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The reason the LoL is in such a terrible state

Jefftiffy··3 votes·1,013 views

It's the multiplicative values. So many have been added since S5. Stacking dragons with all multiplicative values to amplify gold while ahead but do less for those behind. New masteries that add extra scalings on the gold you have while ahead to widen the gap even more.

Stormraider's Surge also effects selfs slows (because removing limiters put on someones kit for a reason is a good thing). So even if it was ever actually useful, it would be broken on specific champs (like Tahm Kench) Grasp of the Undying adds damage and sustain to bruisers for building bruiser. (grasp of the undying very rarely helps a tank) Thunderlord's Decree helps to make every champion early game or burst orientated. Warrior's bloodlust removes the need to buy sustain early and let's people skip to damage safer. Fervor of Battle is actually being fixed (why it was better for casters I have no clue) but still gives high dps to AA champs without them having to build damage. Bond of Stone just flat out reduces damage (the hard to balance part of it), but it does help tanks do their job. Strength of the Ages adds sustain to some tanks and helps them beef up faster, but really doesn't have a niche. Windspeaker's Blessing is probably the most balanced mastery in all scenarios. Deathfire touch would be balanced if it made sense what counted as spells and what didn't.

The champ reworks have even been very showing of how much power creep there is. Brand rework does slightly lower single target damage for higher AoE damage and more combos, but they never solved him 1v1 nuking people or how much harass he puts out early, but doesn't fall off late game. I could go on and pick apart other champs that have yet to match Riot's design philosophy but I would be here for hours and it would be a wall of text.

Hell even the new dragons are yet another multiplicative value.

Infernal drake is a problem for the same reason stacking dragon was a problem before. Too much value for 8% on an easy objective (you can solo it as about 1/4 of junglers).

Cloud drake is pathetic (15 is less than 5% and its only out of combat) in comparison. Sadly it's the easiest one to balance due to the flat values.

Mountain drake is yet another snowball factor. 10% faster ending the game = 10% faster gold = 10% faster taking away safety.

Ocean drake is about the most powerful as it creates so much free sustain. 4% is a lot if you are even half hp or mana as it helps remove normal limiters and yet again encourage more snowballing.

The only thing they did to help relieve snowballing was making it harder to kill the final dragon for the enhanced bonuses making it easier to contest. HURRAY 2 for 5 on dragons made better but 3 for 5 on made worse.

Now the problem with the drakes is this. Every single one benefits the ahead team period. Multiplicative values always help whoever is ahead more than who is behind. Why is this game so snowbally currently? Because Riot has introduced so many multiplicative values.

And the sad thing is. Riot has yet to even pinpoint their problems. They are still blindly nerfing and buffing people trying to figure out why every change they make makes a large amount of champs pick or ban. But don't worry guys mage items are all different now to keep us interested while Riot still fumbles around with the little understanding they have left of their game.

Then there is the fact they have still yet to sit down and spend an entire patch on clarity which would help reduce how any toxic factors they have in their game. They try to reduce burden of knowledge but claim burden of knowledge is low when there are so many things that everyone needs experience to even know. (like what skillshot is a projectile and which ones aren't, Velkoz knock up for example looks like an AoE but is actually a projectile that explodes).

I'm not even going to involve solo queue being left out in all of this because that train is already being rode at max capacity even by their own employees.

Riot has basically turned the game from a neat network of scales into so many damn levers that they don't even know which ones change what when they pull them as they all have super technical formulas for how much each weight changes and where it ends up. You buff Fervor of Battle and of the sudden there is a new Tank Yi build from out of nowhere, but don't worry nows its more viable for everyone else. You nerf tank Yi then someone he counters pops up and then the cycle continues until they realize that it's the mastery then nerf the mastery and then spike the cycle on a different keystone mastery.

19 Comments

Vayne IRL1 votes

That's what has kept league alive for so long. It keeps everything changing so that it doesn't become stagnant. Why do you think no one plays TF2 or WoW anymore?

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

That's what has kept league alive for so long. It keeps everything changing so that it doesn't become stagnant. Why do you think no one plays TF2 or WoW anymore?

There is this magical thing called being able to keep track of and control your changes. If you lose control or even lose understanding you lose the game. Riot is at the point where they barely understand the state of their game anymore. Which is about the worst thing you can do to a game.

Losing sight on the game kills it. Look at Runescape. After they took away Free Trade years ago they lost about 25-40% of their player base. That has long since passed and look at where it is at now. It sits at about 30% of its old player count (arguably about 20% were bots), but that is still a huge loss in actual players because you didn't listen to the players or come up with an actual solution.

