When do we adress the Champs/Classes that got left in the dust?

Eedat··5 votes·672 views

So earlier this season we had the Tank class update. The aim of this updated was to remove power from tank items to avoid these "tank" builds (Ekko, FIzz, Yas, etc) from cropping up while adding the loss directly back into Tanks' kits to compensated. To this extent, it was actually very successful. Lots of tanks became strong while these annoying "tank" builds disappeared.

Well..... when I say "successful" what I really mean is that it was very successful for the Tanks that actually their compensation buffs. Those that didnt have been left in the dust Poppy Nautilus

The problem doesnt quite end there, however. There are quite a few different classes of Melee fighters that would build just one or two damage items then build tank items to function properly. Skirmishers, Divers, Juggies, etc. These classes were just as reliant on these tank items, but never received any compensation. These classes have been left to rot and its quite obvious that as a whole, they are very weak.

Not to mention that the solution for draintanking was to introduce this thing item 3076 which as a side effect practically negates a bunch of these champions as a whole. Bramble Vest has actually pushed Aatrox to extinction. It severely cripples a lot of others like Volibear DrMundo Trundle Illaoi Irelia Mordekaiser OlafDarius Fiora Renekton XinZhao Udyr. Sure, there are some champs that people dont like in there. But if you look at the overall amount of damage it's done you cant claim that it was worth it just to annoy Fiora, for example. There are 3 champions (although admittedly not "good" by any means beforehand) that have been pretty much removed from the game because of this item Aatrox Volibear Udyr

If you want another example of how devastating this item was to certain champs, let's look at DrMundo. The patch after item 3076 was introduced, Mundo received some really large buffs to his E. Did those buffs make Mundo viable again? Did it make him even slightly better overall? No.... he is still trash because his opponent can now just build item 3076 to completely shut him down in lane and in fights.

item 3123 was bad enough. item 3076 was just complete overkill. At least with item 3123 it builds into an item that not only do a lot of champs not even want, but is super inefficient until like a 4th item if at all depending on the comp.

I'm not trying to pin this all on one item because there are a bunch of other Divers that feel absolutely god awful to play right now that arent directly impacted too much by it like Hecarim Vi MonkeyKing. I just feel its made enough of a splash to warrant it's own response.

So a few suggestions would have to be some direct buffs to champs themselves to compensate them for the tank item nerfs. They're long overdue at this point and probably should have been rolled out from the very start. Second, I think removing the GW from Bramble and only having it on the completely Thornmail is more than fair. Tanks can still have their GW easily before they have to really start dealing with ADCs in teamfights and it stops this '900g first back haha you're no longer a champion' crap thats happening in Top Lane.

There's a lot of other factors that contribute to these classes being bad right now, but I think some compensation for the tank items nerfs would be a good place to start

21 Comments

Brotha7 votes

Ok, you have very little understanding of the champions you listed. Just because they have a healing component of their kit does not mean item 3076 becomes an auto win. Without grievous wounds, sustain champs become god tier. Obviously as a Warwick, that would rock but it's unfair for everyone else.

Champions that Bramble Vest hurts the most: Because these champions heavily rely on sustain as a part of their kit from lvl 1-2+ Aatrox Tryndamere Volibear Warwick Soraka

Champions that bramble vest tones down: These champions have a sustain component of their kit that is complemented by items. You can cut their sustain ability just by keeping them underfarmed. Olaf XinZhao DrMundo Illaoi Mordekaiser Darius

Champions Bramble really doesn't do much to: These champions sustain is very minor or added mostly as an after thought/items. Fiora Hecarim Irelia Udyr

Bramble is a blessing for dealing with adcs who build two crit items and then BOTRK or DD. Bramble is also a blessing for dealing with high sustain champs, but by no means does it completely remove their ability to sustain.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Aatrox is getting a full scale rework since hes been garbo for many a season now. Poppy and Naut were overnerfed because they dared to go botlane and kill the adc. I would like to see both of them back in the meta as they are very fun to play with and against.

Eedat3 votes

Without grievous wounds, sustain champs become god tier.

What are you even talking about? Most of these champs were trash both before and after Bramble. Having sustain did not make them "God Tier". Your point makes no sense at all.

Theres a thing called balance. A champion can have sustain, but not too much sustain. The mere fact of them hang sustain does not ihenrently make them OP. Just because your main might need some tuning after the changes does not justify the damage the item has done. Please take a second to step back and look at it from an unbiased viewpoint instead of how it directly affects your main and nothing else.

