If zed is an AD spell caster, why do people go attack speed with b.o.r.k.?

LegitBacon66·Apr 27, 2015·12 votes·4,216 views

I mean riot did nerf his attack speed and his attack speed scaling pretty significantly to stop his splitpushing power. Being an AD spell caster though people still build bork? Why? I go other builds go get a lot of hard damage out of my skills with no attack speed but I get reported for not building bork? Can someone please help me out on why I should be building bork still? I keep thinking Zed can't split push now. Thanks for the help :)

EDIT: Thank you all for the responses. I appreciate the feedback. I will use it in more effective terms

52 Comments

FHMarshyApr 27, 201510 votes

The report for not building Botrk is retarded lmfao

But here is why Zed builds botrk:

The % health damage can shred tank that he would other wise have problem with.
The Life steal with attack speed allows him to duel more efficiently
His early game damage is optimized with the active of cutlass to increase his damage during ult.
Well, split push tower damage :)

LegitBacon66Apr 27, 20154 votes

Oh thank you! Would BORK be more beneficial to this new tank meta?

FHMarshyApr 27, 20151 votes

What I do is I get my cutlass first (Since it's one of the cheapest damaging Active in game), then leave it there and start on my Tiamat, then get some Arm Pen(LW or Brute).

I don't rush the full botrk since it doesn't provide enough damage early game and tanks won't have that many items anyways.

Critmaster GarenApr 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Oh thank you! Would BORK be more beneficial to this new tank meta?

depends on who you want to kill. bork against tanky targets, and hydra when you want to assassinate a fed adc.

Earl EulrichApr 27, 20151 votes

unfortunatelly botrk works out better for Single-target assassination than Hydra in all cases. Hydra is better for AoE-impact though (and Zed can deal quite massive AoE if played right).

TransgressorApr 27, 201511 votes

{quoted}

Oh thank you! Would BORK be more beneficial to this new tank meta?

You need to get rid of your meta mentallity. It's not about the freaking meta, it's about your teamcomp, your ability to play certain champions and your flexibility in matchups. I have yet to see this shitty tank meta everyone is crying about, but on the other hand I watched the chinise lpl stream and it was literally 7 tanks slapping eachother. Don't let the meta dictate what and how you play, improve and evolve.

LegitBacon66Apr 28, 20151 votes

Fully understood. Ty for response

Sypher The PoroApr 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Oh thank you! Would BORK be more beneficial to this new tank meta?

Like a few others have said, the meta means nothing. All the meta does is dictate who is most likely to be played where. The current meta is tanks in the jungle, but I prefer to take Kha'Zix or Rengar. Your build should not be dictated by the meta, but by who on the enemy team is doing good. If you go against an Annie or Malzahar mid lane who will build a Rod of Ages then BORK may be useful to take out that extra health. A Lux or Veigar who are beyond squishy with no escapes, take Hydra and one-shot them. If during laning phase the enemy Cho'Gath top goes 7/0, rush BORK and Whisper to deal with him.

WarlockLawApr 27, 20151 votes

It's not so much for helping with the tank meta as it is that zed with brutalizer last whisper and botrk can kill basically anyone in the game with the same amount of gold if he hits all of his spells. That's why I feel that hydra isn't ideal on him his scalings are so high it doesnt really matter

Critmaster GarenApr 27, 20156 votes

i think it was originally because of the active together with his ult.

hed ult someone, get his chain off, then get a bork active in there since it would count towards the damage when the ult explodes. if he gets a few auto attacks in there, it would be even more %health damage.

imo, he would be better off with hydra nowdays. especially because it gives more raw ad that synergizes with his w passive.

LegitBacon66Apr 27, 20151 votes

Yes. I build Hydra, BT, and Black cleaver for raw AD

Jeddy017Apr 27, 20152 votes

Well,with the BC changes coming in the next patch,you're going to lose 10 of that raw AD.Though,you'll get 10% more CDR & 200 more health in return.

Father CthulhuApr 27, 20154 votes

People get it for the active damage. His ult does 50% of all damage he did during the time his ult had you marked. So, you would get 10% of max health off the initial cast, and another 5% max health on his ult's damage proc.

DrukyulApr 27, 20156 votes

The answer is that BotRK is basically the CertainlyT of items. It is good at everything it does, and it does a lot. No matter the champion, a BotRK will never be the worst item you can get at any point in the game.

lB2kGRlc8yApr 28, 20151 votes

it pretty awful on Veigar, tested and confirmed

junglerboy16Apr 27, 20155 votes

they build him like a carry because BotRK has a broken interaction with his ult. It reapplies the % current damage it deals at full strength, as well as reapplying the % max health damage of the active. If they finally fixed that interaction, Zed would have to make a sacrifice to build for splitpushing, which would basically fix everything broken about him (he can have a safe easy lane and strong mid game, but being a top tier split pusher to negate his supposedly bad late game is broken).

