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Aery has no niche. Its just free damage/shielding. Other keystones have niches to them.

koshkyra··10 votes·3,634 views

Comet: is dodgeable and has to land on the enemy Electrocute, phase rush, press the attack: attack enemy three times to activate (each of them has a different outcome so i think theyre unique enough) Fleet footwork: charges up and then procs Lethal tempo: has a delay, can ignore attack speed cap Klepto: you have to use an ability, then autoattack soon after (why the fuck can gp/illaoi/nasus/ezreal etc proc it without having to autoattack) Glacial augment/summoner specialist: i think we can all agree these are pretty niche, no need to explain it Guardian: procs WHEN THE ENEMY DOES SOMETHING, as opposed to when you do something Revitalize: has different effects based on who is recieving the heal Aftershock: you have to be near the enemy, have to cc them, and its delayed Dark harvest: can be stacked, only procs after a kill/large minion or monster kill Predator: you have to actively activate it, it works off your boots, it has a channel

Aery: Extra damage and shielding. Nothing else.

Aery is the only one without a niche.

TL;DR: Aery is so generic, its basically a stat-stick. I believe its unhealthy for the game and should be reworked.

27 Comments

RiotRiot MapleNectar11 votes

Would agree with you here. We've discussed doing some work to Aery and Comet to make them feel a little bit more unique from one another specifically, but agree with your evaluation comparing it to the other keystones. There's been work going into some different runes/keystones that you'll likely start seeing over the next few patches. Haven't got to these ones yet (nor do I know exactly when we will), but wanted to pop in here quick to let you know we're talking about it too :).

SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votes

Whatever you do, please don't remove the first good keystone synergy Zilean has ever had :(

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Have you considered offensive alternatives to damage? Aery, in particular, seems like an interesting opportunity to explore that space.

Granting vision or marking targets are both good examples of offensive utility that already exists; I'm still holding out for things like shield reduction to make an appearance somewhere. Aery may not be the right place to put something like that, of course.

Shadow Hazard1 votes

I think a great change to aery would be to make it behave like an inverse athene's. the Aery shield will build up a stack depending on how much the shield was damaged up to a AP/AD+lvl scaling cap, and the damage portion will do the matching stack amount of damage. It will complete remove the choice of people who look at it as a more reliable comet, and heavily improved the niche of it for the primary users.

Oleandervine1 votes

Make Aery a shield bomb. Leave what it does when targeting enemy champions as is, but have the allied cast function make Aery land in a little AOE around the target, making it a unique form of poke while you're being defensive. It would make a much more solid pick for supports and prevent it from being abused.

chipndip14 votes

Uh...Aery's niche is supposed to be for aggressive enchanters. Aery has a niche, but its low cd makes it pretty generally applicable beyond that niche.

Also, reading the thread, you don't know what a niche is. Niches aren't functions of a thing. Niches are the point of a thing.

koshkyra4 votes

No they aren't.

Niches are an aspect of something that make it unique/specific/not general, or only applying to a small population.

Niches are not

the point of a thing

chipndip13 votes

{quoted}

No they aren't.

Niches are an aspect of something that make it unique/specific/not general, or only applying to a small population.

Niches are not

Based on your definition, how is anything you described in the op related to what you just said? The counter-play of something or the gates to something's usability isn't that thing's niche.

Electrocute, for example: Electrocute's niche is early game burst. It is NOT "Hitting the enemy 3 times". The niche of Kleptomancy is to scale faster, not "Auto-attack or you don't get any benefit from this rune". You still don't have a solid understanding of what a niche is, and this is me politely informing you.

koshkyra5 votes

Based on your definition, how is anything you described on the op related to what you said?

Because each other keystone has a niche that makes them unique and creative.

Electrocute's niche is early game burst. It is NOT "Hitting the enemy 3 times".

I never said it was "hitting the enemy 3 times".

Quote from OP:

each of them has a different outcome so i think they're unique enough

A DIFFERENT OUTCOME FROM THE OTHER 3-HIT KEYSTONES

You still don't have a solid definition of what a niche is, and this is me politely informing you.

If you were "politely informing" me, you wouldn't have used this sentence.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Because each other keystone has a niche that makes them unique and creative.

So lemme use you to try to explain this.

I never said it was "hitting the enemy 3 times".

Quote from OP:

A DIFFERENT OUTCOME FROM THE OTHER 3-HIT KEYSTONES

...and the outcome of Electrocute is early game burst.

So what is the niche, or the point, of Electrocute? EARLY GAME BURST

If you were "politely informing" me, you wouldn't have used this sentence.

I am politely explaining it to you. I'm not cussing or insulting you. I'm not degrading you. However, I'm slightly annoyed that you aren't getting it yet. That's all, though.

koshkyra5 votes

You choose to completely ignore everything i respond to you with and continue arguing your own argument. Yeah, no, sorry. Im not.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

You choose to completely ignore everything i respond to you with and continue arguing your own argument. Yeah, no, sorry. Im not.

Here's the problem we now have: You don't know what an in-game niche is, and you don't want to listen to me telling you what it is. If I explain it, you once again refuse to listen. The only way you're going to stop closing your ears is if I say "You're right", but I won't since you're clearly not.

So lemme try this one more time:

  • I said "A thing's niche isn't what it does or how. It's the purpose of taking it."

  • You said "No, a niche is the aspects of something that makes it unique."

Alright, so past that point.

