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I want to understand how this is possible and How a champ should fight against this(need advice)

N3mO06··3 votes·875 views

Can someone help me to undestand how an Irelia can kill a Rengar when Irelia has just trinity and ninja tabi, she is 2/9/8 140 cs at lv 13, while rengar is 6/4/6 with Hydra, Ghostblade, Warrior lv 14 with 100 cs? Rengar had something like 11 k gold and irelia something like 9k. The thing that I can not understand is how she could kill him while for more the half fight rengar was stunned. The question that comes to my mind is: But Irelia really pays to have played really badly the early? From what I've seen (it was a match between high diamonds) the answer is no. There was no chance: rengar was stunned right after the jump and during the stun with 4 AA a Q and half R, Irelia killed him. Am I wrong or is there something wrong? This seems to me a great injustice. She has built dps but was naturally enough tanky to resist to the initial burst of rengar and she had enough dps to kill him (although rengar's w) during the stun( and so also with enough utility to bloch the enamy without a so great skill, just point and click) This should be normal? Thank anyone help me to understand how the events are and when I can engage Irelia, because how I saw, even 2/9/8 she is able to kill some carry under stun

Edit: some sources https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr3bdy8OC74 objectively she kills Graves although clearly behind

I know, a lots of downvote are coming, but I hope that at least someone help me to deal with her as topper or as adc

28 Comments

FHMarshy3 votes

First of all, you have to realize that after the early game, aka mid to late game, Rengar either one shots squishies or become useless. Rengar was never designed to duel in the late game. On the other side, Irelia is one of the best dueler in game as the game progess.

If Rengar wasn't able to one shot Irelia, she can then proceed to stun, life steal and out duel him.

Rengar relies on his full combo in one shot to burts an enemy to death or very close to it and finish off with an auto or two, while Irelia has her E to stun/slow, W to heal up per hit and an ult that heals her massively.

One thing i want to point out is that Although irelia only had 2 kills, but she had 8 assists. Although assists do not grant full kill gold, 50% of the full gold would be divided between all that participated in the kill. If all her 8 assists were duo kills only,(meaning only her and another team mate were part of the kill) she would received half the gold of the kill. So Irelia was part of 10 kills and Rengar was part of 12. Irelia really wasn't THAT behind on the income.

Last thing I was to say is that Irelia really peaks once she hits lvl 11 while Rengar peaked at lvl 6. The additional heal and damage on Irelia's ult is a lot more effective than the additional vision radius and movement speed on rengar's ult level up.

Hope that helps.

N3mO061 votes

{quoted}

First of all, you have to realize that after the early game, aka mid to late game, Rengar either one shots squishies or become useless. Rengar was never designed to duel in the late game. On the other side, Irelia is one of the best dueler in game as the game progess.

If Rengar wasn't able to one shot Irelia, she can then proceed to stun, life steal and out duel him.

Rengar relies on his full combo in one shot to burts an enemy to death or very close to it and finish off with an auto or two, while Irelia has her E to stun/slow, W to heal up per hit and an ult that heals her massively.

One thing i want to point out is that Although irelia only had 2 kills, but she had 8 assists. Although assists do not grant full kill gold, 50% of the full gold would be divided between all that participated in the kill. If all her 8 assists were duo kills only,(meaning only her and another team mate were part of the kill) she would received half the gold of the kill. So Irelia was part of 10 kills and Rengar was part of 12. Irelia really wasn't THAT behind on the income.

Last thing I was to say is that Irelia really peaks once she hits lvl 11 while Rengar peaked at lvl 6. The additional heal and damage on Irelia's ult is a lot more effective than the additional vision radius and movement speed on rengar's ult level up.

Hope that helps.

Ty for your answer. Total gold difference was about 3k, an item, but You are right when you said that rengar isn't a dueler. What about the graver in the video? his only mistake was to not have any defensive items?

