TANKS NEED SOMETHING LIKE THIS

CaptainAntiHeroz·Jul 20, 2019·14 votes·8,632 views

800 health +100% health regen heal 300 health over 5 seconds on a takedown

I think if the item built out of instead and had a passive that made the champ do a bit less damage but have a bit of tenacity with 100 health over 5 seconds +10 per level on takedown with the health lowered to 600 and a bit of magic resist and armor that tanks would have a much better time overall (and yes not on tree line in the actual summoners rift)

(Edit 1, tenacity removed currently has 600 hp, 30 armor and mr, 100% health regen, self damage stat reduction (but doesn't effect health scaling damage abilities like braum q, sej w, etc), and a unique passive of healing 100+10(per level) health on a takedown over 5 seconds)

47 Comments

hiyaresJul 20, 20198 votes

honestly its a useless item for most tanks in general it would be better to just go warmongs into sprit visage and then take the run that gives 12% of missing hp per kill/assist. same comcept better stats and the items are kinda a given together with how they both synergize. what tans need is a litteral all around buff to resistances ike some kind of rune or even n item that has the opposite effect of conq. like after so many seconds in combat reduce all incoming damage by 10 percent or something anything or every other attack from an enemy is half damage. at this point just having hp is useless for most tanks becasue the way the meta is atm if you cant just burst someone it ends up being that the tank will just slowly die when you take all the life steal in the game into acct.

Tahminatrix Jul 20, 20194 votes

Tanks need sustain in general but I don't think a flat amount that scales flat with level is what they will want..

Maybe convert it into a low % max health over 5 seconds + % per level.

Because that just makes me wanna stack as much armor and magic resist as possible in order to utilize the item and then I fell into the noob trap and became victimized by item 3071 and item 3135

CaptainAntiHerozJul 20, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTLcNu9H,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-20T20:48:22.589+0000)

Tanks need sustain in general but I don't think a flat amount that scales flat with level is what they will want..

Maybe convert it into a low % max health over 5 seconds + % per level.

Because that just makes me wanna stack as much armor and magic resist as possible in order to utilize the item and then I fell into the noob trap and became victimized by and

item 3135 in particular is too strong especially since mages can get 1000+ ap

NyarlathοtepJul 20, 20194 votes

{quoted}

in particular is too strong especially since mages can get 1000+ ap

Wat. 1000+ ap? Veigar can but outside of him (or infernal), i dont think anyone else can. AND BEFORE you start spouting nonsense i shall provide some stats.

(u.gg)

Ahri, full build: sorc boots, ludens, morello, zhonyas, void, dcap. 0+90+70+75+70+120+40%= for a grand total of 595. I didnt bother adding in the equation the shards or a possible gathering tempest for obvious reasons. Shards are pretty small (18 ap max) and gathering tempest because it needs for the game to reach heavy late. Even with this ahri would reach at most 720.

And just for the giggles lets see anivia: sorc boots, roa, seraph's embrace, zhonyas, liandrys, dcap/void. 0+100+50+75+75+120+3%max mana+40%= 701. However anivia might have to take void for more armoured targets so this value would drop by a significant amount.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 20, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Wat. 1000+ ap? Veigar can but outside of him (or infernal), i dont think anyone else can. AND BEFORE you start spouting nonsense i shall provide some stats.

(u.gg)

Ahri, full build: sorc boots, ludens, morello, zhonyas, void, dcap. 0+90+70+75+70+120+40%= for a grand total of 595. I didnt bother adding in the equation the shards or a possible gathering tempest for obvious reasons. Shards are pretty small (18 ap max) and gathering tempest because it needs for the game to reach heavy late. Even with this ahri would reach at most 720.

And just for the giggles lets see anivia: sorc boots, roa, seraph's embrace, zhonyas, liandrys, dcap/void. 0+100+50+75+75+120+3%max mana+40%= 701. However anivia might have to take void for more armoured targets so this value would drop by a significant amount.

item 2139 +Baron+Drag and your well over 1000 especially with the right runes and items

NyarlathοtepJul 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

+Baron+Drag and your well over 1000 especially with the right runes and items

You arent very smart are you? How many times did you reach late, had the pot, had baron AND at least 2 infernals?

