Snowballing: 3-0s Worlds Semi-finals emulate aspects of "low-points" of the game for newer players

Fraggleroc·Oct 25, 2015·6 votes·881 views

Snowballing: 3-0s Worlds Semi-finals reflect aspects of "low-points" of the game for newer players

Pro european teams were punished hard for making small mistakes in the game. The nature of LoL's snowballing propelled the better teams to win all their games without respite.

Imagine what it would be like for newer players when they're punished by more veteran players. Most of the time, new players wouldn't know what they even did wrong and the unforgiving snowballing comes into effect.

Do you think it will be a more exciting game to watch if we tone down the snowballing aspects of the game? Subsequently the game also becomes more fun for newer players when they can come back from the more minute mistakes they made vs more veteran players?

Tone down snowballing- the advantages piling on top of advantages.

Pardon my english.

23 Comments

AdanYEvaOct 25, 20154 votes

snowballing ruined the game, you can see in ranked matches, a few kills makes someone so powerful that they can carry :/

SaiannaOct 25, 20151 votes

Tbh snowballing used to be ALOT stronger before, few seasons ago.

Right now only handfull of champions are allowed to snowball, while others don't seem all that powerfull even after few kills.

The Queen ViperOct 26, 20151 votes

What snowballing? Currently it barely exists.

ErockandrollOct 25, 20153 votes

You would be assuming that YoloQ players. (at lower ELOs I mind you) Would be able to make use of their snowballing advantage. Which usually isn't the case.

The main problem with the Snowballers is that they are duelists. Cause that's the only kind of champions who can carry like that when they have the advantage. (Glass cannons can still melt even when fed.) Fiora is By definition a Duelist. Doesn't care how much health you have. (Cause riot knows Duelists need to be transparent between fighting Glass cannons and tanks. And Juggernauts duel fairly well just because of how little damage they take.

But I wouldn't even argue that's what makes them strong. The problem I see with snowballers is, the some what need to be feast or famine, due to the fact that no one can duel them if they get ahead. Which in a way, makes the counter to snowballers is other snowballers.

kirbyzamaOct 25, 20153 votes

You realise that OG and FNC were playing two of the best teams in the world right? Who rarely make mistakes? Does that sound like low elo/lvl at all? I have won games easily from 8-10k deficits. If anything League doesn't reward snowball enough. Riot constantly nerfs snowballs with things like turret shields to buffer losing teams, limit warding which hurts winning teams who have more chances to ward than losing teams, weakening first blood, buffing teleport to keep exp even, nerfing damage costs making adc's slow to ramp up to end games early, removing dragon gold, and the list goes on.

Compare that to dota. I have seen match ups in dota where one's lane opponent can't even come back to the lane if they give up a kill. I don't want extreme snowballing like that but this game is extremely forgiving of mistakes.

Kitten of EvilOct 25, 20152 votes

I mean, you think League snowballs? Try Smite. Every game I played was like 40-8 by the end, with either my team or the enemy team just stomping the other.

SaiannaOct 25, 20152 votes

That sounds awful alot like HoTs :D

Kitten of EvilOct 25, 20153 votes

League is actually the least snowbally of MOBA games that i've played. You can be 10 kills behind and win with a good ace, or 10 kills ahead and lose if you don't make sure to control objectives.

FragglerocOct 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JK5NyEt7,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-25T20:19:42.048+0000)

League is actually the least snowbally of MOBA games that i've played. You can be 10 kills behind and win with a good ace, or 10 kills ahead and lose if you don't make sure to control objectives.

I'm not sure. I feel it's hard to comeback from a losing side. It's easier when u're winning to pile advantages upon advantages. I've just won and ended a game in 22mins just because someone fed at top lane. We shut them off from all sides. Must sucks for the other 4 players who didn't do that badly for the losing team. It was so easy to push in and dominate.

As in the FNC vs KOO games... it was merely a few bad moves by Huni at start. And everything became harder for FNC... systematically shut down.

Losing side should have more ways to comeback- like back in the days in Season1. Grant like a free temp boost to minions for side who lost base turrets or something... less xp/more gold for first kill... or small tweaks like that to the macro side of the game? Increased gold from killing more minions 'safely' as a compensation for a losing side is inadequate.

SaiannaOct 26, 20151 votes

Imo there shouldn't be any helping hand for losing team. Instead snowballing should be slightly trimmed.

The Sword SaintOct 25, 20152 votes

If you make snowballing completely nonexistent, you make it feel unrewarding to make good plays and encourage people to passively farm because there's no real benifit to be gained from taking a risk and coming out on top.

Without snowballing, the game becomes 'which team makes x amount of mistakes first' and so people will just not take any unnecessary risks. With snowballing being a thing, you take more calculated risks because you know that if it pays off then you'll have an advantage you can leverage later which will stack up to a win.

IcyPepperOct 25, 20152 votes

It's a swinging balance, if you ask me.

Too much snowballing potential leads to an assassin meta, where nobody wants to focus on teamwork and just want to carry.

Too much ability to deny snowballing leads to a tank meta, where nobody can carry and everybody relies on teamwork to do anything.

Too much of either isn't great, and trying to have both is a balancing nightmare.

Honestly, I'm starting to think it's impossible to perfectly balance this game.

NightseraphOct 25, 20152 votes

You really want to go back to the Season 2 stall meta? Go watch a game from those worlds, and tell me snowballs are bad, purely from a viewers perspective.

Slamurai JackOct 25, 20152 votes

Snowballing is already the weakest it's ever been in League. Making it any less snowbally just caters to bad players.

