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Since autofill is starting to be debated, I thought I'd add a little perspective.

Rock MD··36 votes·2,615 views

"Can we just remove Role Selection completely so these spoiled season 6 players will shut the hell up? What >did they think we had to do for 5 years before we ever had it? Yeah, imagine that, we had to work as a team, in the >lobby, to put each player on their best role and champion given the circumstances.

Can we PLEASE go back to this so players can stop whining about having their crutch pulled out from under them? The same crutch that prevents them from becoming good players in the first place... The crutch that actively encourages players to avoid learning how to work as part of a team in a team game. It sure would be such a terrible thing to once again force players on a team to act as if they are part of a team, oh yeah, what a terrible and awful thing that would be.

Everyone just loves the yolo, all for me and none for yall state of the game for the past 12 months. Real fun stuff." - posted in General Discussion

This was one of my original arguments before new champion select - that it would decrease team communication and simply make the game a lot more casual and take away from one of the big things that made solo queue interesting; it tested how well YOU played as well as how cohesive your whole team could play. It measured both individual and team skill. Of course when it started I was resistant because everyone selected mid, and then I eventually became complacent.

In my perspective over the past few hundred million autofill games, I've noticed something. The OP is actually right. When I get filled to mid, I get selfish. Even with an autofilled AD who can only mid/jg, I won't swap. It breaks down communication and teamwork just by existing.

And I get it, there were trolls in games. That sucks. But the overall quality of higher rated matches personally feels like it has gone down because I'm playing AD against an autofilled support who only top/jg's. It doesn't increase diversity in skill and it doesn't encourage the teamwork Riot is so intent on pushing on us. As a player, I'm down from being able to play 2 and a half (I was never a good toplaner) roles to 1 and a half, and even though I've branched out to other champions IN MY ROLE, I'm confined to that role and autofill sucks because now I gotta go back and grind out matches to get competent as a support/toplaner after hitting D3 rather than before.

What do you think?

91 Comments

Wonderlands17 votes

Bring back pick-order. I'm sick of these newbies complaining.

SithesisLord20 votes

Pick order a.k.a. last pick is always the support.

Lmao, no. Role picker is and always will be better.

I don´t mind autofilling if that means getting protection from it for the following game or games.

jaymc11306 votes

{quoted}

Pick order a.k.a. last pick is always the support.

Lmao, no. Role picker is and always will be better.

I don´t mind autofilling if that means getting protection from it for the following game or games.

The majority of my games with pick order did not have support as the last picked champion.

Particularly in high level play where last pick is extremely valuable as a counter pick.

The overwhelming majority of the time last pick went to one of the solo lanes. Some times the players arranged a champ swap. Some times players would flip flop roles mid draft. Everything happened because teams were actively working together in lobby to adapt to the opposing team, their bans, their picks, what our teammates had that was good against their pick that they could play well, who needs a pick saved for a counterpick, who can afford to have their champ picked early. All this excellent awesome teamwork stuff that has completely disappeared from the game for the last 12 months.

I really would like that stuff back. I like team work. I like working as part of a team. I like when my teams want to work with me.

I rather think everyone likes these things actually. If they didn't they wouldn't play this game.

Sure, every once in a while you run into an elo terrorist. But you can just dodge those jerks. No harm no foul. Certainly no need to play with them. They certainly didn't happen all the time, or even a lot. It happens just about as much in this last season as it did in all of the prior seasons I played. Once every 20 or 30 games for the last 6 years I would run into a player like this. And I'd just avoid them. No one with that kind of selfish attitude is worth playing with in the first place.

The problem with Role Selection is that it encourages this exact attitude in players. Which is counterproductive.

RainbowIcee2 votes

that's a very rare and unpopular opinion these boards but i wholeheartedly see your point. And I feel is very viable, people only want draft pick just so they can get a chance to play the champion or role they want and will forever argue anything else is just not durable. They need to get that specific role or champion or else the whole game system doesn't really work. It bothers me because people wanna play competitively but refuse to not be 1 trick ponies.

jaymc11304 votes

{quoted}

that's a very rare and unpopular opinion these boards but i wholeheartedly see your point. And I feel is very viable, people only want draft pick just so they can get a chance to play the champion or role they want and will forever argue anything else is just not durable. They need to get that specific role or champion or else the whole game system doesn't really work. It bothers me because people wanna play competitively but refuse to not be 1 trick ponies.