Critmaster GarenJul 21, 20193 votes

{quoted}

You arent very smart are you? How many times did you reach late, had the pot, had baron AND at least 2 infernals?

how many times did a mage actually reach more than 800 ap in previous seasons?

people have rose colored glasses on this one. more than 600 ap on a completed build has never been the norm in the history of this game. even in season 1, the only way to get 1000 ap was with troll builds like item 3003 stacking.

and right now, the only one who gets this is veigar.

it is however to note, that a lot of ap scalings got all around buffed directly in mage kits during the mage update. ap on items had generally been made less available at the time in favour of more hp and lane safety against assassins as a result, and riot buffed the ap scalings and kit inherent damage still to a point where mages dealt noticably more damage back then.

these ap nerfs on items were later reverted for the most part, but mages kept a lot of the damage increases in their kits.

its very similar to what they did with the critical strike item changes, when crit items were midgame nerfed, most marksmen in the game buffed like crazy as a compensation for the crit changes effectively nerfing them, and then the crit changes reverted without also reverting the marksmen buffs.

Daddy AntsJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTLcNu9H,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T08:16:32.895+0000)

how many times did a mage actually reach more than 800 ap in previous seasons?

people have rose colored glasses on this one. more than 600 ap on a completed build has never been the norm in the history of this game. even in season 1, the only way to get 1000 ap was with troll builds like stacking.

and right now, the only one who gets this is veigar.

it is however to note, that a lot of ap scalings got all around buffed directly in mage kits during the mage update. ap on items had generally been made less available at the time in favour of more hp and lane safety against assassins as a result, and riot buffed the ap scalings and kit inherent damage still to a point where mages dealt noticably more damage back then.

these ap nerfs on items were later reverted for the most part, but mages kept a lot of the damage increases in their kits.

its very similar to what they did with the critical strike item changes, when crit items were midgame nerfed, most marksmen in the game buffed like crazy as a compensation for the crit changes effectively nerfing them, and then the crit changes reverted without also reverting the marksmen buffs.

I don't think I've ever managed to pass 1000 AP on any Mage who isn't Veigar since like Season 6.

I've come close in ARAM but never managed to pass 1000.

Sir GusiJul 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I don't think I've ever managed to pass 1000 AP on any Mage who isn't Veigar since like Season 6.

I've come close in ARAM but never managed to pass 1000.

Build item 3003 item 3100 item 3907 item 3285 item 3089 (yes a second one with no boots you get movement speed from items, also take gathering storm then you can sell a item for pen later)

NyarlathοtepJul 21, 2019

how many times did a mage actually reach more than 800 ap in previous seasons?

Since mage update ap items LOST ap in favour of other stat. Mainly cdr and mana.

people have rose colored glasses on this one. more than 600 ap on a completed build has never been the norm in the history of this game.

Before the mage update the norm was around 800 wtf are you smoking?

it is however to note, that a lot of ap scalings got all around buffed directly in mage kits during the mage update.

No they didnt.

Vlad: lost damage in q Malz: lost damage in q and e. R got number changes. Cass: q got buffed, new w and e got number changes. Zyra: q lost damage. Brand: passive got buffed but the damage on his spells got nerfed. Vel: passive got buffed the rest of his kit minus ulti got damage nerfs. Anivia: lost damage in q. Annie: tibbers lost damage and his aa gained an ap ratio. Swain: got a q change, and e increase in ratio. Syndra: q ratio got increased. Veigar: r numbers got adjusted. Viktor: overall got buffed. Xerath: damage wise untouched. Ziggs: passive ratio got buffed.

mages dealt noticably more damage back then

No. It seems like they deal more damage because they have way less cdr. Back then you had to opt for cdr in exchange of raw power. Now thats not true.

Critmaster GarenJul 21, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Before the mage update the norm was around 800 wtf are you smoking?

go back and watch some videos of older games. i already did this whole discussion with another guy a couple of month ago who tried to argue with me.

a full 6 item ap build including deathcap got up to 700 ap in season 4.

youre literally just remembering the full stacked mejais deathcap games that went up to 800 ap and almost 900 with baron buff and blue pot.

that was the maximum value you could stack up on multiple buff sources and was never the norm. you can still do this today.

especially since runes can grant a lot more ap these days. at 40 minutes you get almost 50 ap just from gathering storm. then you have absolite focus or transcendence in addition to that.

