How Come We Don't See An Uprising of Counterpicks to Supposedly OP Champions?

Meep Man·Sep 8, 2016·23 votes·1,893 views

When Zed was big, I didn't see a ton of Kayle. When Darius was big, we weren'y swarming with ranged Top Lanes. When Kog'Maw is big, I don't see a ton of Rammus.

Anyone notice this?

EDIT:

Ok, let me clarify and make some points. We go into the game against an "OP" champion right? Which means they will likely be the focus of the game, correct? The laning phase, as of late, has a pretty big impact on the game, correct? So would you rather win lane because you counterpicked the OP champion or lose lane because you didn't and then go into the rest of the game at a disadvantage anyway because you are underfarmed?

Secondly, I get that Rammus might not be the 100% Counter Pick to Kog. However, you are entirely missig the point if that's what you focus on. Pick Malphite, pick Nautilus, pick somone who can shut down Kog is my point!

87 Comments

Very Hard EngageSep 8, 201614 votes

because even when you counterpick the enemy hero its still only a 58~ chance of success, sure it works more often, but its not a guarantee, especially when you are unfamiliar with the counterpick.

Meep ManSep 8, 201613 votes

Well, last time I checked, people freak out over a % chance of victory like 58%.

Very Hard EngageSep 8, 201616 votes

sure its tilt inducing, discouraging, and massively favors the laning phase, but that zed is still going to roam bot, get double kills, ignore your danger/mia pings, and get big anyway.

Meep ManSep 8, 20167 votes

That's a very sour and negative way to look at things. Looking as if something is guaranteed to happen is how you lose a game.

Very Hard EngageSep 8, 20165 votes

I can do everything in my power as a counterpick, and ensure its a 5v4. remove someone no questions asked. and the 4 man can still outperform my 5 man. it just sucks, it shouldn't be happening, but its a matchmaking issue and a loss on champion selection where people pick what they want and not whats effective. or "well the rest of the lanes lost, at which point my counterpick lost meaning"

CatastropSep 8, 20166 votes

But it's true. I'm 99% sure this is the cause of all Zed bans. He's not hard to deal with, people just don't trust teammates to play properly.

LankPantsSep 8, 20169 votes

That and people don't want to put themselves through the hell that playing VS Zed entails regardless of if you counterpick him or not.

SpoofghoulSep 8, 20162 votes

i actually like playing vs zed

then again i pretty much stomp his face in 100% of the time ^^

see it happens that my main Sion is actually a pretty big counter to him

and its fine if he roams following him is no problem with Sion either ^^

Pika FoxSep 8, 20162 votes

Most zed bans are because he is straight up fucking annoying as shit to play against moreso than him being strong, weak, or how easy or difficult it is to play against him.

4789Sep 9, 20161 votes

u can easily fall into the 42 games it doesn't
champion not hero triggered
the op picks aren't a guarantee either

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 8, 201610 votes

cuz right now with the kog jungle build rammus dont have a shot.

item 1419 item 3124 item 3091 item 3153 item 3036 item 1001

Meep ManSep 8, 20161 votes

Kog'Maw isn't reducing Rammus' armor though, so his W+Thornmail is still dealing hundreds of damage per attack to Kog'Maw.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 8, 20164 votes

lol when you are doing that much mix damage and %hp damage KogMaw dont give a shit about item 3075 on rammus. and if rammus dont get dps to death

Meep ManSep 8, 20161 votes

Fine, if not Rammus pick someone else that counters Kog'Maw! Point is, why not pick a counter?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 8, 20161 votes

the counter to KogMaw jungle is take a jungler who is good lvl 1-3 at dueling and killing and camp his jungle and make his life hell. for example Elise Khazix LeeSin Pantheon Shaco Udyr XinZhao . and then end the game before 30mins because if you delay the game he will just scale the longer the game goes and when he reaches his full build if you let it go that long well chances are you lost.

crippler38Sep 8, 20161 votes

on the shaco note if you go the oneshot build and sacrifice your own ability to teamfight kog won't survive without dedicated soraka/janna/lulu ready to react within the second it takes for you to kill him.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 8, 20161 votes

im talking about invading his jungle early levels. lvl 1-3 or whatever kog has no escape, is immobile and slow and dont have burst damage with out items/scaling. if you noticed all the champs i listed are strong early game champs. that can either 1 vs 1 someone at early levels or can easily counter jungle. also if these champs get fed early they can snowball hard.

