were always intended to work in the mid lane but now they are played 90% as supports. why was this not addressed during zyras rework? and will morgs rework force her more into the support role aswell? pretty lame.
LadyRenly51 votesmorg can still midlane just fine. if anything, people kick and scream about her even being allowed mid because shes "uninteractive"
NineTailedMystic40 votesIt's true tho. Can't ever leave lane and roam because you'll miss a fuck ton of CS, can't all in her because of E, can't outshove her. She only dies if she gets cocky and gets aggressive.
Votable Jester14 votesShe should still be reworked with her being a mid laner in mind. I'm fine if she works in both roles, but if she isn't viable mid, I'll be supremely disappointed. She was my mid main last season (with a 71% win rate even), so I hope she can become one of my top mid lane choices again (currently Xerath with Ori and Lux backups. Working on adding more backups now).
I'm perfectly fine with her being heavy utility, but she has to still do some good damage with AP.
NineTailedMystic2 votesThe only thing(s) that can stay are a reworked Q (no more 2 to 3 year second snare + nuke for something as simple as a line skillshot), and her E and the E is the main attraction to her Support abilities.
Over Innsmouth23 votesIf you're getting hit by Morg's Q you deserve to sit there for the entire duration, that's kind of the tradeoff for it being so slow.
Velzard of Koz3 votesAlso, while Ahri needs to rank it up, it's funny Ahri main complained about that when Ahri can just hit one linear skillshot that's faster than Morg Q and you can't do anything for 2 seconds during which you're getting bursted.
NineTailedMystic2 votesI mean, at least Ahri has to rank up Charm for it to be 2 seconds, and doesn't nuke you by itself. (60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200 (+ 60% AP) Charm vs 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+ 90% AP) Binding. Charm does 2/3 the damage.)
Votable Jester3 votesAhri is less dependent on landing a charm though. You can still land your Q, W, and ult without landing charm. Morgana can get at most a couple tics of her W and can't reliably get off the second part of her ult (most people can get out of it in time unless you're directly on top of them).
NineTailedMystic2 votesAhri is plenty dependent on her Charm. In fact, her last set of nerfs/changes were to make her more reliant on it. Also, it's super easy for Morg to hit the second part of her R. It's got a slow attached to it, so she can just walk at them and keep up. They'll have to Flash or Dash to break it, plus it deals damage on cast and on end so it's not even like she loses everything for having them break the tether.
Morgan le Fey3 votesIt's a fairly small slow, and Zhonya's is considered core to Morg's kit because it's even easier just to kill her. Unless you're a mage or she's so stupidly fed that you're already dead anyways, Morg's squishier than Janna.
cuddlykitten43 votesAhri's charm not only makes you unable to act, you actually walk towards her. Morg's Q is just a snare that is extremely slow. As long as you aren't one of a few champs that have 0 ranged AA or abilities there is usually still something you can do. Plus, you will most likely be near minions waves to abuse them as bodyblockers in lane. You can still kill the minions as well.
Fools Hesltate5 votesAllow it to travel through the minion line in the same vein as brain dead mages like Syndra/Ahri and you got yourself a deal.
Morgana Q is one of the slowest skill-shots in the game, can't travel through minions/other champs and has a hitbox so wide it's easily intercepted. You would have more credibility complaining about her E or the oppressiveness of her W then her Q.
If Morg was a modern designed champ her Q would be a stun not a stare and she'd get a decaying MS speed buff everytime she lands it, or something ridiculous like that.
The steam life2 votesDid I just watch someone call syndra brain dead
Pinkstripe6 votes
Misses all skillshots; still oneshots ADC with ult*[sg-syndra]*
Game Balance.
But yeah, she does take skill. Bashing on Syndra for having a targeted ult is completely ignoring the rest of her kit.
NineTailedMystic1 votesThat's... not the point. Obviously if power would be taken out of it's damage/snare, missile speed would be a prime target for power to be shifted into. But right now, her Q is a 2 second to 3 second scaling Snare which two seconds base is absurd, on top of a 300 + .9 AP base damage + ratio. I know her kit is antiquated, but that's far too strong for just one slow skillshot with a broken hitbox. Like, at least Nidalee has some nuance to hitting her spears for big damage.
Morgan le Fey1 votesOn a kit that had other damage in it, maybe. Part of Morg's problem is that she has a very binary kit. Either you land Q and you have Zhonya's up, in which case you get your whole combo off on one person (and who knows about anyone else, all depends on teammates and positioning), or you miss Q and have to work very very hard to do anything useful except shield.
