Karthus' requiem vs counterplay

Wolfeur··4 votes·1,462 views

#The problem Karthus' ultimate really has a counterplay problem. Too easily, innately countered through the opponent's kit: Bard Ekko Elise Fiora Fizz Kalista Kayle Kindred Kled Malzahar MasterYi Nocturne Ryze Shaco Sivir Soraka TahmKench Taric Tryndamere Vladimir Zed Zilean All of these have a way to dodge, nullify or prevent the ability, for themselves or others. This is without considering shields and heals (except raka who's already mentioned for obvious reasons).

Aside from that, there are: item 3102 item 3157 and now Edge of Night (on a ridiculously low cooldown) again without Heals and Shields

And now, there is the honeyfruit, too.

The heals and shields are important since the channel allows 3 seconds of preparation, meaning that Janna can effectively use her ult or a ADC use LS despite being an over-time heal against a burst effect, that Soraka can spam heals and that Taric ult and the new redemption item can also be cast reactively.

I'm not complaining about any of these mechanics, items or kits. But that's a lot of easy ways to avoid such a strong ability with such a high CD. The worst offenders are those who can get back those abilities so quickly it doesn't feel like a tradeoff.

#My (very simple) idea The channel is a way to give time to coordinate to minimize the impact, and take difficult long-term decisions. Heals, shields and immunity are usually most potent on supports and team-focused abilities, making coordination and teamplay a needed component for a good execution. However, spell shields and untargetability are most often instant and personal effects, making them ridiculously easy to execute.

##The idea would be to make Requiem pass through spell shields and untargetability.

It removes most of the worst offenders but still gives clear counterplay. It also removes the biggest frustration. Instead of "Ok, Sivir pressed E, I can't do shit…" or "Zed just bought a core item with MR and a 30s CD spell shield, I'm going to commit suicide", it will be "Damn, that Taric managed to ult both those low-life targets just in time, we'll have to prevent it next time."

12 Comments

Elite4Runner2 votes

This is a global ultimate that auto-targets all living champions. ...

He can literally be standing on his own fountain. He can even be dead for crying out loud!

This discussion is so tired

Ahristocats2 votes

your problem is that if karthus didn't have this huge counterplay, requiem would be gamebreakingly overpowered, because it's a global spell that deals 1k damage., which is the reason it has 160 seconds cd at lvl 3 unlike other global spells

my idea is to reduce the damage by correct amount, do what you said (make it go through immunity), and reduce the cooldown/mana cost.

Wolfeur1 votes

It doesn't go through immunity, only untargetability

Wolfeur1 votes

The thing is to avoid the easy, tradeoff-lacking counters that put Karthus' viability into oblivion

Ahristocats1 votes

and that's why you should reduce the damage

beside, i always found it dumb that a global spell would deal so much damage with the only counterplay is "it's delayed" it forces hard counters, and it makes you feel terrible if you can't do anything.

reduce the damage to 150/250/350(+0.4 AP), reduce the cooldown to 100/90/80 and either make it going through untargetability, or give it utility like giving vision.

Wolfeur1 votes

It's not the only counter. It is clear that you'll always need heals and shields against Karthus. It's not that much of a hard counter since it requires proximity and coordination.

Reducing damage and cooldown is not a bad idea by itself, but I wouldn't be so sure it's the best call.

BUDDHISTINK1 votes

Sounds dumb.

Wolfeur1 votes

Please, elaborate

hOrnn1 votes

Ryze has counterplay to karthus ult for his whole team, why did you leave this out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLyshMo6BY4

proof

Wolfeur1 votes

Didn't know that oO

hOrnn1 votes

yup, karthus is not worth complaining about tbh, hes very weak like kassadin he scales but needs alot of farm to do so.

basically he has no favorable matchups.

SomeLink1 votes

Things that can block/mitigate karthus ult. Alistar Annie Azir Bard Braum Diana Ekko Fiora Fizz Galio Gangplank Ivern Janna Karma Kassadin Kayle Kindred Kled LeeSin Lulu Lux Malzahar Maokai Morgana Nami Nautilus Nidalee Nocturne Nunu Orianna Riven Rumble Ryze Shaco Shen Sona Soraka TahmKench Taric Thresh Tryndamere Udyr Urgot Viktor Vladimir Yasuo Zilean Nautilus Things I threw in: Heals, shields (self and not). spell shields, immunity, damage reduction. I tried not to throw in resistance increases (damage reduction is like annies or ali who have -30, -70% damage taken).

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