Daddy AntsJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTLcNu9H,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-21T09:53:24.278+0000)

go back and watch some videos of older games. i already did this whole discussion with another guy a couple of month ago who tried to argue with me.

a full 6 item ap build including deathcap got up to 700 ap in season 4.

youre literally just remembering the full stacked mejais deathcap games that went up to 800 ap and almost 900 with baron buff and blue pot.

that was the maximum value you could stack up on multiple buff sources and was never the norm. you can still do this today.

especially since runes can grant a lot more ap these days. at 40 minutes you get almost 50 ap just from gathering storm. then you have absolite focus or transcendence in addition to that.

40 minute Gathering Storm is 80 AP.

NyarlathοtepJul 21, 2019

go back and watch some videos of older games

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7KMFYvQ58Q

Back at season 4. The dude has 2 d-rings and has reached 500 ap. And i think athene's back then gave 60 ap. So yeah. Assuming he wanted to go maximum ap he could with ease reach 800+.

at 40 minutes you get almost 50 ap

How many games reach 40 mins? Most people forgo it to pick scorch because early game is so much more important.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You arent very smart are you? How many times did you reach late, had the pot, had baron AND at least 2 infernals?

multiple times, its called playing objective focused and farming well, and even without that 600+ is already more than almost ever ad champ can ever hope to reach outside of Jhin and the fact that they can slap item 3135 on top of having that much ap and call it fair for a tank with 200+ magic resist against a full ap team to still lose because 1 mage with over 600 ap bought 1 item to shut the tanks whole kit down

NyarlathοtepJul 21, 2019

multiple times, its called playing objective focused and farming well

Omegalel. Thats literally all i can say to such a statement xD. Actually yeah you are right. You CAN control which drakes spawn AND always make sure to take them.

and even without that 600+ is already more than almost ever ad champ

Ye-not really. Ad champs dont reach these numbers because their aa have 100% ratio. Some dont make much use of aa but once their abilities are on cd they can fall back to aa to deal damage. Mages dont have such an option (or ap users on general).

and the fact that they can slap

Because hp works wonders vs burst. Again, once an ap user has blown their kit they have to wait a couple of seconds to be up. They cant just aa to deal dmg.

on top of having that much ap and call it fair for a tank with 200+ magic resist against a full ap team to still lose because 1 mage with over 600 ap bought 1 item to shut the tanks whole kit down

Yeah bullshit. Unless the mage in question is azir or cass there is no way in hell a full ap team wins against a tank with so much mr. EXCEPT the tank's team literally thrown the game to the next dimension. Because thats the only way for them to lose.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Omegalel. Thats literally all i can say to such a statement xD. Actually yeah you are right. You CAN control which drakes spawn AND always make sure to take them.

Ye-not really. Ad champs dont reach these numbers because their aa have 100% ratio. Some dont make much use of aa but once their abilities are on cd they can fall back to aa to deal damage. Mages dont have such an option (or ap users on general).

Because hp works wonders vs burst. Again, once an ap user has blown their kit they have to wait a couple of seconds to be up. They cant just aa to deal dmg.

Yeah bullshit. Unless the mage in question is azir or cass there is no way in hell a full ap team wins against a tank with so much mr. EXCEPT the tank's team literally thrown the game to the next dimension. Because thats the only way for them to lose.

A bunch of ap champs have spammable abilities that means these champs dont have to wait for things to come off cooldown because it barely has a cooldown, and if having a lot of ap on top of a item 3135 isnt enough for you to ruin a tanks day you still have item 3151 item 3165 on top of that to amp up damage + give more pen respectively Its especially dumb on Veigar who has a point and click execute with infinite scaling that he can buy pen to make sure he can kill even tanks Plus Velkoz has passive true damage regardless of pen, which means buying pen makes him more potent And also Syndra who can level up to eventually gain true damage

The point is there is too much damage for playing tank to even be fun and they need either compensation to feel better able to deal with the damage in the game as it is or items that will help them do so, and I'd rather not see them try to balance each and every tank especially with their recent track record

NyarlathοtepJul 22, 2019

A bunch of ap champs have spammable abilities

Do they? Lets look some cooldowns between mages and ap assassins. However first we have to define spammable abilities. A spammable ability (imo) is an ability that has base cooldown of 5 or less.

