Now the only way to get extra wards is to buy a support item, and no one wants to place a control ward everywhere, or I should say, be limited to a control ward. Plus challenging smites going away, leaving only chilling smite... So now the only champs that will have a great time, are counter junglers or early game junglers (with the exception of Lee Sin who Riot is murdering if this goes through...)
Jamaree5 votesYeah, because when you have everything in your kit, one of your tools getting slightly weaker will just murder you.
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votesYeah, because when you have everything in your kit, one of your tools getting slightly weaker will just murder you.
The main tool of your kit
Jamaree1 votesThe main tool of your kit
Yeah, his jump, the thing Lee Sins universally level last is the main tool of his kit. Not his execute engage, not his reveal aoe slow skill and not his move that gave him a name sake mechanic, his ward jump is his main skill...really?
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votesYeah, his jump, the thing Lee Sins universally level last is the main tool of his kit. Not his execute engage, not his reveal aoe slow skill and not his move that gave him a name sake mechanic, his ward jump is his main skill...really?
You don't get around the map using resonating strike... You use safegaurd, no matter when you max it, it gets you to fights so you can use your q to go in, but now you aren't allowed to insec and o yeah, your now the enemy teams 30 gold dispenser, because unlike kayn and tanks Lee can't just walk in behind you under your tower to dragons rage you into his team, but no let's make it so he can only either buy a support item, or never pick up an oracle, that'll Nerf him like the people asked us to do
Jamaree2 votesYou don't get around the map using resonating strike... You use safegaurd, no matter when you max it, it gets you to fights so you can use your q to go in, but now you aren't allowed to insec and o yeah, your now the enemy teams 30 gold dispenser, because unlike kayn and tanks Lee can't just walk in behind you under your tower to dragons rage you into his team, but no let's make it so he can only either buy a support item, or never pick up an oracle, that'll Nerf him like the people asked us to do
Yeah you are, now you actually have to think about placing your ward, wow.
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votesYeah you are, now you actually have to think about placing your ward, wow.
If you don't play jungle you can't really go around saying"now you have to think" as though we didn't before
It's not even about the control ward in particular it's about the blatant fact that they are promoting early game junglers and junglers that rely on invading, if they made pink smite into just a control ward OPTION for junglers id be fine with it. But making 
have an easier time than he already did to walk in and your stuff is annoying. Meanwhile fiddle is going to get murdered for walking into his jungle, unless he is left alone early game... So only a handful of junglers are going to benefit for it. And without red smite other junglers are gonna get bodied by 
... So rip late game jungle...
BobaFlautist3 votesAnd nothing of value was lost.
Azadethe2 votesYou do realize this is a Lee exclusive problem, and Lee's been building 
as well. He can Zombie ward up a map, which is part of why Lee has been a pain recently. he effectively can self place 7 wards atm by taking other people's wards, and by placing his own.
And yeah. you can get a support item.
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votesYou do realize this is a Lee exclusive problem, and Lee's been building
And yeah. you can get a support item.
No insec plays allowed
No sejaunis sitting in a bush with her sweeper because waiting for one while you have vision around you is much different from having vision of one area exclusively, plus it means you'd have to sit on the control ward if you wanted actually wards if you're a tank, and it encourages .....
Hey let's reward and 
SPECIFICALLY, late game junglers be damned
This is the reason this should not happen, it makes it 100% a skill match up meaning everyone who gets stuck jungling is gonna get murdered by the jungle main and the better jungler tends to win
I'm not against skill match ups, but making everything revolve around invading makes it the most un-noobfriendly mechanic I've seen for a while (not including Zoe e and Aftershock on rammus....)
TheSandQrator2 votesOr, think of it this way.
"Hey, free control ward!" Denying the enemy team vision is as important as keeping up your own, which is why the Zombie Ward rune is super strong.
You mentioned Insec plays being one of the big things that gets hit by this, but I'm just sick of the "muh flashy plays" argument. Or rather, I'm sick of people thinking they're fly for doing something that's been pretty well-practiced for years, as opposed to the argument itself... So we'll leave that by the side.
I do feel for you when it feels like they're tearing out a part of a kit that you love. But last I checked you could Safeguard to Control Wards as easily as to other ones.
Challenging Smite was a problem in and of itself. It's been a big factor in why junglers have felt like massive forces in the game for a long while now. Bonus level-scaling true damage DoT on-hit, revealing them, and making them do 20% less damage to you? Yikes. It actually does more damage than Ignite, if you hit them at the start and then a couple seconds later!