Dragfin2 votes

{quoted}

There is this magical thing called being able to keep track of and control your changes. If you lose control or even lose understanding you lose the game. Riot is at the point where they barely understand the state of their game anymore. Which is about the worst thing you can do to a game.

Losing sight on the game kills it. Look at Runescape. After they took away Free Trade years ago they lost about 25-40% of their player base. That has long since passed and look at where it is at now. It sits at about 30% of its old player count (arguably about 20% were bots), but that is still a huge loss in actual players because you didn't listen to the players or come up with an actual solution.

You don't have to a be a condescending POS. If you can't use your brain and adapt then go play another game. I am sure you will not be missed. This is your opinion. Myself and millions of others think the game is great.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

You don't have to a be a condescending POS. If you can't use your brain and adapt then go play another game. I am sure you will not be missed. This is your opinion. Myself and millions of others think the game is great.

What you call condescending. I call telling the truth as how it is. You being the POS by telling me I am stupid when I am pointing out thing that Riot and half the player base is to blind to look at. If you want to pretend and ride the Call of Duty train into the ground Riot will die just like it did. Call of Duty died by not changing then all of the sudden going hey we listened when half the player base left. The only way to fix a game is to listen to the playerbase who mean well not the people that just throw money at the screen to throw money it at. And even now CoD ignores it's playerbase while they continue to split and go their seperate ways.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

What you call condescending. I call telling the truth as how it is. You being the POS by telling me I am stupid when I am pointing out thing that Riot and half the player base is to blind to look at. If you want to pretend and ride the Call of Duty train into the ground Riot will die just like it did. Call of Duty died by not changing then all of the sudden going hey we listened when half the player base left. The only way to fix a game is to listen to the playerbase who mean well not the people that just throw money at the screen to throw money it at. And even now CoD ignores it's playerbase while they continue to split and go their seperate ways.

Lol, ok. Good luck with that BS. Go play another game troll.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Lol, ok. Good luck with that BS. Go play another game troll.

I'm the troll yet you can't even argue back with more than "You're a troll". Where is your argument. I don't see one. If anything that makes you the troll. The whole "You are wrong, but I won't give reasons why" is the entirety of your argument.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

I'm the troll yet you can't even argue back with more than "You're a troll". Where is your argument. I don't see one. If anything that makes you the troll. The whole "You are wrong, but I won't give reasons why" is the entirety of your argument.

You give zero facts. You give your opinion. I gave mine. Sorry you got butthurt. Like I said go play another game if you can't use the brain god gave you.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

You give zero facts. You give your opinion. I gave mine. Sorry you got butthurt. Like I said go play another game if you can't use the brain god gave you.

I have given plenty of facts.

Dragon is now harder to balance because of multiplicative values. Fact. Keystones are almost impossible to balance. Fact. Riot has yet to figure out the problem with this game. Fact. Riot hasn't addressed clarity. Fact. Multiplicative values help those who are ahead more than those are behind. If you want to argue on this. Multiply 100 by 1.08 you get 108. Multiply 90 by 1.08 you get 97.2. But add 10 to each original value. You get 110 and 100. 110-100=10. 108-97.2=10.8. Fact.

Opinions my ass. I have given facts and you want to argue and say they are opinions and that is your opinion. No it isn't that's called being ignorant. Have fun arguing with fact some more.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

I have given plenty of facts.

Dragon is now harder to balance because of multiplicative values. Fact. Keystones are almost impossible to balance. Fact. Riot has yet to figure out the problem with this game. Fact. Riot hasn't addressed clarity. Fact. Multiplicative values help those who are ahead more than those are behind. If you want to argue on this. Multiply 100 by 1.08 you get 108. Multiply 90 by 1.08 you get 97.2. But add 10 to each original value. You get 110 and 100. 110-100=10. 108-97.2=10.8. Fact.

Opinions my ass. I have given facts and you want to argue and say they are opinions and that is your opinion. No it isn't that's called being ignorant. Have fun arguing with fact some more.

Your words are all opinions, period. Go buy a dictionary and look up the word or send me your address and I will buy you one and highlight the word to make it easy on you.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Your words are all opinions, period. Go buy a dictionary and look up the word or send me your address and I will buy you one and highlight the word to make it easy on you.

I smell troll in this one. Mayhaps he forgot that his home is under the bridge.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

I smell troll in this one. Mayhaps he forgot that his home is under the bridge.

Just helping to educate someone in need. A very bad need. O-P-I-N-I-O-N, I hope that helps when you look up the definition.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Just helping to educate someone in need~~.~~, Aa very bad need. O-P-I-N-I-O-N, I hope that helps when you look up the definition.

