"Based off that we did some surveying of players from North America, Korea and Brazil this week to better understand how representative those feelings are. Results from that: All three regions feel jungle is the strongest position, followed fairly closely by mid Korean players see top, bot and support as all around the same power level"
I wanted to know what gameplay's stance on this is
rawiazam140 votesit's pretty obvious tbh, and it shouldn't be otherwise.
jungle helps and affects all 3 lanes, wheras a single lane doesn't. if a single lane was more powerfull than a jungle that means that the rest of the lanes would be useless(last year's top stranded island).
HOWEVER. jungle is the most impactfull role but NOT the most important, for example, if bot got super fed vs a jung that's super fed. most likely the bot is gonna win
LTK KoRo15 votesBasically this.
Jungle IS the most impactful role by design, and only stupid-ass nerfs can change that, but junglers as a champions aren't the most important/the strongest.
Even carry junglers aren't... as carry as ADCs/Mages in lategame.
If anyone thinks that jungle should be nerfed because it have the biggest impact, then also he should think about nerfing ADCs because they do too much damage, nerf Tanks because they're tanky, nerf Bruisers for having damage in melee range, etc etc.
saltran6 votesthen also he should think about nerfing ADCs because they do too much damage
Well, they literally did that, they nerfed adcs because they did their job too well this season, dont make it sound like if that has never happened.
LTK KoRo7 votesWell im talking about the current situation, but yes, the adcs nerfs from 8.11 were fully deserved.
Maybe the example in my first message wasn't too good.
ValyrianBlade4 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T12:35:56.235+0000)
Basically this.
Jungle IS the most impactful role by design, and only stupid-ass nerfs can change that, but junglers as a champions aren't the most important/the strongest.
Even carry junglers aren't... as carry as ADCs/Mages in lategame.
If anyone thinks that jungle should be nerfed because it have the biggest impact, then also he should think about nerfing ADCs because they do too much damage, nerf Tanks because they're tanky, nerf Bruisers for having damage in melee range, etc etc.
There are definitely patches where Jungle has too much impact.
You can agree with the sentiment that jungle should have potentially the most impact on the early game, while still believing the gap is too large.
Also - every role should have equal impact. This is achievable. Jungle can have the most impact early because it's the only role that gets to be present in every lane and influence the whole map. However you can have that impact fall off later into the game if the best tanks are restricted to top lane, and the best carries are restricted to mid/adc. Then while a jungler who made a big impact early can snowball that lead into a win - any game that makes it later would see jungler impact fall off as the higher-impact champions from other roles start imposing themselves in teamfights. Any jungler that wants to have that level of power in teamfights should have to sacrifice early-game impact (whether it's tank junglers with slower clears so they can't gank much, or carry junglers that have weak ganks and just focus on farming in the early game).
If a jungler can both have a high impact in the early game (strong early ganks) AND scale into a commanding force in the late game (either a strong carry, or a tank wtih a lot of CC) - then that jungler's impact seems too high. All 5 players should have fairly equal "say" in whether their team wins or loses. In many cases, the jungler gets the strongest "say".
Zero Skill Tank3 votesThe thing is, in many many games the factor that decides which bot gets chance to get fed is not the difference between bot, but between junglers.
saltran12 votesThey could start to nerf or even remove the Red Smite, it makes junglers too strong in the 1vs1 when they already have so much map preassure by ganks.
LTK KoRo1 votesColorful smites aren't really needed anymore, but they might be needed IF riot will cater to dumbasses and nerf jungle gains.
Jungle currently can duel laners because after their lvl 2-3 powerspike they can gets TONS of exp from ganks (not from kills only, from minions too). Back in the days junglers didn't have problem with killing people because they had less gold or whatever. Back in the days junglers were in shithole when it came to exp. I remember times when i had lvl 4 when both toplaners and midlaners were 6. How im supposed to gank something like that without being insta bursted?
But if anyone will suggest something stupid like "cut exp/gold from jungle" or "make ganking less relevant" or "lessen junglers objective control (???)" then we'll see how stupid boards are.
