Lets nerf Jinx! But not the way the PBE is doing it.

Saixos·Apr 21, 2015·27 votes·3,169 views

What will the PBE changes really do to Jinx? She'll still be able to be very effective with everything she does, she just won't have her ult to burst people point blank range. She'll still have her current scaling pattern of being decent at the start of the game and then scaling up to a hypercarry without ever falling down or having a very vulnerable phase in which she can be shut down.

Instead of going on about stuff, proposal: Instead of changing Jinx's ult, Jinx's rocket launcher (fishbones) is no longer able to crit on all targets in blast radius, only the target Jinx targets.

We all hate crits, and AOE crits are a nightmare. This lowers Jinx's hypercarry abilities somewhat while still keeping her viable, and also lowers her late game waveclear allowing her to be played around against a bit better.

49 Comments

AetherKingdomApr 21, 20155 votes

I very much prefer the ult nerf.

SaixosApr 21, 20152 votes

Out of curiosity, could you perhaps explain why? I've never really had a problem with Jinx's ult, yet her ability to be good at all stages of the game and then end up as a hypercarry has always bothered me. So I want to hit the hypercarry state, so that Jinx ends up being "good" at all stages of the game while never being as powerful as the really strong people at that stage.

l Main RenektonApr 21, 20155 votes

Myself, I don't like the concept of giving even more percent health to someone that has a hypercarry status even without it. It makes being in lane with her when she hits 6 an insane burden because being below half health means that an engage by her and her support almost guarantees a kill on a target. Compared it to Vayne's level 6, they're both hypercarries but realize that Vayne's ult doesn't do her nearly as much good in lane phase.

Sire HippingtonApr 21, 20152 votes

but that nerf changes nothing on the %health side

Critmaster GarenApr 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I very much prefer the ult nerf.

why not both?

seriously. she needs more than that ult nerf anyways. they also should lower her base attack speed, to increase the ramp up time of her minigun to full speed. right now it takes what? 2 or 3 attacks that she can burn on minions?

you have ashe, who has utility and no notable attack speed steroid. you have ezreal, who has a free flash and long range poke, but again not great of an attack steroid. you have sivir, who has strong attack speed steroids, but little utility.

and then you have jinx, who for some reason is an ad scaling utility mage with a mobility passive and attack steroids in her kit.

just to put her into perspective of other ranged ad. classic case of overloaded kit. they should actually just flat out remove some of unecessary stuff. like the slow on her q, or the vision on her mines. she should either get damage, or utility. right now she has both.

but since that wont happen knowing riot, a nerf to her minigun, ult and rocket damage would do.

The Yetii RiderApr 22, 20151 votes

Did you seriously say that Sivir, the ONLY ADC with an ultimate that deals no damage, has 'low utility'? Utility is both cc AND buffs, and Sivir has the latter for days compared to other carries.

StrawberrycocoaApr 21, 20154 votes

"We all hate crits."

I don't. Watching critical strikes shred tanks alive is fun as hell.

SaixosApr 21, 20152 votes

A bit of an overexaggeration, I'll admit. I prefer to keep the start of a thread as short as possible because it makes it easier to digest and then discuss in the replies. What I was referring to there was more the unreliability and surprise burst crits give to ADCs, the 1% crit rune for example. I love playing ADCs, and crits are really fun when they happen, but putting that massive damage on an AOE ability? Runaans doesn't even deal 100% of the damage of a basic attack, much less 110% with additional crits.

Sire HippingtonApr 21, 20152 votes

ever thought about the reciving side? I definitly hate crits(mostly cause of the random nature, but they also scale slightly to hard)

StrawberrycocoaApr 22, 20152 votes

If balance decisions factored in the receiving side, burst assassins wouldn't exist.

And think about this for a second: that massive tank-shredding damage is necessary to make tank and bruisers defeatable. Burst damage doesn't stop them since they have enough health and defensives to weather it. You need that sustained prolonged damage, including the spikes from Crit, to make them manageable.

Crit nerfs would require more nerfs to defensive attributes for balancing purposes. You would never stop a tanky frontline without that big sustained damage from crits.

IcyPepperApr 21, 20154 votes

Instead of going on about stuff, proposal: Instead of changing Jinx's ult, Jinx's rocket launcher (fishbones) is no longer able to crit on all targets in blast radius, only the target Jinx targets.

Hey, I suggested this before! :D I support this, even though I love Jinx. She needs her only waveclear, yes, but it should have normal AD ratios like Caitlyn's waveclear. And being able to crit an entire team just isn't fair, even if it fun to see those big numbers.

ƒoesApr 22, 20153 votes

In all honesty, with the Jinx ult nerf in PBE, you might as well shoot a Nerf gun and do more damage. Taking "nerf" to the next level.

IpolsApr 21, 20152 votes

This is actually a really good idea in my opinion, if not the numbers, the concept is valid.