FHMarshy1 votes

Graver in the video? are you referring to the riot cinematics? lmfao

And ya 3k is an Item. With Rengar that much ahead, he should probably have tried other squishier targets like the APC or ADC instead of Irelia.

Irelia with the armor from Ninja tabi and the health from tri force is durable enough to survive Rengar's intial burst with at least probably 20% health, and at which she can E stun him and proceed to duel. One thing you have to also note is that Rengar actually didn't have that much AD going. Hydra provides amazing wave clear and team fight presence, ghost blade gives him some armPen and nice attack speed, and warrior provides him with armpen. But since he is dueling One single irelia, Hydra's passive really doesn't help at all and with ninja tabi, she receives reduced damage per auto from Rengar, rendering ghostblade's active useless too.

If he'd picked up an blood thirster instead of yomus, he'd probably had a better change XD

Sona Ping1 votes

What about the graver in the video? his only mistake was to not have any defensive items?

No, his mistake was that he was playing cocky and aggressively used his escape to dash into melee range when he was playing a ranged champion. A ranged champion that was likely built in a such way that does not allow him to take any damage. He just played that so colossally dumb.

That Graves simply killed himself; it doesn't matter how many kills you have when you make yourself take a pounding and the strategy you chose requires you not to take damage.

Sona Ping2 votes

Because Rengar played that very poorly. Rengar should be punished for his mistakes as well.

N3mO061 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JlqnhN1V,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-07T18:53:53.039+0000)

Because Rengar played that very poorly. Rengar should be punished for his mistakes as well.

rengar is punished for his mistakes. just a 3 sec delay on a ult, which is very important for him, is a great punishment

Sona Ping1 votes

{quoted}

rengar is punished for his mistakes. just a 3 sec delay on a ult, which is very important for him, is a great punishment

Yes and? You know, that is a statement not a reason, right? Unless you are trying to tell me that Rengar ulted while fighting Irelia. In which case, he deserved to die.

Trash MammaI2 votes

Rengar jumps on Irelia Rengar doesn't 1 shot Irelia Rengar gets stunned by Irelia Irelia unleashes a devastating combo of her W Q R with AA's tied in somewhere against the Rengar with 0 defensive items

It's pretty simple actually.

N3mO061 votes

[{quoted}](name=Simple Tora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JlqnhN1V,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-07T19:01:01.180+0000)

Rengar jumps on Irelia Rengar doesn't 1 shot Irelia Rengar gets stunned by Irelia Irelia unleashes a devastating combo of her W Q R with AA's tied in somewhere against the Rengar with 0 defensive items

It's pretty simple actually.

the problem is why irelia has so much naturally tankyness without items to resist to rengar's burst and still has enough dps and utility to kill him ?

BluePolarizer3 votes

Where's her natural tankiness other than a small heal and higher base stats?

Tabi mitigates a HUGE amount of Rengar's burst. With base armor + Tabi, Rengar's damage output is almost cut in half. If Rengar fails to 1 shot Irelia (which he will fail due to Tabis + Triforce 250 HP) then Rengar is dead.

The moral of the story here: know your champion. Know its role. Rengar doesn't assassinate bruisers or tanks. He goes for squishies.

N3mO061 votes

{quoted}

Where's her natural tankiness other than a small heal and higher base stats?

Tabi mitigates a HUGE amount of Rengar's burst. With base armor + Tabi, Rengar's damage output is almost cut in half. If Rengar fails to 1 shot Irelia (which he will fail due to Tabis + Triforce 250 HP) then Rengar is dead.

The moral of the story here: know your champion. Know its role. Rengar doesn't assassinate bruisers or tanks. He goes for squishies.

Ok, do you see the video? What is wrong with Graves ? He was //3 against an 1/8 Irelia

Trash MammaI1 votes

If you're struggling vs Irelia so much that you're doing this much whining just buy a frozen heart..

N3mO061 votes

{quoted}

Where's her natural tankiness other than a small heal and higher base stats?