RekSai CoffeeCo2 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-01T12:40:07.639+0000)
Back in the days junglers were in shithole when it came to exp. I remember times when i had lvl 4 when both toplaners and midlaners were 6. How im supposed to gank something like that without being insta bursted?
It has been like this since 8.10 and even worse with this last change. Jungle is and has been since 8.10 1-3 levels below solo laners from 4-10 min mark (before last change) and now around 4-12 min mark after these changes.
I remember the uproar on boards when junglers were level 3 to level 1/level 2 top at 2:30-3:00 min mark but when situations are reversed but for way longer period of time "it is balanced".
Revert scuttle change and balance the experience for jungle to solo laners then jungle will be fixed and gold funneling due to weak jungle will fade to a lesser known obscurity.
Fire Blaustoise4 votesjungle shouldnt be same level as solo laners , for obvious reasons.
I remember the uproar on boards when junglers were level 3 to level 1/level 2 top at 2:30-3:00 min mark but when situations are reversed but for way longer period of time "it is balanced".
Laners wont come to kick your $$ as lv3 when you are lv1. so you will no be worried during your pve.
Daddy Ants2 votes[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T15:58:43.300+0000)
jungle shouldnt be same level as solo laners , for obvious reasons.
Laners wont come to kick your $$ as lv3 when you are lv1. so you will no be worried during your pve.
Junglers shouldn't be level 4 when Solo Laners are level 6/7
Fire Blaustoise2 votesofc but... ...unless snowball, jungler will be at lv5. But yeah, usualy a jungler will pressure the other one, so the one behind will be really behind.
Yenn10 votesIt's because they polled the general population and junglers thrive off of poor awareness and lack of vision, which is constantly present in 95% of players' games
3TWarrior7 votespart of which happened by removing a lot of vision from the game
Rock MD7 votesIt's because they polled the general population and junglers thrive off of poor awareness and lack of vision, which is constantly present in 95% of players' games
Jungle is most oppressive at high elo, where 2 patches ago 80% of the KR jungle ladder was comprised of almost exclusively Xin, Camille and Taliyah players.
don't post
Moody P3 votesis Xin a high elo jungler now? I remember it used to be the opposite and he was like the classic "noob stomp" guy next to Yi, now I almost never see him
Rock MD2 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2018-12-01T20:39:27.423+0000)
is Xin a high elo jungler now? I remember it used to be the opposite and he was like the classic "noob stomp" guy next to Yi, now I almost never see him
He certainly isn't as flashy as the other 2 but players who picked him regardless found they were climbing a lot higher than they should've.
Yenn4 votes[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-12-01T19:01:39.667+0000)
Jungle is most oppressive at high elo, where 2 patches ago 80% of the KR jungle ladder was comprised of almost exclusively Xin, Camille and Taliyah players.
don't post
Is it 2 patches ago right now? The recent changes to jungle EXP and turrets made jungle more reliant on mistakes and a bit weaker.
There's a reason jungle is constantly auto-filled. Don't post.
Rock MD5 votesIs it 2 patches ago right now? The recent changes to jungle EXP and turrets made jungle more reliant on mistakes and a bit weaker.
There's a reason jungle is constantly auto-filled. Don't post.
Good. They needed nerfs.
Junglers were singlehandedly determining games and the top spots in most, if not all big regions were dominated by junglers.
But hey if the role can't get you out of the elo you're having difficulty with at the time gotta gripe about how shit they are, right?
saltran4 votesI seriously dont know why the Boards find so hard to admit that Jng is broken, and I thought that the ones that always played the victim card were the mage players.
Sire Hippington6 votesBasically agree, Mid+Jungle together basically controll the game, top and bot can become carries mid/late IF they get enabled by their jungle(or outplay the other lane while getting ignored by the other opponents for no reason at all.)
Mid usually is the lane with most influence on the jungle as they can quickly roam into any part of the jungle if they have lane priority, enableing their jungler to go where he pleases and denying the opponent jungler. Jungle it's self obviously can heavily impact any lane, especially if he's ahead of the enemie jungler, so he is a major factor for how the sidelanes will do, on top more than on bot as top is really defensless vs ganks with the shitty state of vision, bot you have atleast two people that can ward...