You can be a competitive player and be a 1 trick artist. I do it every season and I have no issues. I also know that I have fall backs in other roles, where, in a pinch, I can play whatever is needed if its in the best interest of the team and gives the team the best possible chance to win.

On a one trick eve account just this last season I was assigned jungle. But ran into an "elo terrorist" in the lobby. He demanded jungle and said it would all he would play. The rest of my team started to bitch and whine about the "terrorist". Only one person bothered to look him up. He was a challenger smurfing in low diamond on an 83% win rate one trick Master Yi account. As talented as I may be at the role (and the name oOBestEveNaOo is extremely accurate, I do not believe there is a single eve player on this entire server better than me at this point), I quickly realized I am NOT as talented as this guy with my paltry, almost pedestrian 65% win rate. The rest of the team whined because they thought he was trolling. I recognized it for what it was. Master Yi already knew what I had just found out, the best bet for the team, given the players who had been placed on it, was for him to play jungle and go on his usual rampage. I opted to move to support and told the lobby to hush it up and take the free win, 83% win rates don't come along every day and this win was truly free.

I didn't play great in the match. But I didn't have to. I left lane at level 1 to follow Yi's level 2 invade. We killed the opposing jungler at his red buff. Then we took the raptors. Then we flashed over the wall and 3 man turret dove the mid laner. Then me and Yi wandered over to the enemy blu buff where the just respawned enemy jungler died to us once again. I backed at about 3:30, 0-0-3, and bought sightstone and went back to my lane. I sat back the rest of the game and chilled while the Yi, who I helped feed, hard carried and scored a pair of quadras and even a 1v5 penta kill. Literal 1v5. He told us not to interfere... Cocky. But he did it. And then we ended and I was happy with my free win.

This is the lesson for players about why Role Selection is a bad thing. Instead of encouraging players to act like I did that match, to work with the team, for the best interest of the team, it encourages players to act selfishly, to think only of themselves, to the detriment of the team.

A quality player never does this. Ever. A quality player always asses the situation and makes the best possible decision that offers the team the best chance to win the match. And no player can become a quality player if they never have to learn this skill that I have given an example of. And you cannot learn this skill with Role Selection in place.

Teamwork requires you to think, to be aware, to analyze, to strategize, to communicate with your team. And Role Selections prevents players from feeling they need to do this. Hence why it is a crutch.

DeathBot6662 votes

I started playing league in Season 5, so I've only seen low ELO perspective of both pick order and role selection. In my experience, in lower ELO role selection won/lost me a good 50% of my game. I can't count how many times I had either lost a game because someone who can't ADC/JG/whatever lane get stuck there just because they were last pick, or won a game for that same reason. Not to mention people who did slightly off meta things, like brand support, and not say anything causing the 5th pick to look and see "Well brand is AP, he's prob mid. I'll take thresh." And then proceed to be stuck solo laning something that shouldn't be solo laning, since that first guy wouldn't switch. Now the newer queue still has its problems, but I feel like in lower ELO it's better.

Rock MD4 votes

{quoted}

I started playing league in Season 5, so I've only seen low ELO perspective of both pick order and role selection. In my experience, in lower ELO role selection won/lost me a good 50% of my game. I can't count how many times I had either lost a game because someone who can't ADC/JG/whatever lane get stuck there just because they were last pick, or won a game for that same reason. Not to mention people who did slightly off meta things, like brand support, and not say anything causing the 5th pick to look and see "Well brand is AP, he's prob mid. I'll take thresh." And then proceed to be stuck solo laning something that shouldn't be solo laning, since that first guy wouldn't switch. Now the newer queue still has its problems, but I feel like in lower ELO it's better.

Problem is you need to cater to higher elos rather than lower unless it's something (unlikely) that will straight up prevent low elos from enjoying games. See; Yi/Akali nerfs from earlier seasons.

Back to why you need to cater to high elos. When you balance something around being done "right" almost all of the time, the changes feels better, especially when applied to champions. It also creates a sort of "preferential treatment" where people are like, "This sucks. I'll just grind out to Plat+ and it'll get better." and it does and you get said preferential treatment PLUS you feel good because you accomplished something.