For someone implying I have a bad education, your grammar skills are lacking. I fixed it for you.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

For someone implying I have a bad education, your grammar skills are lacking. I fixed it for you.

I hope you feel better that you corrected a simple mistake but it still don't help you understand the meaning of the word opinion.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

I hope you feel better that you corrected a simple mistake but it still don't help you understand the meaning of the word opinion.

No, I completely understand what the word opinion means. You obviously don't. Opinions are notions about something that aren't necessarily true while facts mean that they have been proven true. If you cannot come up with a valid argument against my statements which I claim are facts, and mostly everyone else on here will agree with (not necessarily how I go about them), then maybe just maybe your opinion about my fact is wrong. Opinions can be right or wrong facts are proven correct until otherwise demonstrated. If you can somehow find a way to unbake a cake, then baking a cake being permanent is no longer a fact.

Please don't try to lecture me on something you seem to have so little understanding of. Opinions and facts may sometimes overlap, but most of the time they are separate. I find it more entertaining than annoying that you try to annoy me by testing my intelligence, yet you can't even come up with an argument. And if you somehow find enjoyment in this, maybe it's time you step up your maturity as either you are in the real world and are blissfully ignorant or you have yet to even enter the real world where no one would actually put up with that.

There's a difference between walking up to you friends and slapping them because it's a running joke and walking up and slapping a complete stranger. And seeing as how the internet is based completely off context clues, and you are so intent on not giving an actual argument, I find it hard to believe that you actually are trying to argue and are just trying to have fun to cheer yourself up for whatever your problems are at home. If you want me to return hostility, I will not. If you continue to be mad or think its funny go ahead continue. But until you offer a valid argument, I will downvote you and ignore you. And if you wish to continue with snide comments, then a red would be happy to mute you on the forums.

Uzza 1 votes

Go play overwatch.

Jefftiffy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uzza ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JNtlbzUh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-22T14:20:16.453+0000)

Go play overwatch.

Much discussion. Much constructive criticism. Very wow.

I do and that's what my friend's and I play now over League. I'm one of the last people in my many circles of friends left playing league and it saddens me that no else would even think of coming back because Riot is so inept.

Jeddite1 votes

(1) Chinaland calls the shots. What's best for Tencent's bottom line is not congruent with the (Americaland) playerbase (2) Hiring game designers who can only aspire to be beta-males

Silly Neeko1 votes

To put it clear and simple, you have given many problems and no idea of any kind of solution to them. That causes more problems than it solves.

But besides that point, there are many different things that you did not think about in that list of "problems". To name a few, the dragons (under the watch of a support that knows what they are doing, junglers that know what they are doing, and oh hey.... wards much?) is probably the most watched jungle objective in the game. A jungler would be able to solo the dragon, but that would be a risky move with next to no reward in the long run..... possibly even being counter productive when the enemy jungler, adc, and support.... and possibly mid too, comes and kills the jungler and then takes the lovely leashed dragon. I have had games that the dragon was not even attempted by either side for 30 minutes+ because of how closely watched both sides knew the dragon was.

The dragons are also balanced because they rotate and its not the same dragon every time every game. If you think that Infernal dragon is going to change the game, ive also won games that the enemy team has had 5 dragons, elder dragon, and baron. It does make things much more difficult, but the problem most games have and why they last only 20 minutes is because people are just like "gg, we lose, game over, cant do anything." etc.... had a viktor in a game recently that was 3v1ed almost the entire game because of so many ganks, and they turned around and got a few kills.... and guess what? they started to win those ganks and surviving. Mentality and getting into peoples heads do much better at winning games or losing them than most anything else.

As for your example of tanky yi...... yi has always, and will always be in meta. Immune to slow, becomes untargettable with his alpha strike (which also does a hefty amount of damage), reduced damage and HEALS with his meditate, has increased damage.... which then turns into true damage.... and did i mention that he has a speed boost and attack speed boost and can hit twice every what is it... 4th hit? Pure damage has been out of style for all but the adc for a while... and even then the adc still picks up some defence and health. The only reason why yi was not tanky before was because they did not have titanic hydra. Fervor of battle had nothing to do with it. Fervor of Battle has been about the same for the most part for a long while, the only difference is that YOU finally saw it.

Keystones are all used for their own thing, everyone finds their own use for each of the nine keystones..... speaking of which, you think that warlords bloodlust is enough to keep you from needing early lifesteal and sustain? have you SEEN just how much it actually heals you? It is good if you can stay out of combat, but if you are constantly shooting minions, you are pushing your wave. You push your wave you get ganked. You get ganked you tend to die or use too much to get out, that you have to back and lose more gold and exp.