I literally said Bramble does not affect Hecarim much. No idea why you mentioned that as your point. How the hell Bramble affects Soraka the most I have absolutely NO idea. Why are you autoing a tank as Soraka in the middle of a teamfight? What? As far as some of these other champs that you claim arent affected as much like Fiora DrMundo Illaoi Irelia I think you need to take a look back through their entire kits because It's obviously you who has "very little understanding of the champions" that youre talking about

Brotha5 votes

{quoted}

Please take a second to step back and look at it from an unbiased viewpoint instead of how it directly affects your main and nothing else.

You realize that if I had a bias, it would be against item 3076 since it is a component of the number one item counter in the game for me. You clearly do not understand how bias works.

That said, item 3076 has duel components. The first is reflective magic damage against auto attacks. Therefore champions that are auto frequently are hurt by this item. The second component is grievous wounds. The 3 second (?) application of grievous wounds per auto attack hurts sustain based champions and weakens their dueling power. Therefore it should be common knowledge that auto attack champions that rely on heavy sustain to win duels are the most affected by this item. Illaoi relies on abilities more than auto attacks to get off her damage. While the healing is cut from her tentacle slams she is not auto attacking so frequently that the magic reflect is hurting her as badly as it would Aatrox for example. Mundo pops his ult and typical disengages until he is back up to full, he is also an example of a tank that relies more on abilities than auto attacks so once against, minimal reflective damage. Irelia simply does not have the sustain levels from her W passive that make it a noticeable hit.

Eedat3 votes

Illaoi's W literally is an auto attack that she needs to use to use her Tentacles/Ult

Like I said, please go back and read through what these champs do

dunder kill3 votes

Champions that Bramble Vest hurts the most:

Soraka

Lulwut? I mean if by "hurts the most" you actually mean "hurts the least"

Zero Drive3 votes

{quoted}

Lulwut? I mean if by "hurts the most" you actually mean "hurts the least"

You sure do like posting in a lot of the same threads as Eedat. Especially when people disagree with him. :)

dunder kill4 votes

Yeah its almost like we're friends or something. Weird. Wukongs gotta stick together. Even if he is a filthy jungle monkey player instead of a glorious Mid Wukong main

Eedat4 votes

Wasting your time. He's not going to grasp the concept of friends

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Zero Drive4 votes

{quoted}

Yeah its almost like we're friends or something.

So basically he cries about people disagreeing with his post on the boards and you rush to the thread to make it seem like his opinions hold water. That's embarassing.

dunder kill3 votes

Yeah so much worse than people who have 5 accounts they use to to upvote and downvote things they agree or disagree with.

Maybe you should try making some friends sometime

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Zero Drive3 votes

{quoted}

Yeah so much worse than people who have 5 accounts they use to to upvote and downvote things they agree or disagree with.

Maybe you should try making some friends sometime

[slayer-jinx-wink]

I'm actually not completely sure you're not Eedat's second account considering the similarity between your OP.GG's and the fact you haven't played a game together in months.

SSJ Blue Wukong3 votes

[deleted]

Zero Drive3 votes

[{quoted}](name=SSJ Blue Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jm1E3QUf,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-14T21:14:24.100+0000)

Well you would be wrong because this is my (Eedat's) second account. Kind of hard to play together seeing how we both cant play Monkeyman

Maybe one of you could play janna, that seems to be both of your back up champions. Like you said on your other account, people on this board have 5-6 accounts. Since you've been playing since s5 is it hard to believe you have three accounts, one back up level 30 and this level 17 one you haven't gotten around to capping? :) oh well enjoy shit posting in gameplay.

dunder kill1 votes

He told me to play Janna when I get autofiled because shes braindead easy lol

Eedat2 votes

Nice try. I didnt say that. He did

dunder kill2 votes

Ew. I'm a glorious sololane Monkey master race and he's a filthy jungle Monkey main

AirKingNeo1 votes

Because assuming things without evidence is exactly what we should do in the world for no reason?

AirKingNeo1 votes

Bramble Vest is an auto win.

Is every pro suddenly wrong?

Somebody Love Me1 votes

They buffed Fiora because Bramble destroyed her lane phase.

Thats Karma5 votes

Did you just choose random champions that have self healing? This feels like a bait thread.[sg-ahri-2]

AirKingNeo1 votes

The entire bruiser class has healing and is balanced around it.

[sg-ahri-2]

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