If it caters to low elos, for example if Zed was balanced around having a 50% winrate in Silver, a group of people who get playing Zed right 20% of the time, then when you get to people who play it 100% of the time it will downright shit on everything in existence. In terms of queue, it's like, "Wow I hit Plat+ and now my player experience is terrible. This sucks. I'm gonna make a smurf and/or not play as much."

and when they leave a new group of players who were just below them hit Plat+, and what do they say/do? "Wow this sucks. I'mma do the same thing the last guys did." and it becomes a vacuum.

DeathBot6662 votes

I agree that balancing champions and items (like your EX zed) around higher elo makes sence, however the draft works better being catered to lower ELO. With champions and Items, you are 100% right. The higher you get, the more OP that will become. However, when it comes to the draft, the way I look at it is that people in higher ELO are less likely to be affected by how roles are determined, since they are more likely to be able to play multiple roles. However in low ELO, most people may only have 1-2 champions they are good with. This means that people in higher ELO wouldn't be affected by the different drafts as much, so they should be designed to be more useful for lower ELO, since it affects them more.

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

I agree that balancing champions and items (like your EX zed) around higher elo makes sence, however the draft works better being catered to lower ELO. With champions and Items, you are 100% right. The higher you get, the more OP that will become. However, when it comes to the draft, the way I look at it is that people in higher ELO are less likely to be affected by how roles are determined, since they are more likely to be able to play multiple roles. However in low ELO, most people may only have 1-2 champions they are good with. This means that people in higher ELO wouldn't be affected by the different drafts as much, so they should be designed to be more useful for lower ELO, since it affects them more.

Actually the opposite can be true more often than not. The difference between a diamond in his off role and his primary is huge. Its literally the difference between solo hard carrying a game with and AFK on his team, or playing braindead and feeding his way to a loss sometimes. Not that this is true of all players, but for the players it is true for the difference in performance is far more impactful to the game in high elo than it is in low elo. This can actually be game warping at times because some games simply aren't competitive. And the sad fact is the frequency with which this type of thing occurred in the last season was astronomically higher than it has ever been. It's part of the data set that confirms Role Selection was working as a crutch to shore up weak players who achieved ranks they wouldn't have other wise ever been able to achieve and the destabilizing effect this had on the ladder caused a huge portion of the player base to simply quit the game entirely. Which, of course, is what lead to autofill being a factor now. In essence, Role Selection aided in the degradation of this game to such a degree that autofill became a requirement just to make the game function for the players who remain.

Dracocrash3 votes

akali nerfs in previous seasons were deserved, regardless of ELO.

Odinakos3 votes

When did that happen? Once in 20 games or less? Sure when there was a suport main (which was also rare back then) but when i was playing adc (s1-3, along with support), the most games had support as last pick. And noone wanted to swap because sometimes people would not trade afterwards because they didnt want to play support.

Get your rose tinted glasses off. It was a mess up to and including gold. Which means a huge percentage of playerbase. Higher elos had this problem also. Just because Riot now forces you now does not mean that players did not force you back then.

DrCyanide2 votes

Last picking in Blind Pick (or going Fill, same thing really) gets you Support only about 40% of the time (I've been keeping track). Are you telling me that with a designated order that number somehow spikes up +60% to 100%?

People forget that there are players who don't mind Support, they just don't want it every single game like you'd get by putting it as primary, secondary, or fill in Draft. In any pick order/call order system, these players will gladly take Support over another role. I've gotten Mid about 20% of the time going Fill in Blind Pick, so it's not like you can even say you'll be permanently excluded from some roles with a return to pick order.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

So freaking what?! Either the team member want to win and are willing to trade around roles depending on who's go secondary positions they feel they can play because their main role is taken or you get shoved into playing support, so freaking what?! Learn how to play support, learn how to play ALL the roles, even if you still have one that you're better at, knowing the other roles is very helpful for understanding the game as a whole.

dominusx2 votes

yeh if you are gold or something. never had that issue during pick order times in plat. there were players for everything

Lionl11 votes

Yes, i'd rather have to wait a few more minutes for the roll i want than to be autofilled into a roll i don't want for a shorter que time. This way i can play the roll i want and more experienced at rather than playing a new roll that was forced on me and bad at.

jaymc11305 votes

{quoted}

Yes, i'd rather have to wait a few more minutes for the roll i want than to be autofilled into a roll i don't want for a shorter que time. This way i can play the roll i want and more experienced at rather than playing a new roll that was forced on me and bad at.

