Remembering when a full clear was an option

Dukues··48 votes·2,311 views

I remember when full clearing your jungle used to be an option. Man those were the days. Not saying I usually did a full early clear, but there was the option to do so if you chose to. Sadly those days are gone. Yea I can go watch streamers such as IWDominate play jungle. Generally he gets some nice clears in. Maybe a gank or 2 by 6-7 mins depending on the game. Hell sometimes he won't have more than like 1 assist before 10 mins. Damn do I envy that. I envy having jungle options. I envy not having to gank by level 3 to have a fighting chance. Hell I miss not having the option to gank by level 3 because the enemy might actually ward. I miss having to think in the jungle and throughout the game.

Now I just sit desperately trying to gank as much as possible because even starting a jungle camp pretty much = teammate starting a fight they cannot win or about to be ganked and you need to be there. I guess it does work out if you get a successful gank and then just force yourself to do a camp or two even knowing another lane is about to die.

Sigh. I miss having jungle options. I thought part of the nerf to jungle was to allow for more junglers and to relieve early gank pressure? Well.... it completely back fired in low elo. Maybe its working in high elo as intended but sadly low elo didn't get the memo. Jungling has literally become who can get a few gank kills first. There really isn't much strategy after that. And just spamming meta junglers.

I also miss mid to late game metas rather than the early game meta we currently have as it really compounds this problem in low elo.

38 Comments

devdev46311 votes

You can still do full clears, but it really depends on the situation. You can't just mindless farm in today's jungle, you actually need good macro play.

Dukues15 votes

define good macro play because all I see now is LeeSin walks and ganks top. Then moves to mid, then to bot. Somehow no one sees it or expects it coming. #outjungled. If your only option is to gank or counter gank it doesn't exactly increase the strategy to jungling.

53016 votes

You forgot the option: counterjungling

As in steal camps when Lee shows up on the opposite side of the map. This way he'll fall behind in XP so you can at least make yourself useful

Doing this isn't unique to my main. Lee, Graves, Ivern, Kha, etc. do this too

Troll for Trump6 votes

It doesn't work, because of how powerful Lee is early. You can counterjgl, but he'll easily catch you. Even if you see him coming with vision, he's much more mobile than most jglers. Unless you have a really fast clear, it's really risky.

He just does everything so fast; by the time you see him bot side with full hp and go to his red side, everything's gone except for Krugs. So you end up wasting even more time on his Krugs than if you'd gone and done something else.

He's one of the champs with enough power that he doesn't even have to farm to stay ahead of you, and just rely on kill xp and leaching off laner cs. It's annoying.

It's like a Lee standard. If your champ can't handle Lee, don't bother picking him, because with that pick rate, you'll likely go against him.

That's why you ban him.

He just shuts down so many jglers, it's annoying.

Dukues2 votes

[{quoted}](name=tyIer fking l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JlMfGIkL,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-06-02T20:58:32.263+0000)

You forgot the option: counterjungling

As in steal camps when Lee shows up on the opposite side of the map. This way he'll fall behind in XP so you can at least make yourself useful

Doing this isn't unique to my main. Lee, Graves, Ivern, Kha, etc. do this too

idk man.... I mean I totally agree with that in season 6 but.... all I see now is I go and counter gank while enemy jungler ganks. Even if they don't get a kill just chill in lane and get some cs they get more xp than me..... I LITERALLY was 2 levels ahead of enemy jungler earlier just shitting on them. I was lvl 6 they were 4. I go do like one thing while they like i don't even know.. walk into a lane and maybe trade in a fight or something. Next thing I know their also level 6.... This catch up and lane xp vs jungling is really annoying. Last season when I got a 2 lvl lead ahead of enemy jungler it was over. I was going to dominate them. This season? Honestly doesn't really seem to matter.... if they just spend 1 min covering a lane even if I counter jungle a few camps we still get even xp and they generally catch up so I never really feel I have a large level lead. At least compared to season 6 where you could see a huge xp difference in junglers.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

Back in season 3 putting the enemy jungler behind was actually a viable strategy. You'd get one level on them and then just take all their camps for 10 minutes while they struggled. In season 4 jungle xp got a rubberband mechanic to stop that, to the extent that counterjungling is a waste of time because they dont stay behind for more than a minute. Kindred and Ivern are basically proof of this; if counterjungling was worthwhile we wouldn't need champs designed around it.