The Sidelanes have similar carry potential if they get enabled atm and pick accordingly. But they have a hard time doing anything by them selfs if the enemy jungle/mid shows up and theirs doesn't.
My main issue is here is the combination of earlygame focus on the game in general, the high damage and the lack of vision. As a top main, i feel totally exposed to ganks and roams all game long, there is no way to get proper vision, and a single CC is usually enough to die 1vs2 even with full health and tank items, towers also help little because you just die befor they get off 2 shots and most matchups are so volatile that a single gank can start a heavy snowball even if it doesn't end in a kill. Junglers still often beeing a lvl up early with full hp and buffs doesn't help either, hard to survive a gank if the jungler alone could easily solo kill you.
And just playing it save and hope to get back into the game doesn't work either, cause games still are decided so early and even if you play it very save, towerplateing will give a massive gold advantage to your opponent. The only hope is to get a succesfull gank your self and cash in on the shutdown...
Daddy Ants6 votesAsking Gameplay for their input on something like this?
Are you insane?
Jungle Mains are going to say their role isn't the strongest.
Every other role is going to say Jungle and Mid are the strongest.
saltran3 votesI just readed from an infamous jng main on the Boards that Jng is the second worst role in the game only ahead of supp and I legit bursted a laugh that my brother asked me what happened.
BestPudgeNA1 votesAsking Gameplay for their input on something like this?
Are you insane?
Jungle Mains are going to say their role isn't the strongest.
Every other role is going to say Jungle and Mid are the strongest.
I quit playing Jungle and the game all together until Rito makes changes that convince me that they care at all. Before i stopped playing all together i was playing Top main and i feel like it's much much strong in teamfights mid/late when the game is actually determined and it's a much better role overall and frankly much easier.
Daddy Ants3 votesI quit playing Jungle and the game all together until Rito makes changes that convince me that they care at all. Before i stopped playing all together i was playing Top main and i feel like it's much much strong in teamfights mid/late when the game is actually determined and it's a much better role overall and frankly much easier.
Power and Agency wise Jungle is the strongest closely followed by mid.
On a "fun factor" I'd say it's along side ADC at the bottom.
I don't like being 2+ levels below my solo lanes nor do I like this scuttle crab bs.
Fear the Kayn1 votesJungle IS the strongest role but it relies on your laners having a brain. There's been many games where I've ganked bot early a couple times and we secure kills. I leave and go help other lanes for a while and my bot ends up 3/13.
PapaGreg216 votesYeah jungle's role on the game is way more impactful because farming jungle camps is worthless so everybody has to deal with a jungler that is in their lane 24/7. Junglers themselves aren't strong and they are almost always behind in levels and gold but their impact on the game has never been higher because you HAVE to camp lanes to stay relevant. Riot is dumb so they will nerf junglers because of this and think they fixed things but in reality it will just make things worse and make junglers even more desperate to camp lanes. They just need to make camps worth more to punish junglers for taking ganking risks. I have learned how Riot thinks at this point and can see the bad decisions incoming.
Horrible Human5 votesYesterday I had a match where I started red, and before I made it to blue top, mid, and bot... All died.
Somehow, this was my fault and the rest of the game they said " better jungler wins " and yet none of their deaths early were ganks. People play like shit all the time, but it's the jungler.
DerPunkt2 voteshttp://i.imgur.com/X2VjIeu.jpg Actually... well...
No
But admittedly the sheet is very old. Look up more here
NaturesMayhem1 votesWhere did those numbers come from? Putting numbers on a graph doesn't add any validity to them unless you can provide a valid source. And what's your point by posting it?
DerPunkt1 votesLook at the link, riot collected these datas 2014. (I gave you the source you just haven't found it :D)
Also I was just trying to say. Its not always the jungler. Riots 2014 community survey stated that ADC is the most blamed role. I guess this shifts from meta to meta and with junglers being very stong it might actually be the junglers atm, but every lane seems to like to blame somebody else. :-) I was just randomly tossing around that since I found it recently and you just said "but its the jungler [s fault]"
NaturesMayhem1 votesAh, I clicked the link to the picture and it brought me to imgur so I figured it was just a random picture.