ZephyrDrakeOct 25, 20152 votes

so you want snowballing to be gone? might as well make the game a farmfest until 40 mins and then win a single fight and win the game since there is no reason to risk getting advantages. The game already has more than enough anti-snowballing things in place and adding even more is just going to degrade the game. New players need to learn and some boring ass game that is a farmfest for 40 mins isn't going to allow them to learn anything. new players need to learn that making mistakes will cost them the game and anyone with half a brain will understand the reason they died or the game went out of control.

"maybe i shouldn't have dived that turret 1v4" "maybe i should have waited for my team before going all YOLO" "maybe i should learn to use this minimap thing and this wards everyone keeps talking about". A game with no snowballing might as well be a dead game since it will just be a boring farmfest. EU teams got 3-0'd because their skills were inferior than those of the KR teams simple as that

YCitizenSnipsYOct 25, 20152 votes

So what you want is for teams to stand a better chance after making mistakes and not being punished as harshly for them. Don't you think thats kinda of unfair for team that worked to get the early advantage. We had "League of Late game" in early season 4 where the strategy was to turtle until you out scaled your opponent and it made for a terrible meta, don't think going back to that would be beneficial, also the snowballing in today's league is nothing compared to what it was in the past.

RebonackOct 25, 20151 votes

And I'm just over here in Dominion-land, enjoying my game mode where surrenders rarely ever happen and there's little if any snowballing.

FragglerocOct 25, 20151 votes

I think the champs are pretty balanced... and it's not a particular champ's problem. Maybe they can tweak first kill xp/gold or early game kill/farming xp/gold... things like that. Or something like tougher minions on the side who had lost base turrets... things like that. Tweak the macro game... not champs per se.

The problem is with the macro game I feel.

PSYCOsanches589Oct 25, 20151 votes

I'm going to call lies as last night I played a nocturne jungle game where by 15 minutes i hate like 5 kills and 3 assists. My team still lost horribly. Snowballing can often mean nothing if the enemy team as a whole is just better. However, this comes from a player who has no idea how to carry and never has, but ifI am that far ahead by 15 minutes, I think even I should be basically ending the game because me and my team mates should be out leveling and out farming the entire enemy team.

FragglerocOct 25, 20151 votes

I'm not referring to an individual snowballing btw. Once u get 2 kills... u can open up the map for everyone... gain more map pressure for everyone etc. There are many outlets on a macro level u can utilize to help u win the game. When u're on a losing side however, there are only so many things u can utilize to prevent enemies from dominating u. You can literally feel them 'squeezing in' on u until a point u're merely waiting for the eventual loss.

That makes for a boring game. It helps if there are other devices we can challenge to overturn this downward spiral.

FragglerocOct 25, 20151 votes

Not gone of course. U need it so u feel an achievement when u make a successful play or a kill.

But look at Worlds... it's not that exciting to watch. FNC is not a bad team by any means but the Koreans punished em on the tiniest mistakes they made until a point u could tell there are no/few means they could make a comeback. Or they could but it would be really difficult. Sometimes the pick/ban phase determined the game... other times swapping lanes/wrong rotations could mean gg for a team. The losing team could challenge baron/dragon... win skirmishes... win the ward game... but these are usually hard and there are just not that many avenues. Meanwhile the winning team's Gold is gaining leaps and bounds. Just saying add some other objectives on a macro level maybe?

To add- all the effects of the above are amplified for a new player to the scene vs a more veteran counterpart.

The Queen ViperOct 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Snowballing: 3-0s Worlds Semi-finals reflect aspects of "low-points" of the game for newer players

No. It only reflects that the other team was significantly better than the other.

{quoted}

Imagine what it would be like for newer players when they're punished by more veteran players.

Usually that kind of match-ups shouldn't happen in the first place... which makes it a matchmaking issue, which is a totally separate issue entirely.

{quoted}

Do you think it will be a more exciting game to watch if we tone down the snowballing aspects of the game?

No.

{quoted}

Subsequently the game also becomes more fun for newer players when they can come back from the more minute mistakes they made vs more veteran players?

Wrong. That would only make the game unfair... since naturally it wouldn't only affect new players, but all players. Would also negate learning progress since no matter how badly you would play, you could still win. Makes no sense whatsoever.

{quoted}

Tone down snowballing- the advantages piling on top of advantages.

No. Go back to your casual games please.

FragglerocOct 26, 20151 votes

I don't know about u guys. Once I get 2 kills in my lane, I feel my chances of winning is suddenly increased by a lot. The effect shouldn't be that great and it makes it boring. I know Riot tries to shorten the game down to a palatable average of 30minutes or so. The xp/gold gained feels too much at this point, esp. the xp. After I got the kills, all it takes is for the other lanes to not throw. Especially the lane furthest away from me as that would require a teleport to help them. I almost always carry teleports and predominantly play a sustained/slightly tanky (so I can face-check ward)/super high mobility champs in random-queue/blind picks. People move about randomly more often in random queues (not so much in ranked teams) so mobility is critical. I almost never pick champs that cant face-check brushes to ward deeper into enemy territory, unless I'm playing with reliable friends in a ranked team.

With outer tier turrets down and wards up deep into enemy jungle, everything just snowballs hard from there on a macro level. The first person affected is their jungler because with wards up in his jungle, u basically starve him. I think this is a crucial point. There's just no way for their jungler to comeback from that point without major risks. In pro team plays, his support/teammates will help him (to ward etc). In random queues, more often than not, he is left to his own.

Maybe there can be another device/objective for a jungler to comeback if his jungle is controlled? Like a flare enabled on a high cooldown that shoots from the base for use to light up part of the jungle very temporarily, only available when the outer tier turrets are down- to relieve some pressure of gold required for wards on the jungler? Or some other thing on a macro level. Dragon and baron challenge alone is not enough to cut it for the losing team.