Lux, a rather famous mage and for a while she seems op, has NOT spammable abilities. The lowest being her q at 9 seconds.
Ahri, another infamous mage has 1 ability that fills the above criteria. Her w being at 5 seconds. Brand, has not spammable abilities. However all of them are pretty low, late game his q w and e have a cd of 6 8 6. Cass, has however spammable ablities. Her q has a base cd of 3.5 and e 0.75. Karthus, has a spammable ability. His q has a base cd of a single second. Ryze has a spammable ability. His e with a base cd of 2.25. Although one could argue that his q can count as spammable because of its passive that resets its cd each time e or w are used. Swain has a spammable ability. His q with a base cd of 4 secs. Taliyah has a spammable ability. Her q at a cd of 3 seconds. Karma has a spammable ability. Her q at a cd of 5 seconds. Orianna has a spammable ability. Her q at a cd of 3 seconds. Ziggs has a spammable ability. His q at 4 seconds cd. Xerath has a spammable ability. His q at 5 seconds cd. And lastly, veigar and syndra have spammable abilities. At 5 and 4 respectively (both q).

Lets see about ap assassins (and sylas). Akali has 1 spammable ability. Her q at a cd of 1.5. Evelynn has no spammable abilities. Fizz has a spammable ability. His w at a cd of 5 seconds. Kassadin too. But its his e at 5 seconds. Katarina has no spammable ability although its debatable considering her passive.
Lastly sylas has 1 spammable ability. His q at a cd of 5 seconds.

Out of 32 (or so) mages, 11 have at least 1 spammable ability. However there is a catch. There is a reason why base cds are as they are. Take cass's e for example. A single e hardly damages anything (NOTE: Cass is pretty much a hyper carry. As such late game a single e can hurt), whereas a single veigar w is a nuclear bomb. Some abilities are weak alone, but they truly shine when used repeatedly, such as swain, karthus, cass and ryze.

Another reason is how they operate. By that i mean their playstyle. Taliyah has low cd in q to make up for how her w and e work. E requires her w or an enemy dash. Karma has a low cd in her q because its her only damaging ability. Orianna and syndra have low cd in q because their kit literally revolve around their balls. Xerath and ziggs have low cds because said spells are easy to avoid. Veigar has low cd in q because w is impossible to hit if the target has eyes and is not movement impaired and his r is an execute.

Akali's q has low cd because she has limited energy pool. Its also her only form of waveclear. Fizz and sylas, i actually dont know. Either way fuck both of them.

snt enough for you to ruin a tanks day you still have on top of that to amp up damage + give more pen respectively

No and no. Liandry's just compliments void. Morello is bad against heavy mr targets. Also, amp up dmg=/= magic pen.

Its especially dumb on who has a point and click execute with infinite scaling that he can buy pen to make sure he can kill even tanks

His early game is stupidly abusable. And whats this hate about tanks dying to mages? Why shouldnt mages kill tanks?

Plus has passive true damage regardless of pen, which means buying pen makes him more potent

Since when its bad that some mages are effective vs tanks?

And also who can level up to eventually gain true damage

Its a rather small amount (for a tank). It mostly exists to pop squishies. Unlike vel's only her w can apply it.

I mean how the FUCK can you have a problem with a mage going liandrys and void to kill a tank but not a vayne going botrk (she doesnt even buy armour pen). Or every ad damage dealer (ad assassins mainly) going black cleaver and lethality? Ap damage dealers as a whole are the least of league's problems currently.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Do they? Lets look some cooldowns between mages and ap assassins. However first we have to define spammable abilities. A spammable ability (imo) is an ability that has base cooldown of 5 or less.

Lux, a rather famous mage and for a while she seems op, has NOT spammable abilities. The lowest being her q at 9 seconds.
Ahri, another infamous mage has 1 ability that fills the above criteria. Her w being at 5 seconds. Brand, has not spammable abilities. However all of them are pretty low, late game his q w and e have a cd of 6 8 6. Cass, has however spammable ablities. Her q has a base cd of 3.5 and e 0.75. Karthus, has a spammable ability. His q has a base cd of a single second. Ryze has a spammable ability. His e with a base cd of 2.25. Although one could argue that his q can count as spammable because of its passive that resets its cd each time e or w are used. Swain has a spammable ability. His q with a base cd of 4 secs. Taliyah has a spammable ability. Her q at a cd of 3 seconds. Karma has a spammable ability. Her q at a cd of 5 seconds. Orianna has a spammable ability. Her q at a cd of 3 seconds. Ziggs has a spammable ability. His q at 4 seconds cd. Xerath has a spammable ability. His q at 5 seconds cd. And lastly, veigar and syndra have spammable abilities. At 5 and 4 respectively (both q).