NineTailedMystic1 votesAnd being that binary is bad. Hit the Q and demolish anyone with a 1,300 + 3.4 AP combo, or shield someone.
Morgan le Fey2 votesShe definitely needs more power in other parts of her kit. It'd also be amazing if she wasn't so easy to killsteal from. She's designed around a slow burn, but her utility is so high that locking people down in her W makes it easy for allies to take the kills. Which... is why she's so often put in support, actually. It's still annoying, though.
The long-duration snare is something to stay, I think. It's sorta core to her identity - she is the champion with the longest-duration non-ult CC. Much as I love the burst from it, I'd be okay with losing some of the Q damage for a more interesting kit in other areas. Her passive immediately comes to mind, of course. >.>
Over Innsmouth4 votesWith respect, I disagree.
There's a place for reliable and fast skillshots like Ahri Q (only referencing it as it's the first thing that came to mind for linear, mage skillshots, not because of who you are), and a place for big reward/low reliability skillshots like Morgana's Q.
If every skillshot in the game was one or the other, it'd be boring, variety is fun.
On the topic of Morg's antiquated kit - which it is, it could use a wee bit of updating but doesnt need too much - her Q is (personal opinion) the most interactive and least needing work out of her entire kit.
Passive is just stats, W is an AoE no go zone that also allows her to afk waveclear, E simply negates aggression for X seconds or allows your DPS to wreck havoc (which is also interesting, but still doesnt allow for real enemy interaction other than waiting the shield out or blitzing it with some AP burst), and R is "in range and fucked" or "out of range and fine".
Q is granted, simple. You just dodge or die, but simple isnt always bad, and the balance that is the speed of the projectile weighed against the concequence of the cc duration is fair to me.
If I'm still missing your point, would you mind spelling it out to me?
It Hertz When IP1 votesHer E only shields magic damage. If you think you're facing Morg mid, grab a Yasuo, Zed, or something. Hell, Jhin might be a good lineup against her, dude's got the range to harass and her shield's only good against his traps.
nm10105 votesYasuo, Zed, and I would imagine Jhin are all free lanes for Morgana. The hardest one is Yasuo, but he literally can't ult her and post 6 she can set up super easy ganks with r.
Poske3 votesif i had morgana mid in my team I would dodge champion select
She is way to subpar
Starcraft243ver8 votesActually giving an anti-cc 600 or 700 magic damages shield to your twitch or kog late or even master yi late game is pretty gg
SociopathFriend14 votes
Riot balances champions around where they're played. Remember Blitzcrank? He's supposed to be a top-laner. But if a champion is constantly played in a position, Riot kinda has to acknowledge the playerbase is putting them there and balance accordingly.
Both of them CAN still work mid- but the playerbase uses them as supports. If a champion is seriously not meant to be in a certain lane (hello Malzahar) Riot will take steps to try and push them elsewhere. But in the end of the day- the playerbase decides where a champion mainly goes and where a champion mainly goes is what Riot has to balance around.
5050BS4 votesZyra was pulled and overwhelming voted to be a mid laner but they still forced her bot lane (because with Autofill if I was put Support I would pick Zyra, who I main as mid lane and so Riot thinks she is played more as support when)
SociopathFriend3 votesShe can be polled until the sun dies- what matters is actual in-game numbers. And those are presumably ending with Zyra being played support far more often than mid for several seasons now.
RiotNot Surrendering13 votesI wouldn't say we are happy with them as purely supports as long as their play pattern supports it, but at least in the case of Morgana, we are certainly happy she isn't played in midlane. Her play pattern in mid is quite non-interactive (wave clear from range, then punish you if you try to interact with her).
Ultimately, role diversity is something that we would like to achieve, but it can be hard to balance champions for multiple roles (not impossible though).
Zyra mid is something that we could potentially support but needs work that we're not prioritising at this point in time (things to solve: accurate threat representation of plants, making sure mid and support are balanced together, etc.)
Thryale8 votesOkay, so this is something I've noticed riot has been on about for a long time now, and it's starting to get to me. What is inherently wrong with some champs being "non-interactive"? Some times I want to play a champ and just put myself in a kind of "cruise control." Generally speaking the champs that are "interactive" can actually be very stressful to play, and sometimes players just want to de-stress, and playing champs that can easily farm waves safely fulfill that desire. I still remember being able to wave clear with a fully charged janna tornado, and how riot nerfed that to the ground because it wasn't "interactive"
and while I respect that decision, I must also respectfully disagree. Playing AP Janna back then allowed me to approach the game differently, instead of focusing on playing 5v5 team death match in mid lane, I could play more strategically as I forced the enemy team to fight on my terms as we forced different lanes to towers and whittle them down via attrition.