-a salty former nunu main

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Right now jungler's focus is typically orientated towards mid. At least that's what Midbeast and watching Faker/Apdo's gameplay told me.

Fisher No Chains9 votes

Remember when you could literally play Karma jungle and still succeed because of that great purple smite?

That item was just great imo. Jungle diversity was a thing and slow-clear junglers had the same chance of Lee/Elise to gank without getting behind.

UnboundHades4 votes

purple smite the strongest counter to zac passive to ever exist

Fisher No Chains4 votes

Well, they could just change it so it worked on a single blob instead of dealing AoE damage to non-monsters. I'd pay to have that back.

UnboundHades5 votes

I loved purple smite it basically allowed any champ with any form of ganking power to jg without falling 4 levels behind

Faustavian1 votes

Yeah, it was pretty nice, however the only qualm I had about it was that certain junglers who have Early AoE/CC could clear so much faster than others who relied on Purple, and gank more often for it.

PePsiLemoNN4 votes

While giving Shyvana LeeSin etc even better clears making them unstoppable , sure.

lulusmeatwallet1 votes

i love shyvana!

Fisher No Chains7 votes

Lee is just a special snowflake and wards > better clear imo.

As for Shyvana, I'd rather fight her than Graves tbh.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Remember when you could literally play Karma jungle and still succeed because of that great purple smite?

That item was just great imo. Jungle diversity was a thing and slow-clear junglers had the same chance of Lee/Elise to gank without getting behind.

Jungle Karma is still a thing. Her W affecting monsters is fantastic.

Fisher No Chains2 votes

Except that her first clear is painful. :/

Back then you could clear without your W and it was so good. Man I miss shooting RQ for half health from the jungle. :(

NinjaGuy695 votes

One of the main reasons I switched from jungle to mid was because if you weren't Lee Sin/Graves/Ivern/Kha'zix/Elise, then you're probably going to have a bad time clearing your jungle and your impact on the lanes would be diminished.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

nice table5 votes

i guess you "not thinking" in jungle is why you are low elo, the situation in jungle got a lot better with the recent adjustments and there is a lot of different shit you can do now.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER3 votes

Well let's be honest the real reason the jungle was reworked was because Riot didn't want to spend another year dealing with Nidalee, they even said they wanted to remove power farming as an option in a video.

Dukues4 votes

Its been awhile now but I thought they spewed some bs about "not wanting laners to always worry about early lane pressure" or some bs in their preseason video. I thought "ah yea that makes sense". But now all I see is people being constantly ganked and then watching that jungle snowball while maybe killing a couple camps once in awhile. Then all I think is "welp.... looks like their plan went really well".

But then you watch high elo streams and it doesn't seem much different. But then I enter a silver game and getting out jungled is literally now becuase you don't gank enough. But enough is literally every 30 seconds to a minute. Where before I could gank a fair amount but also farm and come out ahead of the idiot other jungles who only ganked. But now I end up behind in levels and team gold because all the other jungler did was gank even when half were failed. They really missed the mark in my eyes. But maybe its working well in high elo. But if true then its back to the same bs of "how to cheese to quickly cilmb" which is dumb when you actually want to work on learning the game and doing more than just a couple things.

Anhartamin2 votes

[deleted]

Dukues3 votes

a few apparently.

I honestly don't want to brain dead farm, I just don't want to have to gank 24/7 either. At least before there was the option to brain dead farm if you really wanted to. Now it's not even an option. I like when there is a balance between needing/wanting to gank but not having to only do that.

Farming helped a lot last season so you didn't only have to focus ganks and objectives. But now its not as important so people skip farming and are more focused on ganking and objectives. Which turns into huge snowballing in low elo. Be nice having to think about more than just "want lane to gank next". I know counterjungling is supposed to be important but.... feels pretty damn useless this season at least in low elo. I don't really notice any gains just... "welp while I took enemy red bot lane died again to the very obvious and pinged out gank guess I should have just sat bot and waited to counter gank". Its literally mental.

