd like to have the ult reverted, and after conqueror is removed, we can see where he lands and maybe either buff W or Q utillity to compensate if needed. The As ratio on E is nice, it's fun, and a risk reward thing. You can go for insane damage with as/crit builts, but you are squishy for an imobile melee and really have to make those brushes work or you die befor doing anything.

Romans VI XXIIIOct 9, 20191 votes

Ult change is fine. They lowered damage and changed it from Magic damage to True. Net damage remains the same on most targets.

EonslegacyOct 9, 20193 votes

Not really, garen never built pen before So you COULD build against it, take nullifying orb or a maw. Most targets take more damage and have no way around it. Before the natural fact your melee gave enough mr to reduce the damage to below the current. Before magic shields would work, % damage reductions would work such as after shock mr etc. You can no longer build against him. He will still be garen, and melee, but now he is garen with nearly 2x the damage.

Sire HippingtonOct 9, 20191 votes

for squishy targets it doesn't matter, but other juggers and especially tanks get hit way harder by it while haveing no real way to play around it unlike those squishy folks that usually have range and/or mobillity. The ult change made it stronger vs those that have no option to counterplay him while keeping it about the same vs those who can.

ZleraOct 9, 20193 votes

One AI Beginner game GaRen Is Op RioT nErF hIm. Okay SoloRenektonOnly. In AI games anything works. Hell, I can play AD Ivern and still do well. Play 10 NORMAL games on Garen, then tell me his kit is broken or whatever. ONE bot game =/= OP champion.