Lets see about ap assassins (and sylas). Akali has 1 spammable ability. Her q at a cd of 1.5. Evelynn has no spammable abilities. Fizz has a spammable ability. His w at a cd of 5 seconds. Kassadin too. But its his e at 5 seconds. Katarina has no spammable ability although its debatable considering her passive.
Lastly sylas has 1 spammable ability. His q at a cd of 5 seconds.

Out of 32 (or so) mages, 11 have at least 1 spammable ability. However there is a catch. There is a reason why base cds are as they are. Take cass's e for example. A single e hardly damages anything (NOTE: Cass is pretty much a hyper carry. As such late game a single e can hurt), whereas a single veigar w is a nuclear bomb. Some abilities are weak alone, but they truly shine when used repeatedly, such as swain, karthus, cass and ryze.

Another reason is how they operate. By that i mean their playstyle. Taliyah has low cd in q to make up for how her w and e work. E requires her w or an enemy dash. Karma has a low cd in her q because its her only damaging ability. Orianna and syndra have low cd in q because their kit literally revolve around their balls. Xerath and ziggs have low cds because said spells are easy to avoid. Veigar has low cd in q because w is impossible to hit if the target has eyes and is not movement impaired and his r is an execute.

Akali's q has low cd because she has limited energy pool. Its also her only form of waveclear. Fizz and sylas, i actually dont know. Either way fuck both of them.

No and no. Liandry's just compliments void. Morello is bad against heavy mr targets. Also, amp up dmg=/= magic pen.

His early game is stupidly abusable. And whats this hate about tanks dying to mages? Why shouldnt mages kill tanks?

Since when its bad that some mages are effective vs tanks?

Its a rather small amount (for a tank). It mostly exists to pop squishies. Unlike vel's only her w can apply it.

I mean how the FUCK can you have a problem with a mage going liandrys and void to kill a tank but not a vayne going botrk (she doesnt even buy armour pen). Or every ad damage dealer (ad assassins mainly) going black cleaver and lethality? Ap damage dealers as a whole are the least of league's problems currently.

Because on top of all this mages get item 3157 and or item 3003 Vayne doesnt buy , which is a big reason as to why tanks need more things, plus who the hell was talking about mages in the first place, we're talking about what tanks need to be fun to play again so your whole argument is not only irrelevant here but off topic

NyarlathοtepJul 22, 2019

Mages get zhonyas while the ad counterpart is maws, scimitar and ga. Seraph is bought only in an extremely small handful of champs. Anivia, ryze, cass, zilean and karthus are the ones that buy it. And even then seraph requires to be stacked to be well, of any of use at all.

Why we talk about mages? Because i had to dispel some bullshit. Then you launched another bullshit, TLDR you started talking about ap user. Ap users (assuming you are talking about dps) by pure quantity are mostly mages.

And considering what you are saying, you dont sound like you want tanks to be fun. More like, you want them to be immune to ap users as a whole.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Mages get zhonyas while the ad counterpart is maws, scimitar and ga. Seraph is bought only in an extremely small handful of champs. Anivia, ryze, cass, zilean and karthus are the ones that buy it. And even then seraph requires to be stacked to be well, of any of use at all.

Why we talk about mages? Because i had to dispel some bullshit. Then you launched another bullshit, TLDR you started talking about ap user. Ap users (assuming you are talking about dps) by pure quantity are mostly mages.

And considering what you are saying, you dont sound like you want tanks to be fun. More like, you want them to be immune to ap users as a whole.

sounds like someone didn't read the post at all

The EcdysiastJul 20, 20192 votes

Here's my suggestion for a Health-only first buy item for tanks that juggernauts/fighters wouldn't be able to abuse.

As you can see from the votes it hasn't gone off well. But that might be because of the passive I gave it.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Ec7Lwn2A-a-first-item-for-top-lane-tanks?show=flat&page=1

CaptainAntiHerozJul 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTLcNu9H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-20T20:48:29.807+0000)

Here's my suggestion for a Health-only first buy item for tanks that juggernauts/fighters wouldn't be able to abuse.