SirLapse1 votes

Actually I've punished people and been punished for trying to assume I can gank at any given point in time. You need to be clearing at least 2 camps every back after the first, or you'll find behind as the enemy outscales. This is of course if you aren't taxing your laners for 0 reason.

Rock MD2 votes

Low elo has always been like that because there are so many more misplays and simply more raw kills.

So if you get someone snowballing before the enemy team, and both their other lanes go even, you almost always win.

Faustavian2 votes

Nocturne Literally slurping on your frustration. Doesn't even need a leash, and can full clear, back for Tiamat, and do it again if he so pleases.

TimX24968B1 votes

I just picked him up im tryin to learn him now hes super fun

Dukues1 votes

Guess I will just go back to playing a carry jungle. Don't really want to but depending on teammates currently is too hit or miss. I mean... obviously you need to try and work with teammates and play off them but player skill ranges so random right now better to try and hard carry.

I will miss you graggyice. Maybe one day if I make it back to mid gold we can play again. Not that it's high elo but teamwork actually starts to matter and that's where you shine.

Gragas Gragas Gragas Gragas Gragas Gragas

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

Sorry to burst your bubble but there's no teamwork here

lulusmeatwallet1 votes

just play shyvana and be the old stacking nasus version of the jungle. you will be fine.

Rakdos Cackler1 votes

I never got to experience 'full clear jungling' in it's glory, as I've only started to be... aware? as of last year's preseason. I kinda wish I knew.

LawUrDepravdHart1 votes

{quoted}

I remember when full clearing your jungle used to be an option. Man those were the days. Not saying I usually did a full early clear, but there was the option to do so if you chose to. Sadly those days are gone. Yea I can go watch streamers such as IWDominate play jungle. Generally he gets some nice clears in. Maybe a gank or 2 by 6-7 mins depending on the game. Hell sometimes he won't have more than like 1 assist before 10 mins. Damn do I envy that. I envy having jungle options. I envy not having to gank by level 3 to have a fighting chance. Hell I miss not having the option to gank by level 3 because the enemy might actually ward. I miss having to think in the jungle and throughout the game.

Now I just sit desperately trying to gank as much as possible because even starting a jungle camp pretty much = teammate starting a fight they cannot win or about to be ganked and you need to be there. I guess it does work out if you get a successful gank and then just force yourself to do a camp or two even knowing another lane is about to die.

Sigh. I miss having jungle options. I thought part of the nerf to jungle was to allow for more junglers and to relieve early gank pressure? Well.... it completely back fired in low elo. Maybe its working in high elo as intended but sadly low elo didn't get the memo. Jungling has literally become who can get a few gank kills first. There really isn't much strategy after that. And just spamming meta junglers.

I also miss mid to late game metas rather than the early game meta we currently have as it really compounds this problem in low elo.

There ARE options, but you may just not know about them. For example, instead of asking your bot lane to leash have you tried starting at your raptors>red>wolves>blue>gromp? Champions like Gragas and zac can easily take this route and end with enough hp to gank.

Why is this route a good idea? You will hit lvl 4 off of 5 camps instead of 6. How is that possible? Watch dopa's jungle route video on graves so he can explain it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EePGQji8GOE

More importantly, taking this route will be surprising to many low elo players because they are used to the standard "bot leash at buff" jungle start every game. They will not expect and will not ward against your lvl 4 gank in the bot lane.

Dukues1 votes

Hey thanks for the link. It helped a lot. Sadly I only watched part but I feel it helped me focus which got me back into gold. I realized I am really bad at doing first clears... I tried his clear with gragas many times and I can't do it effectively. But at least now I understand more about jungle experience. But I will watch the rest and continue to try and improve on my early jungling. I think first 10 mins are my biggest weakness in jungle and if I can step up my first 10 mins I could probably rank up a little higher.

BoilTheOil1 votes

yea krugs and raptors are such a pain to kill this season

Jaygo411 votes

I've found jungle creeps haven't mattered more than this season. LEVELS ARE SO IMPORTANT. Trading a kill for a quadrant of the jungle is about equal honestly, maybe even favoring the counterjungler.

FilDaFunk1 votes

You should tell that to the junglers I've been getting recently.

6Sfool1 votes

Yorick Blue- wolves- gromp- enemy red- enemy jungler- enemy top I do a full clear.

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