However, if you're talking about the link that you attached to "here", that wasn't done by Riot either. It was done by players.
DerPunkt1 votesAh right, I see your point. You are correct. I was a little quick on that. Well it is hard to prove that now, but I believe that this was done not officialy by Riot but some reds on the board participated in creating that survey since they personally found it interesting. But I just have very vague memories about that and might be that my personal bias towards rescuing my reputation and just being correct plays tricks in my mind.
I also believe that Riot Lyte spoke in one of his GDC talks about something very similar so I believe Riot had data showing something similar. Something about players depending on each other and how the percieved most influential role for the own lane, was always the one that gets the blame. So early top and mid would blame jung and ADC and sup each other. And late blame would shift towards ADC and mid since they were the ones supposed to carry now. But... I have seen these talks a few years ago and maybe I am again mixing something up.
But point stays it was a community survey with about 30k people partcitipating so sure the numbers might be skewed by multi accounts etc. but they actually show what one would expect from observing chats in solo Q ADC and sup blame each other and Mid jung and top blame who ever did the first mistake. So if mid dies, he is at fault for losing mid pressure thus jeopardising the whole map control. Top would be blamed for just feeding and jung, for feeding a lane and thus losing it, or not ganking at all, or ganking at the wrong times or what ever :D I mean there are many reasons to blame jungle, and just a few for the other roles. But at the end fucking up differently is the same as fucking up in the same manner, if it is done the same amount of times :D
Morticianjohn4 votesAnd yet no one ever wants to play jg. Granted I'm bronze but I fill only and usually end up playing support or jg.
Salron3 votesI really want to know why they chose Brazil to include when it would've made more sense to use NA EUW and KR instead Also nerf jungle ty
Saezio8 votesI really want to know why they chose Brazil to include when it would've made more sense to use NA EUW and KR instead Also nerf jungle ty
U mean China EU and NA. KR not even make it to the semi's so they trash now don't know how to play the game.
BestPudgeNA2 votesIronic consider JG is the second worst role in the game only ahead of support. But it's expected people always think JG has a bigger impact then it does since the jungler is the person most likely to effect their lane that isn't them or their opposing laner.
The best part though is how BR voted Top lane the worst role. OmegaLUL
Rock MD5 votesIronic consider JG is the second worst role in the game only ahead of support. But it's expected people always think JG has a bigger impact then it does since the jungler is the person most likely to effect their lane that isn't them or their opposing laner.
The best part though is how BR voted Top lane the worst role. OmegaLUL
"Korea, NA, and BR all say jg is strongest role"
"Yeah as a jungle main I definitely know more than any one of the shitter laners from these regions"
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/005/498/1300044776986.jpg
BestPudgeNA1 votes[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2018-12-01T18:53:11.559+0000)
"Korea, NA, and BR all say jg is strongest role"
"Yeah as a jungle main I definitely know more than any one of the shitter laners from these regions"
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/005/498/1300044776986.jpg
People will alway blame JG No matter what But let me break it down to you simply Before 8.10 JG ganking was even level or even ahead 3 vs 2. This meant if the jungler landed his shit the laner would be chunked for 60-70% of his health and at the very least forced to flash away. So even if your laner misses his shit the gank was still successful Now not only is the JG not ahead in this 3-7 level time frame they are generally behind 1 level. So now Jungle ganks you land all you shit the laner is still 60% hp and so you rely on you laner to do that vast majority of the work. If you laner is boosted the solo laner can one shot you with a combo+ignite and you just lost any chance of being useful for the first 10 mins of the game. Jungle no longer relies on itself to get itself and it's laners ahead. Now JG relies on it's laners to get themselves ahead and the jungler ahead. But JG is still the weak late game teamfighting role so now it's weak in early mid and late game.
Despite this obvious glaring weakness of the role that used to be very strong Riot gutted junglers again this patch late game xp, extra turret gold being in plates and turrets hitting for more making dives harder. Because of this i switched to top lane before quiting. No reason to play Jungle anymore you just verbally abused by your teammates while being a really weak role.