Which is precisely the reason Role Selection should not exist. It serves as a crutch for you that prevents you from growing as a player and improving at this game.

This in turn, after happening for millions of other players, degrades the overall quality of matches across all skill levels as players no longer feel a need to learn basic game fundamentals.

This, obviously, is bad for the overall health of the game.

LXII10 votes

Yeah cause playing off-roles every time instead of what you actually want to improve at is definitely a "crutch".

I don't want to be a "good" support. I'm pretty decent at it, but I don't really care to dedicate more of my time to it. I AM interested in being better at top and jungle.. take a guess what roles I pick.

It doesn't degrade anything. You're getting players now that actively play the roles they're about to play in your game. I would much rather have top lane mains, or adc mains, etc than people that are less than enthusiastic about the role but can still do it since they now have to.

jaymc11307 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-24T21:52:24.812+0000)

Yeah cause playing off-roles every time instead of what you actually want to improve at is definitely a "crutch".

I don't want to be a "good" support. I'm pretty decent at it, but I don't really care to dedicate more of my time to it. I AM interested in being better at top and jungle.. take a guess what roles I pick.

It doesn't degrade anything. You're getting players now that actively play the roles they're about to play in your game. I would much rather have top lane mains, or adc mains, etc than people that are less than enthusiastic about the role but can still do it since they now have to.

Here, you're making the classic low level player mistake of thinking that ONLY the experience you acquire while playing as a jungle or top will help you in the future when you play jungle or top.

This is not the case.

Your macro understanding of the game is dependent upon you understanding the function and abilities of all roles at various points in the game so that you can make better, more informed decisions, about what needs to happen in a strategic sense to end the game in a victory.

Playing as a support on occasion or an ADC will better immerse you in what it takes to play the role effectively. This knowledge in turn will help you as a top laner or a jungler as you will better know when your bot lane is in trouble and you need to TP there to stop the enemy from taking them out and taking an objective or wander down there to give them a gank and help them out in a pinch.

If you don't play adc on a regular basis you might not be aware that your ADC in your next match is in trouble when he is alone in lane while oom, pushed up to the enemy turret without proper wards. If you play as an ADC on occasion you might know that you are very vulnerable while oom, especially when pushed up in a lane. Furthermore knowing exactly which adcs are most affected and most vulnerable in this circumstance can also be important. If you don't play that role often you might not know that you need to start shading to that part of the map as a jungler because the adc is exposing himself as a prime target and is likely to be ganged up on in the near future. As a top laner you might be more cautious in this scenario when you are alone in lane and your lane opponent has backed and you both have TP up as a TP flank is possible.

Being aware of these types of situations from multiple perspectives is what helps you make solid, fundamentally sound strategic decisions in game and there is often no way to acquire this kind of knowledge except first hand experience. If you don't KNOW that this is something that is about to happen to your ADC and exactly what it means for him and how hard he can fight back... how can you expect to respond to the situation appropriately?

Quite simply, you can't.

You aren't alone in making this mistake. Millions of other players have made it too. I, myself, even made mistakes like this many many years ago thinking that I didn't need to understand the game from x perspective because I usually play y or z instead of x. But in order to improve and grow as a player, in order to play a fundamentally sound game, in order to have a strong grasp of the strategic elements of the game, a player needs to experience the game from as many angles as possible as each different perspective can offer a unique insight that will aid you at some point down the line.

LXII8 votes

Stopped taking you seriously at "low level" since your account was only Silver 2 seasons ago and hasn't seen ranked since.

But to humor you, OBVIOUSLY the oom ADC pushed to enemy turrets with no wards and 1/3 hp is in a bad spot. You don't have to play ADC every game to know that. Hell, you probably don't need to play it ever to know that. I've already spent plenty of time learning the ins and outs of this game, I read patch notes extensively and when I'm not playing I watch streams so let me say it again for you.. I DO NOT NEED TO PLAY (INSERT ROLE) REGULARLY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE/SHOULD BE DOING.