Sure, having only one Control Ward does hurt a little bit in the immediate moment, but you get one back by counter-jungling, and taking a big creep in the enemy jungle. That's nuts!
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votesOr, think of it this way.
"Hey, free control ward!" Denying the enemy team vision is as important as keeping up your own, which is why the Zombie Ward rune is super strong.
You mentioned Insec plays being one of the big things that gets hit by this, but I'm just sick of the "muh flashy plays" argument. Or rather, I'm sick of people thinking they're fly for doing something that's been pretty well-practiced for years, as opposed to the argument itself... So we'll leave that by the side.
I do feel for you when it feels like they're tearing out a part of a kit that you love. But last I checked you could Safeguard to Control Wards as easily as to other ones.
Challenging Smite was a problem in and of itself. It's been a big factor in why junglers have felt like massive forces in the game for a long while now. Bonus level-scaling true damage DoT on-hit, revealing them, and making them do 20% less damage to you? Yikes. It actually does more damage than Ignite, if you hit them at the start and then a couple seconds later!
Sure, having only one Control Ward does hurt a little bit in the immediate moment, but you get one back by counter-jungling, and taking a big creep in the enemy jungle. That's nuts!
Great so you trade jungles, cuz why would they go to their jungle when they get stuff from yours and vice versa
Challenging smite was obnoxious but perfectly fair because 1 every lane either has cc, a better tool than chilling smite, ACTUAL combat summoners, ignite exists, and Vayne, fiora, and Zoe exist. Plus most junglers that take it either don't have, or have to meet a requirement to hard cc you, meaning that damage is what allows them to kill the adc before Morgana roots them in place for an eternity and then they v can't do anything because no hard cc unless your sejauni or shaco or have max ferocity or have xins knockup stacked and dash available..
Plus putting a control ward down to safegaurd in is like saying please accept my 30 gold donation to you kogmaw because he instantly cleared it
Plus as control wards (because of how control wards work) you can have 1 out at a Time so gl trying to keep eyes on objectives without laners help
TheSandQrator1 votesLosing out on the invisible wards is a huge thing you lose from this change, I'll wholly agree on, but goodness gracious you I can't really believe you said that Challenging Smite was fair.
You say 'trade jungles', I say 'free gank from mid and side lane'. It's inherently dangerous to try to do that, which is why you don't make a concentrated effort to clear out their jungle as opposed to yours, unless you're Nunu, or Ivern, hahah.
You upgraded your incredible objective control summoner spell into a multipurpose summoner spell that doesn't lose any effectiveness as an objective control tool, because of what you've picked.
The whole point of the jungler role for several years was to make use of one person to secure objectives and roam to get advantages throughout the map, and they'd given something to cement junglers as the key player in taking neutral objectives. Yeah, you'd lose out on direct power compared to what other laners have at their disposal because you don't need to be prepared for combat at a the turn of a dime. You lost out on tactical advantage to gain in strategic advantage.
You say that you don't have combat summoners but you do, you bought into it to have one of a couple, and it's being taken away now. You're losing out on your true damage DoT and damage reduction, but you've still got a true damage nuke which steals movement speed. That's arguably better, since they can't run away from the allies you really should have in place to capitalise on your movement.
I don't miss the days where junglers were supposed to have hard CC to shore up their laners' lack of it, or innately enough damage to outright kill someone, hell no. And I don't know what patch you're playing on, but 5.0AS Kog'maw hasn't been a thing for a long time. Even then you'd still have a whole 0.75s + projectile travel time (0.15s ~ 0.2s), to click where your mouse already was.
You're blowing things out of proportion. You're getting the other two combined into one and complaining that the one you liked isn't there anymore.
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votesLosing out on the invisible wards is a huge thing you lose from this change, I'll wholly agree on, but goodness gracious you I can't really believe you said that Challenging Smite was fair.
You say 'trade jungles', I say 'free gank from mid and side lane'. It's inherently dangerous to try to do that, which is why you don't make a concentrated effort to clear out their jungle as opposed to yours, unless you're Nunu, or Ivern, hahah.
You upgraded your incredible objective control summoner spell into a multipurpose summoner spell that doesn't lose any effectiveness as an objective control tool, because of what you've picked.
The whole point of the jungler role for several years was to make use of one person to secure objectives and roam to get advantages throughout the map, and they'd given something to cement junglers as the key player in taking neutral objectives. Yeah, you'd lose out on direct power compared to what other laners have at their disposal because you don't need to be prepared for combat at a the turn of a dime. You lost out on tactical advantage to gain in strategic advantage.