Yes it might be a less active or exciting method, but was still a legit method nontheless, and the enemy still had the ability to engage us at any time should they ward smartly and flank properly. And allowed for me to enjoy a more low stress game of league than some of the hyper reflexive dog fights that are much more common in today's league.
Thoughts?
RiotNot Surrendering16 votesI think there's something to be said for your opponents playing against it who might not find it fun or the junglers on both teams that avoid the lane, because neither side is gankable. So it might be a fun experience for you, but not for everybody.
Thryale5 votesunderstood. but I've been on the receiving end of these kinds of players before as well, and (yes, I know this is purely anecdotal, but) it's never been that much of an issue for me. Sometimes it'll be annoying always being under tower, but most of the time, I just end up focusing on farm, and can end up coming out of lane fairly even on farm.
I guess what I'm trying to get across is every champ can, and will, feel unfair to play against in the hands of a good player. Heck, just earlier this week I became so salty when I went up against a kled and found him to be so "unfair" that I was wondering (quite vocally) how he made it past riot QA.
But do I think kled should be removed from league? Not really. Do I still hate the entirety of his being? You bet. So I guess what I'm trying to get across here is that while riot should definitely aim to prevent a champion from being toxicly oppressive, (like when a champ is just straight up over powered) riot shouldn't be too worried about it being 'unfair' for some players as that's just the nature of being on the losing end of the stick. It sucks, but sometimes you gotta take yer medicine.
Also, there is the danger that overly focusing on the receiving end will result in the champs feeling very "same-y" for those playing them. As I've noticed a LOT of champs have a skill shot line nuke nowadays, something that was actually very uncommon back when I started playing league. (I still remember lux being advertised as the first champ having a kit completely comprised of skill shots)
DeathBurst10 votesIt's not really that it's "unfair", and more that it's "unfun". Yeah, sure, you'll never kill me with AP Jana and I can focus on farm and come out of lane even. But hum, I didn't wanted to play Farm Simulator 2K17, ya know? I wanted to play a PvP game where i can match my skills against my opponents, not play PvE and watch you do the same.
And trust me, I don't like the stressful, intensive, super-active champs... My most played champs are Garen and Sona. But still, there is a nuance between "not super active" and "not interactive at all".
Ahris4 votes[{quoted}](name=Trading Stance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JE5Ers1q,comment-id=002b00010000,timestamp=2017-10-03T03:20:23.532+0000)
I find Veigar really similar to Morgana in terms of feeling horrible playing against. But I do think making champs fun for the people who play it is more important than what the opponent considers fun(because it is fun for the opponent to kill you over and over, but ofc it has to be considered).
Just salty about the where Ahri is right now(useless if not fed). Extremely not satisfying to play or learn. Champ like Jhin is imo one of best designed champ in game. Satisfying to play even if meta is not really for him. Fair for others to play against as well.
Just bring back my aoe magic damage Ahri back @.@ pls. Removing Q movement speed would be fine if Ahri can be more satisfying. Thanks.
EDIT: You have also said mana is a nonfacter late game, but I often find myself oom if I did not build any mana items. So mana is a factor late game but Morello solves the issue for mana. If I build Ahri without any mana items, I will quickly need to go back to recover the mana lost or have to constantly take blue buff so that I can stay in fights longer. I do find the same problem with Aurelion Sol, but honestly he needs no changes.
Flemman6 votes[{quoted}](name=Trading Stance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JE5Ers1q,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2017-10-03T03:05:06.963+0000)
I wouldn't say we are happy with them as purely supports as long as their play pattern supports it, but at least in the case of Morgana, we are certainly happy she isn't played in midlane. Her play pattern in mid is quite non-interactive (wave clear from range, then punish you if you try to interact with her).
I feel like it's a bit unfair to label morgana gameplay as non-interactive for waveclearing from range then punish if you engage her when azir is the same concept of farm from afar and punish if you come close to him/farm
she is just a poke champ with extremely high cooldown so, now that her waveclear was gutted to force her to be that way (if it was easier to farm, maybe she would use offensive spell more often) there are simple change that could be made to bring her back mid with a rework.