Curling VeigarApr 21, 20152 votes

just wait. there are more pbe patches coming out and I hope they nerf her more

I Main SwainApr 21, 20152 votes

why not both?

and actually, the minimum damage is when they are full hp AND its point blank. before, a fed jinx could half health a full health adc with her ult.

Lord DusteonApr 21, 20152 votes

I personally like the nerf (as someone who plays Jinx a bit): her ultimate still had AMAZING damage even point blank, which in addition to the 35% missing hp is excessive. The nerf helps differentiate between a %hp execute point blank (where you still have the massive wind up time during which the enemy can kill you and not die due to massive base + scaling at point blank) or an actual longer range "hunt those bitches down" rocket.

qetzelApr 22, 20152 votes

This nerf was chosen because: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/BiL98QHi-this-is-a-disgusting-excuse-for-an-olaf-riot-jinx-pbe-changes?comment=00070005

In summary: Jinx is a hyper carry who can kill every single member of your team from extreme ranges if left alone but if you jump on her she should be at a severe disadvantage. Nerfing the pointblank ultimate makes the weakness more true and allows us to preserve her strengths in light of extreme power in solo queue.

Your changes do not fulfil the intended purpose of the nerf

Deep Terror NamiApr 21, 20151 votes

Idk, I got rekt by a point-blank SMDR yesterday; that change would've been really nice right about then lol.

McprowlingtonApr 21, 20151 votes

Honestly it looks more like they're trying to just distinguish graves as an all in burst champion by not allowing jinx to do the same thing. It's a fine strategy, they're weakening one of her options that was never intended to be as strong as it was.

City of TorontoApr 21, 20151 votes

Where can I find the notes/source to this nerf? I can't seem to find it on surrenderat20

EDIT: nvm found it

Only Play DariusApr 21, 20151 votes

AOE crits are what makes jinx, jinx. No other champion has that, and i think it should remain.

I Am FlorgApr 22, 20151 votes

Technically Yasuo also has AOE crits.

Maligaro SpikeApr 22, 20151 votes

twitch too :3

Sire HippingtonApr 21, 20151 votes

I agree, if she seems to weak afterwards one could still change the rockets ad-ratio from 1.10 to 1.00/1.05/1.10/1.15/1.20

Jinx should need to decide wether she opts for aoe damage with runaans or singletarget with crit. Another thing i'd like to see is lower damage with minigun vs structures, it feels strange that a minigun is petter suited to level structures than a rocket luncher, and her cleanup with passive + massive objektive dps is a bit to snowbally if she wins a single fight anyway.

junglerboy16Apr 22, 20151 votes

You're targeting the wrong aspect of her kit. Everything about her screams hyper-carry. They need to nerf her early game, not her late game, otherwise she will be good at all points of the game, rather than good and then great late game like she is now (ideally she should be weak early, good mid game, strong late game).

thinking manApr 22, 20151 votes

Your proposed change is actually a bigger nerf unless you literally cannot land a rocket outside of point-blank.

Raja ChachkiApr 22, 20151 votes

Good idea! Jinx's problem is NOT her ult, in fact I have found that most Jinx let's usually run right by me, and often don't do much damage when used point blank. However, the thing that REALLY makes her strong is her Q, her auto attack "steroid", something all ADCs must have. If your change would nerf her too much, might I suggest just lowering her rocket (auto attack) range at lvl 1 so it's the same no matter which gun, and nerf the other Q lvl ranges by perhaps 15-20

Widder88Apr 22, 20151 votes

Major Problem of Jinx Kit is that her W and R scale with AD. It has to scale with AP. It is stupid to give a Hypercarry AD scalings.

iamthegoatofwarApr 22, 20155 votes

tell that to draven. and vayne.

StrawberrycocoaApr 22, 20152 votes

AP Scalings on Marksmen are an extremely outdated concept by this point. Marksmen with AP scalings basically never get to use those abilities, and many of them only have AP Scalings because they aren't intended to be used for damage.

If W and R got AP scalings they would need massive utility buffs. Bigger slow, higher %HP execution, etc.

DomainSpecificApr 22, 20152 votes

W is a pretty underwhelming skill as it is.

It is good for poke and damage, but the round up is too long, and the path is really obvious.

metaworldpeace10Apr 22, 20154 votes

{quoted}

W is a pretty underwhelming skill as it is.

It is good for poke and damage, but the round up is too long, and the path is really obvious.

No, her w is not underwhelming at all. A 70% slow is nothing to scoff at.

DomainSpecificApr 22, 20151 votes

The underwhelming part is how hard it is to land. I mean, Zilean in theory has an AOE stun that deals insane dmg.

metaworldpeace10Apr 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The underwhelming part is how hard it is to land. I mean, Zilean in theory has an AOE stun that deals insane dmg.