You're just spouting idealistic nonsense at this point.

jaymc11302 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-24T22:20:38.663+0000)

Stopped taking you seriously at "low level" since your account was only Silver 2 seasons ago and hasn't seen ranked since.

But to humor you, OBVIOUSLY the oom ADC pushed to enemy turrets with no wards and 1/3 hp is in a bad spot. You don't have to play ADC every game to know that. Hell, you probably don't need to play it ever to know that. I've already spent plenty of time learning the ins and outs of this game, I read patch notes extensively and when I'm not playing I watch streams so let me say it again for you.. I DO NOT NEED TO PLAY (INSERT ROLE) REGULARLY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE/SHOULD BE DOING.

You're just spouting idealistic nonsense at this point.

What does op.gg say about my LikeAMaws account?

What does it say about my oOBestEveNaOo account?

Lol.

You would be better served if you stopped trying to argue and started to absorb the gifts of knowledge I am sharing with you. Its typically wise to listen to the advice of far superior players mate.

LXII4 votes

Oh go check my alts too!

I'm C9 Sneaky Also C9 Gun Oh and I'm Dyrus too!

I just post from this account because why not right?!

Your "knowledge" is little more than idealistic drivel meant to make you feel superior. Pseudo intellectuals like yourself do this often, it's a personality defect, but you can overcome it.

At least I hope. Have a good Thanksgiving though!

Rock MD4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-24T22:37:38.131+0000)

Oh go check my alts too!

I'm C9 Sneaky Also C9 Gun Oh and I'm Dyrus too!

I just post from this account because why not right?!

Your "knowledge" is little more than idealistic drivel meant to make you feel superior. Pseudo intellectuals like yourself do this often, it's a personality defect, but you can overcome it.

At least I hope. Have a good Thanksgiving though!

The Diamond one is verifiable as his. He plays with someone that only a select group of people (including myself) know.

LXII4 votes

No offense, but this is the internet, you are not a credible source and neither is literally anyone else that would "vouch". I could give you some account names, I could even get those accounts to message you and say they're actually me, wouldn't make it true.

jaymc11303 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-24T22:41:37.635+0000)

No offense, but this is the internet, you are not a credible source and neither is literally anyone else that would "vouch". I could give you some account names, I could even get those accounts to message you and say they're actually me, wouldn't make it true.

^ See Rock. His mind is made up. Lol. Its closed. His cup is full. He can receive no new knowledge.

Which is fine. That's this choice. He can choose to remain a poor player for as long as he so desires. When he makes the choice to start on the path of growth as a player I will be here, waiting, as I always am, to enlighten any who will listen. I am always here for those who have emptied their cup and are waiting for it to be filled again.

LXII3 votes

A name like "Thea" and you somehow convinced yourself I'm a guy.

You're really pushing the "pseudo" part of pseudo-intellectual. Even people of average intelligence wouldn't have made that mistake. Lol

jaymc11303 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-24T22:49:10.121+0000)

A name like "Thea" and you somehow convinced yourself I'm a guy.

You're really pushing the "pseudo" part of pseudo-intellectual. Even people of average intelligence wouldn't have made that mistake. Lol

I use the pronoun "he" on the boards always unless I explicitly know the person is a female. Partially because the vast majority of gamers are male, partly because its less to type.

Apologies if you were offended by the pronoun madam. None was intended.

jaymc11303 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-24T22:37:38.131+0000)

Have a good Thanksgiving though!

And a pleasant Turkey Day to you as well mate!

HazyCloud72 votes

What's wrong with being really good at 2-3 roles and sub par in others?

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

What's wrong with being really good at 2-3 roles and sub par in others?

Nothing at all.

What's wrong is choosing to whine, or troll a game because you have to play a role you are sub par at every once in a while. What's wrong is to feel entitled to your best role regardless of circumstance just because its your best role.

LXII6 votes

Pick order was garbage. Last guy was support 90% of the time.

I don't know how you got games where your team was actively discussing things and finding out who should go where, but that's just not how it was for most of us.

"Mid or feed" "Top only" "I can't support, I don't have any champions" etc.

Pick order made games unfun before they even began. Autofill isn't any better since it basically creates the same environment only with the ability for first pick to have to play support when they really didn't want to. The point stands though that pick order was garbage, and so is autofill.