First, tied her tormented soil to dark binding, like it was done with malz, so that she need to use her cc to clear wave. you often do QW anyway on a champ, binding those 2 open up for more play for the enemy (reduce cd and a small up in tormented soil minion damage to balance the safety loss)
second, find another passive that reward her for going agressive on champion, her current one is probably the root of her problem (+3 E shield value everytime she stun a champion?)
then find a new W spell, maybe something targetting at morgana source of frustration. What if, for exemple, she has a tool to "cleanse" an enemy from her own cc in exchange for another effect (chunck of hp, doombot dark binding aroun d the cleanse one,...), with the effect scaling with remaining cc duration . No more "I was stun for age", no if she want to kill someone she will probably need to free him from cc
I mean, exploration can be done to put her at an azir level of poke/farm mage mid, giving up so early is imo a bad choice
RottedApples3 votesMy main issue with zyra mid not being prioritized is that we all went into the rework expecting her to be able to mid coming out of it. We knew she would still be a support but honestly she was a better mid laner before the rework and I would give anything to go back to what is probably a slightly worse zyra just so I can still play her mid lane.
It just feels like this issue is unresolved.
RiotRiotRepertoir7 votesHopefully we can fix the Morg mid interactivity thing in a large scale update if we ever do one. Seems like a great opportunity.
patmax173 votesI hope the double morgana/kayle VGU will happen some time <3
LightIsMyPath4 votesIf for "fix her interactivity" you mean remove her waveclear know that this will straight up remove her from midlane, not fix some issue. Look at the (few) mages currently played: they all have waveclear. Take 
: if she decides she doesn't want to interact with you she will not, she will Q-W the wave and back off. Same for 
and . Meanwhile longer range mages have more issue clearing waves then their lower range counterpart, and thus are both less played and less successful. Midlane is the lane with the higher roam potential: waveclear needs to be a thing there or champions better at roaming would simply dominate everyone else if their roams can't be punished or prevented. I think you are approaching "interactivity" in a very wrong way when it comes to mages, not considering their "macro" position in the game. The only way I see to make Morgana more punishable is changes aimed at her E to remove it "on demand", but that would destroy her support role AND make her want to trade LESS.
So, pls don't remover her ability to kill minions if u want her to stay mid! (I'd rather keep her as a niche counterpick then see her completely pushed out).. [sg-soraka]
DarkRitual2 votesMorg's midlane pattern is like that because she can't actually do anything else. Enemy runs at you? Shield yourself, hope to snare them, Pool the wave, and walk away while the money rolls in. She can't fight, as all of her offensive power is in her slow skillshot Q. Her only other recourse is to run away and safe farm if she can't turn around and all-in.
Likely won't change untill she gets her rework, unfortunately.
Penta Penguin2 voteswhat is wrong with being a safe mid
Vekkna5 votes[{quoted}](name=Trading Stance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JE5Ers1q,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2017-10-03T03:05:06.963+0000)
Zyra mid is something that we could potentially support but needs work that we're not prioritising at this point in time (things to solve: accurate threat representation of plants, making sure mid and support are balanced together, etc.)
Can you (or anyone) address these quotes from Zyra's MYMU thread?
She gets played both lanes successfully and will continue to--we're committed to keeping her strong in both lanes.
Our plan was to make her viable mid and balance around support, so we wouldn't be happy if she was a weak midlaner.
Yep! We want her to be viable in both roles.
Going forward, we’re putting her in more midlane tests and making sure we don’t leave a lane behind.
Meddler also recently made a comment about not being opposed to the idea of Zyra mid. Here you say it's something you could "potentially support." Both comments amount to this: she's not on the radar, and she's not a priority.
How do you reconcile that with the comments I posted from her update? "Committed to keeping her strong in both lanes" is not ambiguous. "We wouldn't be happy if she was a weak midlaner" is not something that can coexist with the "maybe someday" replies from live balance. "We want her to be viable" is not how you describe something that you are "not prioritizing."
I think this deserves a response. Overt promises to players are not a common thing in the gaming industry, and the promises made about Zyra were not hedged with the typical disclaimer words like "hope" or "intend" or "subject to change." To the contrary, these promises used terms like "committed to" and "going forward" and "making sure."
In light of that, do you guys not feel any responsibility to acknowledge that these statements never resulted in any follow-through or action of any kind? If Riot makes clear statements about a champ's design and balance direction, don't you think that creates an obligation to the players? And why/how does this sort of breakdown happen in the first place?
RiotNot Surrendering4 votesHonestly, it comes down to project prioritisation. I think in this case the project of "Make Zyra viable in mid" compared to balancing runes or doing worlds balance is a non-proposition.
Vekkna7 votesRight this second, yeah. It's been a year and a half, and Zyra and her items have been nerfed/buffed like 6 times since then. Mid balance was not considered at any time.