Rock MD6 votesPeople will alway blame JG No matter what But let me break it down to you simply Before 8.10 JG ganking was even level or even ahead 3 vs 2. This meant if the jungler landed his shit the laner would be chunked for 60-70% of his health and at the very least forced to flash away. So even if your laner misses his shit the gank was still successful Now not only is the JG not ahead in this 3-7 level time frame they are generally behind 1 level. So now Jungle ganks you land all you shit the laner is still 60% hp and so you rely on you laner to do that vast majority of the work. If you laner is boosted the solo laner can one shot you with a combo+ignite and you just lost any chance of being useful for the first 10 mins of the game. Jungle no longer relies on itself to get itself and it's laners ahead. Now JG relies on it's laners to get themselves ahead and the jungler ahead. But JG is still the weak late game teamfighting role so now it's weak in early mid and late game.
Despite this obvious glaring weakness of the role that used to be very strong Riot gutted junglers again this patch late game xp, extra turret gold being in plates and turrets hitting for more making dives harder. Because of this i switched to top lane before quiting. No reason to play Jungle anymore you just verbally abused by your teammates while being a really weak role.
Uh huh...
have you tried getting good?
Bears Dont Care1 votesAny role where you can +1 a lne is going to be the strongest early game. That is why junglerd are the strongest role prior to preseason. The meta made it that the early game determined who won, so this made the game influenced heavily by junglers.
Things have changed in preseason, junglers are the best early game rolr obviously, but afterwards it becomes mod and bot due to gold available to each role. Jg starts high and ends low if they fail to dnowball. The other roles gain.importance as the game progresses.
The reason jg is so umpopular though is due to this thread. Unnecessary hate and demands for a nerf. If jgers no longer have an impact why jg?
Rock MD2 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-12-02T00:28:39.386+0000)
Any role where you can +1 a lne is going to be the strongest early game. That is why junglerd are the strongest role prior to preseason. The meta made it that the early game determined who won, so this made the game influenced heavily by junglers.
Things have changed in preseason, junglers are the best early game rolr obviously, but afterwards it becomes mod and bot due to gold available to each role. Jg starts high and ends low if they fail to dnowball. The other roles gain.importance as the game progresses.
The reason jg is so umpopular though is due to this thread. Unnecessary hate and demands for a nerf. If jgers no longer have an impact why jg?
So jg was only strong because it was an early game role in an early meta, junglers are useless outside of snowballing, and nobody wants to jungle because people think the role is too strong?
You make it sound like junglers are eternal victims when they're universally deemed too strong and tied with ADC as the most toxic role. They're not victims in capacity outside of their own headspace. What is actually happening is they dominate games early on with how strong the role is and then scaling into being monsters later as well with how strong the champion subset is.
But leave it to this board to call others biased when they don't even know how their own role functions.
Bears Dont Care2 votes[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2018-12-02T00:38:35.785+0000)
So jg was only strong because it was an early game role in an early meta
Jg is strong innately early game because of the +1 ability early game. That is something you just cannot get rid of unless you severely alter the jungle role.
, junglers are useless outside of snowballing,
Allow me to clarify further. Let us say you are playing a champion such as Evelynn. If she fails to snowball early enough, then her late game capability drops because of her innate weaknesses similar to pantheon who is also an early game champion. There re some champions who can maintain relevancy throughout due to utility, such as Sejuani, but you're still not relying on them to carry the game outside of snowballing. That's something ADC's and Midlane tend to do due to the champions used.
and nobody wants to jungle because people think the role is too strong?
Did you ignore what I just said?
"The reason jg is so umpopular though is due to this thread. Unnecessary hate and demands for a nerf. If jgers no longer have an impact why jg?"
It was literally IN THE POST YOU QUOTED.
So where did you get the whole
"no one jungles because the role is too strong" from?
People dont jungle because people hate junglers unnecessarily. "Jungler didn't gank my lane." "better jungler wins." "Jungle is too strong, it influences the game too strongly, nerf the jungle."