I think most people would just be fine with waiting and actually playing what they want.

jaymc11303 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-11-24T21:48:44.719+0000)

Pick order was garbage. Last guy was support 90% of the time.

I don't know how you got games where your team was actively discussing things and finding out who should go where, but that's just not how it was for most of us.

"Mid or feed" "Top only" "I can't support, I don't have any champions" etc.

These things only happen to players who have not learned the skill of being a good teammate.

Players who HAVE this skill rarely ever have this issue. We op.gg people as soon as we get into the lobby, identify what everyone is best at, then we communicate these things to the team and make recommendations about what will give the team the best chance to win. 99 times out of 100 teams will appreciate this type of teamwork and will actively choose to participate as part of the team with you and aid in the strategy efforts in lobby.

Role Selections prevents players from ever acquiring this skill.

They feel like its not a skill they need to have.

And this is perhaps the most important skill in the entire game.

Its never good for the health of a team sport when the individual players are encouraged to refuse to cooperate as part of the team. Its simply counterproductive and degrades the overall quality of the game.

Learn to be a good teammate, an effective leader, team organizer and a positive influence starting in the lobby.

Zen Fury3 votes

{quoted}

These things only happen to players who have not learned the skill of being a good teammate.

You obviously weren't around during the bad old days.

A fair amount of games, especially in ranked, became a fight over who played what. It was irritating. It was annoying. And worse, it inevitably lead to toxic behavior either in pre-game chat or during the game when the person who didn't get mid started laying into the person who did. It's basically why I stopped playing the game, even though I almost always got the role I wanted (support main).

Since I've been back I haven't seen these stupid fights over position at all. No bitching about "I called" or "I have pick order" or "Mid or I feed". It's a nice change.

Is role selection perfect? No, but it's better than the crap that happened before.

As far as "playing every role" goes, that's not a requirement. Yes, play every role until you have a firm understanding of the game. Play as or against champs to get an understanding how they work. But if there is a particular position you like to play and are good at, there's no real reason to be forced into one that you're not. You don't see Tom Brady playing inside line backer, but he certainly understands how that position works and what can be done to deal with it.

Rock MD4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zen Fury,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2016-11-25T01:09:05.272+0000)

You obviously weren't around during the bad old days.

A fair amount of games, especially in ranked, became a fight over who played what. It was irritating. It was annoying. And worse, it inevitably lead to toxic behavior either in pre-game chat or during the game when the person who didn't get mid started laying into the person who did. It's basically why I stopped playing the game, even though I almost always got the role I wanted (support main).

Since I've been back I haven't seen these stupid fights over position at all. No bitching about "I called" or "I have pick order" or "Mid or I feed". It's a nice change.

Is role selection perfect? No, but it's better than the crap that happened before.

As far as "playing every role" goes, that's not a requirement. Yes, play every role until you have a firm understanding of the game. Play as or against champs to get an understanding how they work. But if there is a particular position you like to play and are good at, there's no real reason to be forced into one that you're not. You don't see Tom Brady playing inside line backer, but he certainly understands how that position works and what can be done to deal with it.

Really? Because I've had at least 3 people the past few days go mid when I or someone else was clearly labeled mid.

It's getting silly.

Myrmiron4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chairman Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-24T21:12:54.008+0000)

This was one of my original arguments before new champion select - that it would decrease team communication and simply make the game a lot more casual and take away from one of the big things that made solo queue interesting; it tested how well YOU played as well as how cohesive your whole team could play. It measured both individual and team skill.

Same. I was also against teambuilder in ranked because it meant that worse players could now achieve higher ranks than good players, simply by focusing on 1 roll; and actually good players with diverse champion and lane pool were crippled in their carrying potential. Basically it made the game a whole lot more casual, which is fine for normals but not ranked. I used to be top, and fill support/jungle if needed. Thanks to teambuilder however I haven't played support since forever, because selecting support as your second basically means you're main support now.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

Same. I was also against teambuilder in ranked because it meant that worse players could now achieve higher ranks than good players, simply by focusing on 1 roll; and actually good players with diverse champion and lane pool were crippled in their carrying potential. Basically it made the game a whole lot more casual, which is fine for normals but not ranked. I used to be top, and fill support/jungle if needed. Thanks to teambuilder however I haven't played support since forever, because selecting support as your second basically means you're main support now.