Maybe we can prioritize this over 2018's annual Ryze rework. Prioritize it over fiddling with lethality three times or reworking AD itemization for the third time in a season and a half. Or reworks that end up as reverts (Kog, Vel), or reworks that turn into resource black holes (Malz, Fizz, Kindred, Caitlyn, Leblanc).
This is Rito's "it would cost a raid tier" response.
SuperLuigiLXIV2 votesDude, Riot can't even keep their word within one set of patch notes. Case in point:
Rito: We're going to nerf Janna! massively buffs Janna across the damn board in exchange for one nerf that stops being a nerf at level 9
Seriously. They said they were NERFING Janna and expected us to buy that BS even while we watched them load her like a baked potato, and you're counting on two-year-old words to matter to them? =(
Solidair36 votesI think the problem lies in the fact that since you guys couldn't support them mid, you just shove them bot and leave them to stagnate.
That's not good balancing, it's being lazy. I realize it's not EASY to make them okay in mid and support, but the time has to be put in sooner rather than later. Y'all never even TRIED to make mid morg work after she was taken to bot as a support, you just balanced her for support as an easy way out and left her there with nothing. Same with Zyra.
This is not responsible and I'd rather not see this happen again.
Knalxz7 votesIt's the same reason why they're fine with the jungler role existing in the first place.
Things change.
The jungle was originally just meant to be a way for losing lane to catch backup but now it's it's own role most dare not start without. Remember there was once a time here supports dominated top lane. Things change.
Sirsir5 votesWell morg is old. Her kit really seems to fit the support role better, since they added 
way back when to give her w a purpose in the role.
But I mean both can do both roles fairly well. Its just the mid meta is largely roam based.
Serika Zero4 votesher kit does NOT fit the support better. Bot lane has 2 players, your shield only shields one = better in solo lane (mid or top). Your passive is spell vamp (aka: healing based on damage your abilities do) = better in solo lanes where you either farm (do damage to minions with abilities) or trade (do damage to enemy champions with abilities) as opposed to bot lane. And your W, high damage over time spell. Your rank 3 W will clear a caster minion wave. To give you an understanding of how mu.ch damage it does.. oriana needs to Q W Q to clear a wave when morgana can just W it.
Oh, and your R benefits for you keeping the leash on your enemy. Meaning, you have to stay in range and avoid dying while its active. Again, better in solo lane as you only receive damage from a single source, as opposed to 2 in the bot lane.
So, by this we can see that. Her passive is for solo lane. Her W is for solo lane. Her E is for solo lane. Her R is for solo lane.
That's more than half of her kit. And regarding "mid being largy roam based". Did I mention a single W can clear caster minion waves at lv 3 W? (that's lv 5 morgana) You can roam much easier than most mid champions because you clear waves super fast, and from range, and you don't need to be in lane by the time the minions die loool. So, yes, Morgana is very good at roaming as well. And very good at ganking too. You can just walk close to the enemy from behind them using your black shield on yourself, now they can't cc you and ult them. Wait for ult to end almost end and trow a W under the enemy, and after they got stunned land a snare.
She also has spell vamp, meaning, she will be on high hp when roaming. The only reason morgana is mostly played bot lane is because she used to counter the meta. She was an anti meta pick. Back when bot lane was: blitz, thresh, leona. And this community has a large amount of sheep in it, and they can't think for themselves, so, they stick with their slave masters that played her support in lcs => MORGANA BEST IN SUPPORT ROLE!!!
Even when most of her abilities work better in solo lane. edit: meanwhile, downvoted to hell meanwhile, support morgana has lower win ratio than mid morgana.
sry snowflakes, reality isn't on your side ;)
Jerry SeinfeId5 votesHer ult is not beter in a sololane. How the fuck is a multitarget stun + dmg nuke better in solo lane.
RocketRelm5 votesSpeaking as somebody who actually plays (well, played, I haven't done much for shit of mid more in s7 but I did a lot in s6) Mid Morg, it's good in 1v1s because it has a monstrous amount of damage and CC, and in a 1v1 you can often orchestrate the situation such that the enemy can't actually 100-0 you, whereas in a duo lane you need to worry far more about being swamped with damage. In which case it's pretty much a license to kill.
It's probably still net better in a duo lane, but it's by no means weak in a solo lane, and in either case it's more about using that ultimate in the team fight stage anyway.
I really would like to see morg (and zyra, tbh), embraced in the mid lane.
Jerry SeinfeId7 votesI never said it was bad in a solo lane. Just that the potential is higher in a duo lane.