Hard to land?? Her W has one of the most forgiving hitboxes in the game! Not to mention the range plus utility it brings! Nothing is underwhelming about this skill at all. It's a long range poke with a HUGE slow plus a reveal utility added on. If anything, this skill is overloaded.

mvargusApr 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hard to land?? Her W has one of the most forgiving hitboxes in the game! Not to mention the range plus utility it brings! Nothing is underwhelming about this skill at all. It's a long range poke with a HUGE slow plus a reveal utility added on. If anything, this skill is overloaded.

And yet I can lane against a Jinx and make sure she hits less than 5% of her W shots in lane. It's got a long cast time and puts down a line showing the path long before it fires. Getting out of the way is easy for any player paying attention.

I think you need to pay more attention to the counterplay against a champion. Jinx is not hard to bully in lane early, especially if she tries too hard to bully you as her early game mana costs are worse than most other ADCs.

ABlueQuakerApr 22, 20151 votes

tbh her Q just needs a less proportional scaling arch so that the first few ranks of it do very little and then the last 2 ramp up to its current rank 5 strength.

I'd even suggest doing this to the point that maxing W first is the more viable skill order.

GallowgrimApr 22, 20151 votes

AP scalings on Marksmen = bad.

TenSlashTenApr 22, 20151 votes

make jinx ult single target. Max jinx ult not do percentage damage.

K problem solved.

Glitter SpitterApr 22, 20151 votes

yea crits are getting old really fast, ever since IE became the must has item for adc's

metaworldpeace10Apr 22, 20151 votes

This nerf is in the right direction, but it won't solve the core issue with Jinx. The main problem with her is her scaling curve is wonky as fuck. She has too strong and too safe of an early game for as strong of a late game that she has. Look at Vayne for example, she's a strong late game hyper carry, but has a really tough laning phase. She also lacks wave clear, but makes up for it for being the best dueling ADC in the game. The difference between jinx and vayne? Vayne has tradeoffs, Jinx does not.

aperson1Apr 22, 20151 votes

Make Jinx's rocket explosions able to deal damage to herself.

This will separate the good Jinxes from the great Jinxes.

XeroKimoApr 22, 20151 votes

"We thought jinx was a little to powerful during the laning phase,

So for this patch we changed her fishbones from an auto attack to a skill shot,

We believe this will add counter play and separate the good jinxs from the

great jinxes"

4nth0l0gyApr 22, 20151 votes

I do actually like the ult changes, I think they'll make her a lot less snowbally without negatively impacting her role as a hypercarry.

That being said, the change I would PREFER is an increased mana cost per Fishbones auto. AOE autos at 700 range are REALLY strong for an ADC, and I think the mana cost (and thus the time during which you are able to use Fishbones) should reflect that.

Double RainbowApr 22, 20151 votes

It's already quite expensive in laning phase. Later it's no problem, sure, but increasing it's cost would mean much harder lane for Jinx.

4nth0l0gyApr 22, 20152 votes

Maybe increase the cost at later levels? Having it at a flat 20 isn't very taxing at all later on.

Double RainbowApr 26, 20151 votes

But she is supposed to be snowball champion. If she would have to be mini gun range most of the time, she would be in too much risk - and as you know, she has no escape. If you want to do that, you would have to buff her mini gun range.

SgtCrispyApr 22, 20151 votes

Instead of changing Jinx's ult, Jinx's rocket launcher (fishbones) is no longer able to crit on all targets in blast radius, only the target Jinx targets.

Please Rito I beg of you, do this. And then slap the person who thought that AOE 700 range crits was a good idea.

T RexHasLongLegsApr 22, 20151 votes

So you ask what this will do, and I think we will have to wait and see. It has the potential to shift the way jinx can react to ganks and maybe make her easier to camp in the landing phase without risk of getting turned around on since it reduces the upfront burst in close quarters. That may not change much, but jg may find a way to abuse it. We will see I guess.

Unironic SJWApr 22, 20151 votes

This nerf is perfect (and I'm an ADC main who plays a lot of Jinx).

The problem with Jinx is that she has MASSIVE kill pressure in lane at level 6 because of how strong her ultimate is in duels, and her ult was never supposed to be a dueling tool, it's supposed to be a global skillshot to:

Execute fleeing opponents
Snipe low health targets from far away
Assist in teamfights that Jinx is too far from

Her current ult pretty much guarantees a double kill from a good all in (and that's why she's so strong with Leona/Naut/etc) especially because her passive, E and a well aimed W will ensure you don't get away. After the nerf, you have to be more careful with your exchanges, because you can't use R to swing a close fight, which means she's more vulnerable in fights to dangerous laners like Graves or Vayne's level 6 dueling powerspike (Vy.

Hypercarries are supposed to have shaky laning phases and the nerf pretty much does that. Better this than nerfing what makes her a hypercarry which is her Fishbones poke that she can swap into minigun DPS when needed.