Tabi mitigates a HUGE amount of Rengar's burst. With base armor + Tabi, Rengar's damage output is almost cut in half. If Rengar fails to 1 shot Irelia (which he will fail due to Tabis + Triforce 250 HP) then Rengar is dead.

The moral of the story here: know your champion. Know its role. Rengar doesn't assassinate bruisers or tanks. He goes for squishies.

Statistics based in fact

BluePolarizer2 votes

what statistics? I gave you the statistics lol. Irelia's kit gives her more base damage than Rengar. Rengar built glass. Irelia has 500 more effective health than Rengar while her base damage isn't mitigated by Rengar's kit at all. Rengar also made huge mistakes. What more do you need to know?

BIue Monk2 votes

Better nerf Irelia.

Brimaz The King1 votes

She had 40 more cs than rengar. That's almost 2 kills. So all he really has was one level higher than her. Plus she had a tri force it's one of the strongs items in game.

N3mO061 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brimaz The King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JlqnhN1V,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-07T19:02:05.161+0000)

She had 40 more cs than rengar. That's almost 2 kills. So all he really has was one level higher than her. Plus she had a tri force it's one of the strongs items in game.

ok, but trinity can not deal with 3 items, or this happen only on irelia and maybe this is wrong

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

You ask for an answer but refute everything everyone is saying. The answer is clear to me. Rengar wanted to faceroll and did not respect the irelia.

Its just a matter of skill really.

N3mO061 votes

{quoted}

You ask for an answer but refute everything everyone is saying. The answer is clear to me. Rengar wanted to faceroll and did not respect the irelia.

Its just a matter of skill really.

I'm not refuting, I'm just having an healthy discussion to understand how to react against Irelia and if what this champ is able to do is right

The Rewritten1 votes

Rengar tried to duel against Irelia.

Irelia is better at dueling.

There's not much else to comprehend.

N3mO061 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brimaz The King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JlqnhN1V,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-07T19:02:05.161+0000)

She had 40 more cs than rengar. That's almost 2 kills. So all he really has was one level higher than her. Plus she had a tri force it's one of the strongs items in game.

ok, but total gold difference is about 3 k and a lv. How An irelian can beat a rengar with a lv behind and 3k gold less?

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

Rengar did not repect irelia's kit. U can go all in like that on an irelia. She is designed to fight 1v1.

N3mO061 votes

{quoted}

Rengar did not repect irelia's kit. U can go all in like that on an irelia. She is designed to fight 1v1.

So she will always win 1v1 even if she has committed many mistakes in early?

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

I did not see the game itself so arguing that she did or did not make mistakes is pointless.

Having 9 deaths can mean alot: ganked under tower. Focused in teamfights. Or just being careless.

Point is Irelia has a very powerful kit that lets her 1v1, she has sustain and a wee bit of cc.

If rengar did build as a glass canon and got cocky, that also hallens to be a mistake.

Irelia had ninja tabi, which reduces rengar's dmg (by a percentage mind you) and trinity which she can proc several times within a single ability rotation. I'm not sure if every one of her 4 Ult charges will proc tri but if it does, it would only reenforce my point.

Conclusion: rengar should have waited for an ally or for irelia to spend her stun/slow on a minion if she ever would have.

Hayaishi21 votes

When 2 dumb champions fight one another the dumbest one wins.

N3mO061 votes

{quoted}

When 2 dumb champions fight one another the dumbest one wins.

Something is bound to happen.

Señor Karthus1 votes

Irelia punishes you if you are winning against her. It is a really frustrating and not fun Champion to play against that needs a rework.

Guyy Fieri1 votes

Irelia is a fighter. She excels in long trades and long, sustained damage. Rengar is an assasin and excels in one shotting people with high burst damage. As Rengar, if you use your combo and don't kill Irelia, odds are good that if you stick around, she will win the fight because of her ability to put out more damage over a longer time frame. Not to mention, once you use your combo, Irelia is sure to stun you because of her E.

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