As you can see from the votes it hasn't gone off well. But that might be because of the passive I gave it.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Ec7Lwn2A-a-first-item-for-top-lane-tanks?show=flat&page=1

tanks really need 3 big things, something that combats % pen but isnt great if they dont have % pen, more tenacity options, and a bigger variation of hp items that help them maintain health while not being as strong as item 3083

The EcdysiastJul 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

tanks really need 3 big things, something that combats % pen but isnt great if they dont have % pen, more tenacity options, and a bigger variation of hp items that help them maintain health while not being as strong as

Well, the thing that combated % pen was the lower armor numbers and lower pen numbers of pre 7.9. But they made the defense+hp items more vulnerable to penetration and then buffed all % pen.

And they don't need more tenacity. You can bring Unflinching and Legend: Tenacity, which on top of Mercury Treads and Elixir of Iron is 73% total. No need for more.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTLcNu9H,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T01:25:56.595+0000)

Well, the thing that combated % pen was the lower armor numbers and lower pen numbers of pre 7.9. But they made the defense+hp items more vulnerable to penetration and then buffed all % pen.

And they don't need more tenacity. You can bring Unflinching and Legend: Tenacity, which on top of Mercury Treads and Elixir of Iron is 73% total. No need for more.

Upon inspection, I have no disagreement with the tenacity thing it just takes so much commitment to get

The EcdysiastJul 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Upon inspection, I have no disagreement with the tenacity thing it just takes so much commitment to get

Not particularly. Unflinching is already in resolve and you don't really need either of the other two options in its tier, and the differences between secondary trees matter the least for tanks so taking L:T isn't a detriment. Then it's just your boots and the elixir you buy on tanks anyway.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTLcNu9H,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T01:33:17.133+0000)

Not particularly. Unflinching is already in resolve and you don't really need either of the other two options in its tier, and the differences between secondary trees matter the least for tanks so taking L:T isn't a detriment. Then it's just your boots and the elixir you buy on tanks anyway.

I just really liked the idea of overgrowth too much for what it does

Critmaster GarenJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTLcNu9H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-20T20:48:29.807+0000)

Here's my suggestion for a Health-only first buy item for tanks that juggernauts/fighters wouldn't be able to abuse.

As you can see from the votes it hasn't gone off well. But that might be because of the passive I gave it.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Ec7Lwn2A-a-first-item-for-top-lane-tanks?show=flat&page=1

i feel like tank items should be available to juggernauts in general.

dont mind a few specialized tank items like stoneplate, as juggers have some specialized items aswell. but just something to keep in mind. juggernauts are all balanced in some way to scale with health, and thats a core stat for them. (darius and illaois q heals, yoricks ghouls and maiden, garens w, olafs passive, mundos passive and ultimate etc.)

on the other hand, tanks have a core theme of heavy scaling with resistance stats, either through high base health, or heal/shield sustain (maokai, zac, sion, nautilus), or resisance scalings in their kits (leona, sejuani, taric, malphite).

as a result, tanks and juggernauts share some of their core item pool. its important to realize that juggers arent just abusing tank items, but that the shared use of some of those items is intended. most notable items like spirit visage, dead mans plate, sunfire cape. i mean their win condition is often the same, and thats getting into the enemy team and staying there. tanks and juggers are just playing different roles in the same position.

GelsominoKillerJul 20, 20192 votes

Tanks need to deal less damage.

Then, we can give them something to not make them implode in a tf

CaptainAntiHerozJul 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Tanks need to deal less damage.

Then, we can give them something to not make them implode in a tf

if you read the whole post i covered them needing to deal less damage, also a comment on the post to go over how that could be worked out

"The problem stems from Pyke Vladimir + Chogath , because without damage decrease it makes vlad and pyke have bonus damage with triumph without having triumph, and cho..... already abuses stoneplate so...

If it were a flat ad/ap reduction of some kind it would allow tanks with #health damage like braum q, sejuani, etc to be more relevant and stay in fights with bursts of gradual healing if their team does well and gets kills prolonging them by a bit of health without being Dr.Mundo level healing"

XavanicJul 21, 20192 votes

what we need is to fix some of the core scaling issues within league, hitting 50% dmg reduction at only 100 armor is just outright bad scaling then armor pen needs to be nerfed, then damage can be nerfed for everyone since ppl aren't starting out with 30-40% dmg reduction at level 1, meaning dmg will actually go through, then things can finally be fixed so tanks are tanks, and dmg dealers are dmg dealers, additionally adcs will feel less overbearing as the won't survive being stupid, even when fed