LegitBacon66Apr 28, 20151 votes

Wow thats a lot of extra damage

CrettApr 27, 20154 votes

Or go crit damage runes and grab five infinity edges for 100% crit chance and almost 900 AD With your ult, that's around 450% of your AD per autoattack. I'M JUST SAYING

EdbwnApr 27, 20153 votes

guys can we please make this a thing

Earl EulrichApr 27, 20154 votes

because rightclicking > hitting skillshots. Those sick Zed mechanics!

Mooing KevApr 27, 20154 votes

yeah this is why i frown upon botrk rush. It's a lot more reliable and safe since you stick on your target and AA like crazy but a raw Ad build relies on landing ur Q or even 2 Qs to deal damage which is more satisfying personally.

Black k 9Apr 27, 20153 votes

I prefer b.e.e.f. over b.o.r.k.

EdbwnApr 27, 20153 votes

BOOOORK! It's beef and pork! It's bacon in your burger! MOOIIINNK!

LegitBacon66Apr 28, 20152 votes

Legit bacon kappa

RenailleApr 27, 20153 votes

It's almost like bork is strong on any ad champ.

EnvyDragonApr 27, 20152 votes

It's because of the active. You ult, use your full combo, and add 15% of the target's max HP in damage to your burst.

And while his splitpushing isn't as godlike as it used to be, he can still get in, do a ton of damage to tower, and get out without much danger of being caught. He can absolutely still splitpush.

Nobody should be reported for how they play or build, but BotRK is a great item on Zed.

LegitBacon66Apr 27, 20151 votes

Yeah I was in a ranked game where my whole team questioned my hydra, bt, and black cleaver in my inventory lol. Those three items though gave me like 450 raw AD which was awesome.

Guy Fox TeemoApr 27, 20152 votes

Don't build br bro lol, 100% better off with infinity.

Photos of GhostsApr 27, 20152 votes

If I played Zed I'd go item 3072 item 3031 item 3035 item 3074 item 3071 Or replace BT with item 3139

LegitBacon66Apr 27, 20151 votes

That was essentially my build that game I got reported, even though we won lol. Its a great build, does insane amounts of damage to the point where your ultimate is not even needed. The insane lifesteal to.

AlëkApr 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That was essentially my build that game I got reported, even though we won lol. Its a great build, does insane amounts of damage to the point where your ultimate is not even needed. The insane lifesteal to.

The idea is different here. When it comes to the value of the buy BotrK is a better core buy. Because of his W steroid and his passive Raw AD is very overrated on him. Unless you are playing against an extremely squishy team BotrK is so much better than any other core item. The %hp is useful if the enemy team starts itemizing against you, and the tankbusting is so good. Lifesteal is another overrated stat especially on Zed. Hydra gives a ton of it especially when splitpushing, but its not really needed. Zed already has a ton of waveclear in his kit, and since he's an assassin he has no need to build lifesteal. Lifesteal would be required if he had to sustain through a time fight, so champions like yi, fiora, jax, etc. build it as a core. Zed is in and out so damage is 100% better than lifesteal

MLDzXnRRRApr 27, 20152 votes

He gets damage for free, % of the Bork's passive dmg gets applied by his ult, he can splitpush and duel. Hydra is better for teamfight assasins with good aoe spells like Talon/ Riven (both of which are bad vs tanks that stack hp and armor, unlike Zed, who can 1v1 any tank, but is worse in teamfights, where he can blow 1 person, if not exhausted, before poofing back to his shadow, while Talon and Riven can drop some instant aoe burst)

Solidair3Apr 27, 20152 votes

The active is used with his ult. Additionally, the passive gives him tankbusting power, and since his attack speed is weakened over all, having some extra is nice. And lifesteal is nice.

He could arguably go Hydra nowadays.

djjomonApr 27, 20152 votes

Don't worry about the report. If people are gonna report you for building differently... fuck them. That, and if someone has frequent reports that don't result in punishment, their reports become less influential.

Since you can't get punished for building differently, the report means nothing. It says more about that player than you

Dunkrius2gApr 27, 20152 votes

Bortk active is probably the reason why and it synergizes too well. And also every aa you are dealing 6-8% of their current health. It might be small but it still is the reason why he deals A LOT of damage when he ults someone.