  • I said "Your own op doesn't agree with that statement. All you did was state how to utilize keystones, not anything they're unique for." I then state "For example: Electrocute's niche isn't 'Hit someone 3 times'. Electrocute's niche is 'Early game burst.' Kleptomancy's niche isn't 'Use an ability and auto-attack'. Klepto's niche is 'Allow for faster scaling.' The niche of the keystone is, or should be, synonymous with the reason behind using the keystone."

  • You said "I didn't say Electrocute's niche was hitting someone 3 times. I said that the outcome between it and the other "Hit someone 3 times" passives were unique".

Alright...so I said

  • And that outcome is the freaking early game burst I just talked about in the post right before your response. THE EARLY GAME BURST IS THE NICHE OF ELECTROCUTE, WHEREAS THE BURST OF MOBILITY FOR CHASING/KITING WOULD BE THE NICHE OF PHASE RUSH, IN CONTRAST.

and you come right back swinging with

  • You ignored what I said.

At this point, another accusation of me "ignoring what you said" just shows that you lack reading/comprehension skills.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

Here's the problem we now have: You don't know what an in-game niche is

The problem is you opening your posts with statements like these. If you're gonna have that kinda attitude go home and rethink your life.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

The problem is you opening your posts with statements like these. If you're gonna have that kinda attitude go home and rethink your life.

I only have so much patience to constantly go back and forward with people that think they know what they're talking about when they don't. You can see the whole conversation. I didn't start off being even the slightest bit aggressive or confrontational. Hell, even that post is mild at worst.

I'm not gonna walk on eggshells and baby a bunch of randoms on a forum. I go through the few minutes to make sure I have a solid idea of what I'm talking about. I expect the same from someone I'm talking to, or at least the decency to not baby rage over being wrong.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

I only have so much patience to constantly go back and forward with people that think they know what they're talking about when they don't.

...

You can see the whole conversation.

Yes, i can see the whole conversation where you repeatedly and openly state that you are smarter than everyone else and they need to listen to you while you're not even reading the posts your responding to. Anyone responding to you is "baby raging" over being "wrong" when you aren't even understanding the conversation taking place. It is quite clear to anyone reading exactly what is happening here.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

...

Yes, i can see the whole conversation where you repeatedly and openly state that you are smarter than everyone else and they need to listen to you while you're not even reading the posts your responding to. Anyone responding to you is "baby raging" over being "wrong" when you aren't even understanding the conversation taking place. It is quite clear to anyone reading exactly what is happening here.

Up until this point, the most I did was reiterate what I was saying about the OP's understanding of a word he was using, stating that "Aery does have a niche, but it's just too generally applicable as is. Doesn't mean it doesn't have a niche, though." The part where I get confrontational is after having to dumb down my responses multiple times just to explain a simple concept to the fucking creator of this thread, only to have a bunch of random posters give me shit for correcting the OP's lack of understanding of a word he's flinging around.

So yeah, at this point, I'm not exactly being cordial anymore, and I don't care. Not in this specific conversation, anyway. Don't use words you don't know how to use if it's such a big deal. Some of you guys need to learn how to take an L and move on. If he had just accepted the post and moved on, this wouldn't even be a conversation. ME not getting the conversation? The OP has no idea what he's even talking about. Talks about Aery's niche, tries to compare it to other niches, and doesn't put a single actual niche in what he thinks is a list of niches. Yeah, sounds pretty dumb to do to me.

AMYS GRAVE3 votes

Well a rioter came in and agreed with the OP's premise, so it sounds like they knew what they were talking about. You're the one who came in here to start an argument for no reason. Talk about needing to take the L and move on with your life.

DarkSoul19942 votes

The real issue is that Aery has an intended niche, but the way Riot went about appealing to said niche left the keystone far too general and accessible. Stop arguing over semantics. For that exact reason, the keystone probably needs a rework. For the exact opposite reason, Grasp probably needs a rework because it is far too niche.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

The real issue is that Aery has an intended niche, but the way Riot went about appealing to said niche left the keystone far too general and accessible. Stop arguing over semantics. For that exact reason, the keystone probably needs a rework. For the exact opposite reason, Grasp probably needs a rework because it is far too niche.

"Stop arguing over semantics"

If you bothered, I already said half of what you said already. How about you stop butting in and acting like a know-it-all over obvious information?

Eedat1 votes

They were trying to place DFT with something more interactive rather than 'just more damage'. What they were going for with it that you "interact" with Aery by running towards it to get it back sooner and syncronizes more with champs that stick closer to their target. However they failed pretty hard and it ends up just feeling like more damage exactly like DFT was.

kattzkitti1 votes

I don’t really care what they do with Aery’s effect (if anything), but just keep her available for use because I’d be very sad if I couldn’t bring her to lane anymore.

[sg-soraka]

Meep Man1 votes

It's the Support keystone, but it's interaction with DoT's also makes it the DoT keystone. It often overshadows Comet on some who should want Comet because Comet only hits if the target is slowed or impaired movement-wise.

Bjørnetjenesten1 votes

Just an ugly ass blue rat that flies around being a jerk.

BlasphemousPrime1 votes

Winter Pikachu Skin.

BlasphemousPrime1 votes

Klepto: you have to use an ability, then autoattack soon after (why the fuck can gp/illaoi/nasus/ezreal etc proc it without having to autoattack)

Those champs have abilities that ALSO count as Auto Attacks.

DontTouchMyBall1 votes

I'd like it to be a damage and a shield keystone so one abuse wouldnt nerf the other!

Also revitalize on the tank tree saddens me a lot as a support main, in any situation I will take it as a secondary, that tree is really uninteresting overall.

alexkmy1 votes

One form of fix this is buffing the size of Arcane Comet (making it more reliably to champs without CC) and changing the DMG of Aery (10-50)

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