Like...dude...I wouldn't want to jungle either if it was receiving such unnecessary backlash.
when they're universally deemed too strong According to whom? Jungler is the role with the most impact prior to pre-season changes because of how early game mattered in season 8. Therefore, its not illogical for the role with the stronger early game potential to have the greatest game influence if everything is decided in early game. Whereas, if you look at other seasons where late game hyper carries were more important, S5 and S6 if my memory serves me right, you saw junglers have less influence because the late game mattered more with protect the kog'maw comps.
and tied with ADC as the most toxic role.
I haven't heard this before to be honest.
They're not victims in capacity outside of their own headspace.
It sounds more along the lines of you are self victimizing yourself. The junglers are too strong! They need a nerf because I don't matter as much! Only difference is, you twisted it to suggest junglers are complaining about being victims.
What is actually happening is they dominate games early on with how strong the role is
Yes, because junglers are an EARLY game role. There is literally no method by which you can alter this situation outside of enforcing farming type junglers who were carry types such as Master Yi.
and then scaling into being monsters later as well with how strong the champion subset is.
Which is entirely dependent upon the champion subset, which is a symptom rather than the actual cause.
But leave it to this board to call others biased when they don't even know how their own role functions.
Considering you have difficulty responding to blatantly made statements, I would not suggest anyone is biased here apart from yourself, let alone capable of knowing how the jungle role functions. Seriously, complaints such as yours are the very reason junglers function the way they do currently.
Back when items such as Wriggle Lantern, Devourer, and other hyper items were available people complained about it being a farm meta. The items which enforced such a thing were altered and changed, so it shifted to early game ganking junglers.
So when you nerf the jungler role by reducing gold and exp further, you enforce a gank meta because junglers now need to be more aggressive to remain useful later on in the game. This leads to a champion subset which favors fast, healthy clears, with a strong emphasis on early game ganking.
When you increase the gold and exp, you enforce a stronger farm meta, and have less early game ganking, but more late game carry potential. In both situations, you complain the jungler role has too much influence. So do what was suggested earlier and
Dont post.
[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2018-12-02T04:37:45.944+0000)
I feel jungles should be weaker than laners until x amount of mins into the game.
I dont mind good ganks. But it feels bad having a jungle simply walk into lane and out stat you before anyone can reasonably get items
Except that they don't outside of extremely early where they can get level 2 before laners get level 1. In terms of a first item basis, the jungle items are weaker than laner items period. They receive less gold. They receive less exp.
Jungler's cannot just stat check a laner unless the laner is already behind.
Rock MD2 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=001400000000,timestamp=2018-12-02T05:57:20.203+0000)
snip
Damn you put a lot of effort in for me to just ignore 90% of the content.
idk what kind of weak ass person says they don't want to play a role just because people are saying it's too strong. Maybe the same people that are so up their own ass they refuse to play meta because it's "dishonorable". Fact of the matter was jungle had too high of an impact. It needed nerfs. It didn't need buffs for an alternate playstyle as that playstyle was pubstomping its way through low elo at the same time (Master Yi, Jax, etc.)
Fewer people are playing the role because it's difficult. As players get better, a role that is 90% decision-making is very hard to pull off with little/no knowledge (D5 and lower). That's why few people want to play it. But if that's your argument for why the role is bad why not look at how
junglers were outdueling solo laners, had more objective control than any other class, was outleveling people massively, and the top 10 was overwhelmingly junglers in most competitive regions. Something had to change.
But yes, blame the fact we need more valuable monsters and afk farm time when what's really gonna happen is Master Yi is going to rise to prominence again and you're all gonna complain about how low counterplay he is.
Bears Dont Care1 votes[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=0014000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-02T06:22:20.146+0000)
snip
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=001400000000,timestamp=2018-12-02T05:57:20.203+0000)
Jungler's cannot just** stat check a laner** unless the laner is already behind.
: Oh really?
Bears Dont Care1 votes
Yes really. All those champions rely on items and levels, not something that is a close to stat checking early game.
Dont believe me? Lane with a jungle item and try to stat check them.
Stat check literally is when your stats are better than you. Laner vs jungle wise, its impossible when you are both even to stat check someone. Partocularly on yi who needs to get gold and items first.
Once the gsme is past laning phase its not really a jungler vs laner thing anymore and more of a champ vs champ basis.