crippler38Sep 8, 20161 votes

yes yes I know but as an added bonus some of those champs (namely kha shaco and vi most pointedly in my mind) are very good at singling out and wiping out anything lacking more than 3 defensive items late game, pretty sure xin and lee also can control him a little bit and elise has the stun to maybe control hi, panth and lee late game I think are kinda boned, but if someone takes koggles adc you can still rely on some of these champions to later on in the game control the koggles because of his aforementioned lack of escape or self peel besides a slow.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 8, 20161 votes

fair enough i might of misunderstood the 1st comment. if so my bad. but yea you gotta be able to get to him. so you need champs that have dive/burst potential

crippler38Sep 9, 20161 votes

I get misunderstood constantly due to my poor ability to communicate with others despite being a native english speaker, OH BY THE WAY ANYONE STUMBLING ON THIS COMMENT CHAIN SHACO IS LIKE RENGAR BUT BETTER IF YOU BUILD HIM TO ONESHOT HIS FIRST AUTO DOES OVER 1300 WITH ONLY 4 ITEMS (warrior tiamat shiv IE) SO THERE YOU GOOOOOO

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 9, 20161 votes

no problem i just didnt know the term "chain" shaco. and hey i hear ya man i speak 3 languages and one partly , i speak English, American and Texan and a lil spanish

crippler38Sep 9, 20161 votes

the term I said was 'comment chain' actually, a chain of comments, as in each of our comments and replies is linked together in a chain.

SSJTribeSep 9, 20161 votes

It's because you don't use proper grammar or sentence structure. Not trying to be a Grammar Nazi about it, but trying to help you out.

I get misunderstood constantly, due to my poor ability to communicate with others despite being a native English speaker. Oh, by the way, to anyone stumbling on this comment chain, Shaco is like Rengar, but better. If you build him to oneshot, his first auto does over 1300 dmg with only 4 items: (warrior tiamat shiv IE).

crippler38Sep 9, 20161 votes

see that looks the exact same to me even if you add commas and punctuation.

SSJTribeSep 9, 20161 votes

Interesting. Still, that's the root of your problems, maybe give it a try in your next discussion?

crippler38Sep 9, 20161 votes

What I've taken to doing is taking the easy way out.

Splitting up every thought via the enter key in order to section it off so that those who cannot just look at something and figure out what it means can read it better.

It tends to work out well enough for the majority of people.

SSJTribeSep 9, 20161 votes

That definitely works too!

Horse GrenadesSep 8, 20165 votes

WHat if Kog lands Q?

Auz the RipperSep 8, 20161 votes

what kog'maw actually levels Q before level 13?

Supreme Senpai69Sep 9, 20161 votes

If facing a Rammus, all of them I'd think.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 8, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JehNhrrz,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-09-08T13:02:10.889+0000)

cuz right now with the kog jungle build rammus dont have a shot.

why are you buying armor pen?. if you need any sort of pen. get voidstaff

DunkinNoobsSep 8, 20169 votes

Adapt my picks to my opponent? How DARE you suggest something so utterly ridiculous. Next thing you know, you're gonna tell me to adapt my picks to MY team too.

TequilaZombieSep 8, 20164 votes

WOW calm down there! What you gonna say next? Build items according to the enemy champions? I have MobaFire for that!

4789Sep 9, 20162 votes

Wtf is a mobafire? Just stack armor on malphite you brain dead rancid infernal slut (hope u understand it's a joke, don't flip ur shit)

TequilaZombieSep 9, 20161 votes

What? Not using Mobafire? How else I'll get pro build from silver 3 players? It's either Mobafire or you can use Riot's recomended items. We all know all Riot players are pros.