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

what we need is to fix some of the core scaling issues within league, hitting 50% dmg reduction at only 100 armor is just outright bad scaling then armor pen needs to be nerfed, then damage can be nerfed for everyone since ppl aren't starting out with 30-40% dmg reduction at level 1, meaning dmg will actually go through, then things can finally be fixed so tanks are tanks, and dmg dealers are dmg dealers, additionally adcs will feel less overbearing as the won't survive being stupid, even when fed

this is also true

DUDE BROJul 21, 20192 votes

https://lolstatic-a.akamaihd.net/frontpage/apps/prod/preseason-2018/en_US/a6708b7ae3dbc0b25463f9c8e259a513d2c4c7e6/assets/img/runeBuilder/runes/108x108/9111.png

LordGeovanniJul 21, 20192 votes

Been advocating for This come to summoners rift from after they put the stupid 3000 hp limit on warmogs (and took offf the 3% max hp per second heal for a horrible base one).

Done25Jul 20, 20191 votes

Make it heal something like 50% max HP over 10 seconds after a takedown.

Daddy AntsJul 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Make it heal something like 50% max HP over 10 seconds after a takedown.

No.

Done25Jul 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No.

Yes.

LovelleJul 20, 20191 votes

I agree with everything except the "bit less damage" part. Only Cho'gath really benefits from such an item.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I agree with everything except the "bit less damage" part. Only Cho'gath really benefits from such an item.

The problem stems from Pyke Vladimir + Chogath , because without damage decrease it makes vlad and pyke have bonus damage with triumph without having triumph, and cho..... already abuses stoneplate so...

LovelleJul 21, 20191 votes

As long as the item doesn't have damage attached to it, then tanks can benefit from it. The main problem is that %hp damage is so prominent in the game, that rushing health (with no resistances) is almost like wasting gold. Warmogs is already a decent health item on tanks later on in the game. For the amount of disruption they can bring to a fight, they don't need to sustain like a juggernaut or a carry, what would benefit them is having %damage reduction (preferably through runes).

%damage reduction is what allows tanks to actually mitigate damage mid-late game. Without it, they just melt.

If champions like Pyke and Cho are too strong with tank items, then perhaps they should be nerfed directly (or even reworked) rather than holding back an entire class of champions itemization/scaling-wise.

On My Kill ListJul 21, 20191 votes

we had something like this in the past. it was in twisted treeline/dominion. i think it was 500 heal or something like that but for some reason riot removed the item. not even sure what the excuse was back then.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=On My Kill List,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTLcNu9H,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-07-21T00:21:17.729+0000)

we had something like this in the past. it was in twisted treeline/dominion. i think it was 500 heal or something like that but for some reason riot removed the item. not even sure what the excuse was back then.

not like it, THAT IS the item, it just changed over its lifespan and now it should make a return in a modified state to help tanks in this damage meta

ŚhunpoJul 21, 20191 votes

"heal 300 health over 5 seconds on a takedown", and what's stopping a champion like Katarina picking this up exactly?

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"heal 300 health over 5 seconds on a takedown", and what's stopping a champion like picking this up exactly?

the reduced ap/ad damage you get because you decide to buy an item that lowers your damage output in exchange for health and sustain

Sir GusiJul 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

800 health +100% health regen heal 300 health over 5 seconds on a takedown

I think if the item built out of instead and had a passive that made the champ do a bit less damage but have a bit of tenacity with 100 health over 5 seconds +10 per level on takedown with the health lowered to 600 and a bit of magic resist and armor that tanks would have a much better time overall (and yes not on tree line in the actual summoners rift)

I like it but I think it is a bit too strong

CaptainAntiHerozJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Gusi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTLcNu9H,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-07-21T09:36:40.001+0000)

I like it but I think it is a bit too strong

Just a concept, the tenacity has been talked out, their are a few good alternatives I hadnt considered so no tenacity on it anymore

overpoweredscrubJul 21, 20191 votes

I totally agree that a tank should be more durable similar to the time in the tank meta. BUT!! but the problem with tank meta was that not only were they insanely durable, but they were dealing big damage on their base damage and spells. So I think your idea of the item reducing their damage would be a good balance. I think items that give health and resistances should have a passive that reduces your damage output some so that your base spells and attacks do less damage to compensate you being harder to kill.

ZabulusJul 21, 20191 votes

you see all you guys talk about is this stuff while im just playing sion and going hybrid tank and bruiser. because who doesn't like to proc a titanic with a BC, Steraks, Thornmail, and spirit visage with merc treads. xd