You say that you don't have combat summoners but you do, you bought into it to have one of a couple, and it's being taken away now. You're losing out on your true damage DoT and damage reduction, but you've still got a true damage nuke which steals movement speed. That's arguably better, since they can't run away from the allies you really should have in place to capitalise on your movement.
I don't miss the days where junglers were supposed to have hard CC to shore up their laners' lack of it, or innately enough damage to outright kill someone, hell no. And I don't know what patch you're playing on, but 5.0AS Kog'maw hasn't been a thing for a long time. Even then you'd still have a whole 0.75s + projectile travel time (0.15s ~ 0.2s), to click where your mouse already was.
You're blowing things out of proportion. You're getting the other two combined into one and complaining that the one you liked isn't there anymore.
Firstly I love how wards are now completely obsolete unless your support or keep the less useful wards because it definitely is nice that master yis now have to fight you out of their jungle, which usually, an early game you can't 1v1 sometime unless they have either better runes, or level advantage meaning level 4 you can take him Dirk in a 1v1 because he has no edge over most junglers that would invade.
Multipurpose? O I can ward 1 objective and slow people.... Great. Because I had no options for that at all....
.... Yeah no way to slow people such a shame.... That all important chilling smite o boi because there's no one who can slow them 
in the game already.... And the laners who have a natural level advantage are definitely gonna worry about a chilling smite when they have
... Yeah. very effective there, a mobile jungler slowing you... Yeah because they needed to do that... No taunts, dashes, or speed boosts anywhere
....
If that doesn't clarify why challenging smite worked let me clarify further
A xin jungle looking to gank mid will be 1 to 2 levels behind the enemy mid laner unless they got destroyed.
Now let's say it's a 
mid.
U shoot him he was away
Now lets say he's level 6 so your probably level 4-5 you dash in but the he R's you and w eq say ignite and your instantly dead. Or if he's low he just w's away as said before
Not to mention the slow is pretty weak.. for how long it lasts at least
Plus you only really need one control ward anyway, so now you want to make it exactly a thing of best jungler wins? A jungler is strong because they need I have an impact on the game, they are the most flamed players in the game because of the fact that everyone subconsciously acknowledges that the jungler could have a big impact on the game, so making traditional junglers not have their tools is like playing Talon mid with barrier.... What even is your purpose? It's not just the general dissatisfaction that this would be a huge nerf to Lee Sin, but also to any stealth jungler because now EVERY JUNGLER HAS TO GET control wards. Ivern is already a burden to deal with and now you want to reward him even more than you already did when you have him that sharing is caring passive?! No one's gonna take ignite out of the game even though that reduces healing and does true damage as well. So until a better argument presents itself rather than some "well I disliked junglers getting a mini ignite and having vision all over" excuses as to why this new smite is better, then the fact still stands, it's incredibly unfair to anyone who has to scale, or relied on wards throughout the map.
skoulker1 votesI do believe it allows you to place a ward?
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votesI do believe it allows you to place a ward?
A single control ward
lolipopevelynn3 votesA single control ward
That refill when u kill enemy canps...
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votesThat refill when u kill enemy canps...
That you can't use because, o right, it's a CONTROL ward so if you've used it on an objective and no one killed it, your forced to either keep the base wards, which sucks when you could buy a oracle and trackers to have better vision control in general. Plus have u ever considered some junglers don't invade the enemy jungle if they don't have to and this is only promoting junglers with stronger early games who can cosistantly kill the other junglers? it's literally saying don't gank because you have to protect your jungle and if you want another control ward you also have to go into the enemy jungle.... And I mean why gank when you're rewarded for invading, chances are the laners can ward the jungle and o wait its now a 4v1 bot jungle all because you wanted to ward a different area
So yeah, it's a big reason
is so damn unpopular, because of how much effort it takes to be meaningful. If your ahead they can't really stop you from getting the stacks, but what's the point when you're ahead taking camps? You (usually) end up having to get creatures with the gold difference anyway. 75 gold, you kinda lose the 30 gold if an enemy clears it, and you can only have one out at a time, and they take no real effort to clear because you can see them
So I ask you what makes this new smite okay?
Deathbypie1 votesAre they removing trinkets too??
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votesAre they removing trinkets too??
Not yet, but sightstone is gone, and green smite might go