Playing your least desired role should be kind of like paying taxes in league.

You don't have to do it a ton, but you do have to put in your fair share, same as every other player, for the good of the community and the health of the game.

Toru Itai1 votes

the problem is you don't have to anymore. it's like trump suddenly said we only have to pay taxes is we want to. most people won't.

Laxfan523 votes

As.a person who started playing at the beginning of season 6. Im really thankful for draft pick and not having to play positions that I am terrible at (I'm a mid main and I cant ADC or jg)

Shadow Hazard3 votes

So you want to go back to "give me my position or I feed"?

Rock MD5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shadow Hazard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-11-25T01:57:03.749+0000)

So you want to go back to "give me my position or I feed"?

Since it is legitimately more competitive, yes.

I don't think you realize this but when I play a competitive mode I expect competitive results. Forcing everyone to take arbitrary roles is not competitive.

Krystle2 votes

[deleted]

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

Forcing everyone to take arbitrary roles is exactly what can happen with auto-fill. How the fuck you cannot see this is beyond comprehension man. We pick our preferred roles, hence nothing arbitrary.

The real question is: How can you not see that allowing only SOME players to pick preferred roles while forcing others to take an arbitrary role is inherently unfair and unsatisfying?

It should never be on a machine to tell a team what is best for the team.

Machines can't think, they can't use logic, they can't account for all the crazy random variables a person can.

Only a REAL LIVE PERSON can come up with a strategy. And only a team that wants to work together can come up with a team wide effective strategy. A team that is forced to conform to machine mandated circumstances gives up the right to make intelligent choices for their own good and must accept the results of a flawed automaton choosing poorly for them instead.

We don't want to remove Role Selection to deprive players of something. We want to remove it to once again EMPOWER them to make the choices they think are best for the team, as this is a FAR superior method than allowing some machine to consistently decide for them and to decide wrong.

Krystle2 votes

[deleted]

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

And who the hell is "forcing others to take an arbitrary role" in the role declaration. You pick 2 roles you are comfortable with, or you pick fill if you are fine with all roles. Everybody gets exactly what they queued up for, nobody is getting forced to shit like you falsely claim.

Lol. How do you not get this?

YOU are. By selecting your roles. Because you select your roles and this ensures that some other player must autofill. Simply BY PICKING YOUR OWN ROLES YOU ARE FORCING A ROLE ONTO ANOTHER!!!!

This will always be the case as long as Role Selection and Autofill exist in combination with massively declined player base. The existence of the one feature in combination with a lack of players (because a lot of people didn't like the feature and quit the game completely) necessitates the need for the other feature.

So you.

YOU are forcing a role another player doesn't want on them by selfishly thinking only about what role you get to play and selecting it.

That's completely bullshit. You want people who can yell more or more assertive to submit others into roles they don't want to play. That machine you are complaining about is taking your decisions into account, but the average Alpha in the old pick does not give a flying fuck what you prefer. They will "mid or feed" and tell you to "git gud and suck it up" to bully you into roles you do not want to play.

Yes. I want a WHOLE TEAM, to decide AS A TEAM, what is best for the team. If you don't have teams that do this its because you are a low level player. Players are in low level play because they DON'T KNOW HOW to work with the team in lobby (or in game) to put everyone in the best position to succeed. And guess what prevents low level players from ever learning the skill of how to work as part of the team?

Bingo. Role Selection.

It is the crutch you use to excuse all your failings as a player and continue to remain a selfish and self involved player to the detriment of every team you ever play on.

Make no mistake, there are a million other players just like you. And I seek to free you of those bonds. But first you have to stop fighting so hard to remain in your restraints.

Krystle2 votes

[deleted]

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

Man you are seriously dumb. Nobody MUST autofill. That's what we are trying to say, take the forced autofill out. If a person wants to fill, it should not be because anybody is forcing them. Pick 2 roles you are comfortable with, and be guaranteed to get either one of them. You wanna fill? By all fucking means, do fill. It is a serious brain damage to think that me declaring Supp/Top is forcing someone with ADC/Mid to anything. You choose with your own free will.

This is why its hard to speak with Low elo players and its why their opinions should never be considered by Riot, They tend to lack the cognitive abilities required to understand simple things.