Fervor you have to stay in battle with a champion, which means you have to be able to hit them. Hitting them often causes minions to shoot you. If you have the ability to stick to them long enough for you to stack that fervor up..... they are either not kiting, or they know they can take you.

Thunderlord's decree..... honestly that is the only keystone mastery that i think should be tweaked a little bit currently. It is kind of sad seeing 5 thunderlord's decree on one team. Seeing as one of them was a Caitlyn, i think that sums up all i need to explain about it. If the auto attack portion was taken out of the thunderlord's, it would become much more balanced and would find itself used by those that actually make the best use out of it. Burst champions. Bard's meeps act as spell casts, so for those that say bard wouldn't have any way of procing thunderlords making it useless for him and therefor taking out the "only keystone that is good for him".... just have to wait till you get that 2nd meep following, would make it much more balanced as well for him because then its a little more risk for the reward, rather than "stunned, autoed with meep, proced, walk away scotch free" (and yes i am a support main who plays bard quite often, its still stupid how safe of damage he can pull off.... and i love playing tank bard with bond of stone).

Do not complain about the game if you do not take the time to come up with some kind of solution to it..... in Yi's case, hate the champion not the game. In Teemo's case, love the game, love the champion. Yi is made to be stupid strong with a major fault, he is all in or all out, and cc kills him. If your team does not have the cc to kill a Yi, or if your team does not know how to cc the Yi, you are probably in bronze or in silver. Yi is made to be strong because he is a starter champion. Same as Garen and same as Soraka etc, they all are stupid strong but they all have their major faults. It is up to the player to capitalize on the strengths and reduce the weaknesses.

Please do tell me how a Tahm Kench can manage to get rid of his own self slow while eating someone unless they manage to proc the stormraider's surge with their q and then eat you almost directly after.... And how many champions actually have a self slow that is AFTER you deal damage? Tahm's is during his W, which slows him hard and does not do damage until he spits them out. Blitzcrank's self slow is null and void with boots of swiftness just about. Xerath self slow is while charging up his Q..... so nope, not him either.... I am really not seeing how it nullifies or even really helps against the self slows on the champions. Perhaps you could enlighten us about how that goes about?

And if you are wanting a % for the cloud drake movement speed...... I have one word for you. Hecarim. I for one have seen too many of these being able to wipe out WAY too big of a chunk in health with just triforce and deadman's plate while charging. The out of combat movement speed is small, but it is noticeable. Even 1 movement speed more than a champion without a good engage is all you need to stay out of harms way. If you stay out of harm's way long enough, you get 15 more. It could get you to, or away from an enemy that is running away. 45 movement speed is like another set of boots to help you get to lane, helping allies, objectives, or getting out of danger. I would thoroughly enjoy you trying to explain how, if you could get it without any more space needed.... you would not want another set of boots. Even if they only work like mobility boots. But alas, you would not try to argue that because if you know the game as well as you claim to, you would know the benefit of movement speed.... even out of combat movement speed.... better than I would.

And because you just had to make the comment about it..... Grasp of the undying does not do as much damage as you may think. It helps yes, but you may as well just use a titanic hydra and go for warlords bloodlust for a bruiser. With pure tank, apart from a titanic hydra, the grasp of the undying makes a PURE TANK harder to kill and gives them extra damage. Yes that really does help tanks more than bruisers. Bruisers would do much better with titanic, visage, and warlords.... tanks with titanic (unless support or ranged then leave titanic out because your not doing damage), grasp, and then its all situational from there.

Enjoy the read, hope to be.... enlightened? by your reply if you can come up with any holes in my explanations. I would be happy to further explain about anything you want to question.

Now for my personal feels.

I do say however if you can only say criticism and have no helpful advice, do not complain about the game's "problems". Otherwise, You are the problem, and thus I will say if you do not like the game anymore because it is just not how you remember it.... and want it to become exactly the way it was before.... I do hope you stay over in Overwatch, because I for one get bored of the same game all the time, which is why I have stopped playing multiple other games. League of Legends changes slightly and then drastically, without actually changing very much at all. With each new champion comes a multitude more possibilities and tactics and things to see and fun to be had, and tears to be shed. Each new item comes new builds, champions coming and being played in different ways, and new meta's formed. This ever changing game that you think is so horrible, because you can't look past your own feelings and look at the logic behind what you are COMPLAINING about, is a game I will likely be playing for many years to come.

So please give your suggestions, comments, ideas, and concerns.... but leave flat out complaining on the battlefield where you will likely be slaughtered and then reported for feeding.

Leave the personal feels out of the logic that was put above it. They are separated for a reason.

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