PS: Next time I rage at someone, I'll call them rancid infernal sluts.

crippler38Sep 9, 20161 votes

you're rancid because you're a zombie you're infernal because tequila burns and you're a slut because a drunk zombie probably puts its mouth on anything it can (if ya know what I mean)

TequilaZombieSep 9, 20161 votes

You actually made a fair point. No offense taken.

crippler38Sep 9, 20161 votes

hurrah my joke was understood

The DeckownerSep 8, 20168 votes

because it isn't worth it, having a champion that counter 1 enemy often means 2~4 enemy counters the fuck out of you, and counter pick in league is nowhere as good as in dota. instead of picking a champ who is 200% efficient against 1 champ and 50% against other 4, it is better to pick a champ who just perform 150% against all champions.

RalanrSep 8, 20165 votes

Because people just want to play their mains and not have to counterpick.

Or they don't want to spend RP/IP on champions they don't have to counterpick certain champions.

Meep ManSep 8, 20162 votes

Ok, that's fair. But I feel like then you don't have the right to complain about certain champions being played so much when the champions that are supposed to put them in check aren't getting picked.

RalanrSep 8, 20163 votes

People are rarely concerned about whether they have the right to complain about something. People can and will complain about anything.
Sometimes a counterpick isn't obvious or well known, leading to people assuming there is no counter.

Supreme Senpai69Sep 9, 20161 votes

I hate that if a Bltizcrank is picked, I have to be Morgana. I hate that if Morgana is picked, I can't be Blitzcrank. I hate that if Sona is picked, I have to be someone like Blitzcrank. I hate that if Leona is picked, I have to be Janna.

I hate how the game is basically decided in champion select. Champions counter each other too hard, and I just want to play what I want to play. If Blitzcrank is played a lot, that means I play a lot of Morgana. But that gets boring after hundreds of games so maybe the next time the enemy chooses Blitz I'll pick Soraka. I feel like I still have the right to complain about how he can miss 11 Qs but if he lands the 12th it's an auto-kill.

MarshbouySep 8, 20164 votes

Because the top lane garen mains are going to randomly pick up kayle or graves just becasue darius is strong.

D357R0Y3RSep 8, 20164 votes

counterpick is overrated in league of legends

in dota2 95% of the heroes are good by themselves, and that's why you can pick one to counter an other. proof is that when axe was garbage none picked him against dazzle.

now, can you pick rammus against kog when there are so much better junglers than rammus, and much better tanks?

LankPantsSep 8, 20163 votes

There's always a tradeoff to any pick. Sure I could learn Yasuo counters #1,2 and 3 but is it really worth it? That champion is banned in most games. Learning those champions is only very rarely beneficial since I should expect Yasuo to be banned anyway.

I'd be likely to get better results by playing what I'm good at rather than dividing my attention to other champs just to counter Yas in 1/10 games when he gets through AND is on the enemy team. This is basically the reason why people stick to mains.

SasogwaSep 8, 20163 votes

maybe because the counterpicks are also bad in general against other metagame picks?

NarvuntienSep 8, 20163 votes

Because the advantage of having a counter pick is not a big enough of a bonus to play it over a champion that is just better.

As noted above beating one champ doesn't mean that much against the other 4. those percentages are too high.

If your lane match up is about 58% but you are at 45% against the other champions, it is still better to be 50-50 with a champ that is 53% against the other lanes.

EnloctSep 8, 20163 votes

Most of the OP champions have no weaknesses. You cannot counter a champion with no weaknesses. It's particularly bad in the jungle. Gragas, Nidalee, Reksai, Graves do not have counters because none of them have any weaknesses.
If they do have a counter, you then have to play that counter. If the counter is remotely complicated, you're going to fail horribly. Since Riot is all about #LCSBigPlays, most of the simple champions are utter trash and not worth picking counter or not. Even if they're not, you still won't be familiar with their damage and can't play them optimally. You can also be screwed if you don't have proper runes for that champion. Your example, , in particular requires a specific rune setup. Basically, just because you know a counter exists doesn't mean you should play it.
Even if you counterpick, they can play around you. If they are truly an OP champion, they then swap (anyone), roam , or turn the lane into a farmfest . Then come lategame, you lose, because you are a regular champion and they are OP (by definition in this thread).

Basically, by countering, you're more often screwing yourself over than the enemy. Most players only have a pool of 1-5 champions they can really play at their best and have to make do within that.

Pika FoxSep 8, 20163 votes

Because you are better off playing what you know how to play than a "counterpick" you only vaguely know how to play.