Here goes any ways: You can't remove auto fill.

This would cause wait times for silver level matches or even normal matches to be challenger tier long. If EVERY player has to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to play a game then everyone quits playing the game and then the game dies. Riot CAN'T remove autofill because doing so means they go out of business.

Its that simple. I know the lines may be difficult for you to connect, and you probably don't know a thing about business, hell you're probably some kid in college who has never had a real job in his life if we go with the lowest common denominator. But this is how business works. There are things you can and can't do because they cost money. And a business is all about making money. Making a decision that costs a business all its money and its entire future revenue stream is a decision no business can afford to make if it wants to stay in business.

So yes, because this is the reality of things Role Selection means any player who picks anything other than "fill" is FORCING other players to play something they may not want to play. Which is fine, not everyone gets to do what they want to do all the time. There is NOTHING WRONG with forcing a player to occasionally do something they don't want to do. What cannot happen is to force players to constantly do things they don't want to do. And guess what happens as long as Role Selection exists? Less people want to play because they know they will be autofilled, which, in turn, causes autofill to trigger more often, until, eventually, it triggers always for every player, every game, because there is no other solution for the matchmaking algorithm.

That is what cannot happen because it means the death of this game. Which means we need to find a way to stop forcing players to do things they don't like to do so damn often which will cause them to quit playing. There is a simple solution and it's one that worked just fine for 5 years. Pick order. Allow the players to work out among themselves who is doing what. Every player has an equal say in the matter that way and an equal opportunity to choose to do something they dont want to do for the good of the team or abide by pick order and roll the dice and do what they believe is best for them and accept that some one else may cost them the match because they aren't as capable at something that the other player could have done better.

There's really nothing else to say to you beyond this. This is pretty much as simple as it gets and as basic and uncomplicated as it is possible to present the reality of the situation in. If you don't understand, then, well, you are the problem and the reason this game eventually fades away into nothing in the coming year or two. I've done my part to keep the game alive, as I always have over the years, I can only hope that it will be enough to overcome the millions of players like yourself who are intent on destroying the very thing you say you like playing.

jaymc11303 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shadow Hazard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkfNmRl5,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-11-25T01:57:03.749+0000)

So you want to go back to "give me my position or I feed"?

Yes. Because the players who did that then are still doing it now. There has been no change in the amount of lobbies that are held hostage by elo terrorists. You folks simply exaggerate how often it occurred in past seasons. It happened exactly as much for me this season as it has in ever prior season. Which is to say it didn't happen very often at all. Most players WANT to win and work as part of a team who WANTS to win.

If you really have some one in your lobby who is intent on trolling the the solution now is the same as it ever was. Just dodge and avoid playing with some jerk who wants to troll you into a loss you don't deserve. There's really no such thing as "elo terrorism". If you choose to play with a troll then its your fault and your fault alone for choosing to play with a troll. Period. I have no sympathy for players who say "but he said mid or feed and then when he didn't get mid he fed and we lost the game!" Zero sympathy. You had the choice to accommodate the player if he was in fact a capable mid laner or avoid playing with him if he was a bad mid laner and intent on trolling on top of being a bad player. You chose to play. That is no one's fault but your own. You are allowed to dodge for a reason. That is the reason.

Qualtar2 votes

back in my day we had pick order we were lucky to get our role we wanted. Stop complaining that you get the second role or even a random role because that is how league should be you need to know how to play every role and not just 1 and hope you get it.

jaymc11305 votes

{quoted}

back in my day we had pick order we were lucky to get our role we wanted. Stop complaining that you get the second role or even a random role because that is how league should be you need to know how to play every role and not just 1 and hope you get it.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with being a one trick pony. That's fine and dandy. But you should at least be competent at the game in an overall sense. Its fine to play just one thing 90% of the time. Its not fine to bitch about having to play something else 10% of the time just because you suck mad balls at it.

I suck mad balls at basically everything. And yet I can still play every role in a competent fashion in any elo range. I might not be able to carry a diamond match as a top laner or an ADC. But if I HAVE to play those roles in a pinch for the good of the team I can do so without hurting the teams chances to win (even if I'm not exactly helping my teams chances to win, I can be neutral and perform my function and my job).

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