Mooing KevApr 27, 20152 votes

I personally prefer a raw AD build so you're not reliant on death mark pop damage only. With raw ad you can chunk ppl with just your weq combo while having even better wave clear than a botrk build. However with the rise in tank meta botrk has become a necessity again. So nowadays im forced to go the old cookie cutter zed build that relies on auto attacks with youmous,botrk,LW,BC and IE. Raw AD build is so much more satisfying though when you land that perfect wqe combo where you get double qs in.

insaiyanbaccaApr 27, 20152 votes

you got reported because people just blindly follow what pros do and anything else is trolling to alot of people(not all of them just a good many)

Xuan XuanApr 27, 20152 votes

Zed can't get away with just building damage, because he's too energy hungry. Talon, for example, can build full dmg and never get attack speed, because mana doesn't limit how much you can spam your abilities in a single fight. Zed, however, runs out of energy and needs a source of damage while it regens.

IcyPepperApr 27, 20152 votes

Split-pushing (he can and will continue to do this, the nerf just made it less easy rather than impossible), dueling with autoattacks, sustain while last-hitting, and the active is useful for chasing/running/trading.

PL55Apr 27, 20152 votes

Last time I remember WingsofDeath would get Hydra, BoRK, and Last Whisper as his core for raw AD builds. His explanation was the BoRK active synergizes with Zed's ult too well to skip.

Mandang0Apr 27, 20152 votes

They're buying it for the active, the attack speed is just gravy.

...but I do wonder why they don't just go hydra instead.

TotalisApr 27, 20152 votes

Late game your e and q do almost negative damage to non-squishies, need the atspd to kill them.

DarkestDiscipleApr 27, 20152 votes

A few things about Zed and BoRK:

1: Most Melee AD damage dealers prefer Hydra as a Lifesteal item because it's a massive boost to waveclear while also adding solid burst. Against squishies when he's team fighting Zed might prefer Hydra but he has almost no issues with waveclear, making BoRK generally a better item.

2: The BoRK passive is amazing for Zed's ult because the damage is heavily frontloaded. While the passive averages 4% of total HP, the fact that it starts at 8% multiplies so well with Zed's ult. Add the active to a couple autos and you get burst upwards of 25% max HP; this gets multiplied by an additional 50%, meaning BoRK by itself can do over 1/3 of an enemy's HP (pre armor). This, combined with how easily he builds Armor Pen, is what allows Zed to threaten tanks.

3: BoRK has Lifesteal for excellent sustain and an active that can be useful for both chasing and escape on an assassin that is already very safe.

BluePolarizerApr 27, 20152 votes

Zed is not an AD caster.

Zed is a melee AD carry (steroids, mobility and all) that happens to have high AD ratios on his spells.

StoningtonApr 27, 20152 votes

Better waveclear without spell casts.

Better burst on his ult.

He doesn't need much AD because his passive gives him %increase of ad.

Epilogue of LifeApr 28, 20152 votes

Mostly just for the active, but extra stats can never hurt, especially when you are someone who runs out of energy fast, and also cuz it helps you get off your passive.

DarthSpectrumApr 28, 20152 votes

BoTRK simply works very well on Zed.

Contrary to popular belief, Zed doesn't magically avoid enemy attacks with his shadows on a .1 second cool down. The Life steal from the build path gives him some sustain against ranged poke.

Around level 6, Zed would be able to upgrade for a Cutlass. The stats may seem mediocre, but it is really the active that benefits Zed. With a cutlass active, enemies won't be able to run away from Zed after he Death Marks them. The speed boost also allows him to sneak a few more AAs in during the duration before the enemy gets too far.

The passive and active of BoTRK in general makes up for the weaknesses in his kit. It gives him sustain, synergizes well with his ult, and lets him deal with Health Stacking tanks that would otherwise counter him.

Of course, there are other alternatives. One can opt for a Hydra for example. For those who play AD Casters frequently, and can cancel their AA animations with the Hydra active, Hydra gives Zed unparalleled burst. It gives him kill potential without his ult with a combo of: W, E, W, AA, Q, AA, Hydra, AA. Additionally, it lets him push waves without using W.

Another option is to simply rush full damage and LF and build BT.

Players who reports you for not building BoTRK on Zed simply don't understand his kit. It works well on him, but it isn't always necessary. Especially against another assassin in lane, Hydra will save you countless more times.

YossarianSenseiApr 28, 20152 votes

BoRK is a safety choice, not necessarily the strongest choice. It's easy to build, and the slow helps him lay down a bit more damage.

An extra auto-attack is going to be a lot more damage then the 50 bonus AD or whatever he'd get from BT instead.

ChaoticPineconeApr 28, 20152 votes

item 3074 gives 50 more damage than item 3153 , adding 12.5 damage from his passive w (62.5 total). it adds 81 damage to Q and 50 damage to E. it also gives an autoattack reset (assuming its the only item at level 18, his autos do around 200 damage). so a full combo would hit for an extra 531 damage (assuming 1 perfect hydra active, and no passive proc) before resistances.

item 3153 gives 25 damage (30 with the passive). so 32.5 less damage per auto, and 131 less damage for one rotation of spells, and no auto reset. so its effectively around 167 damage total. if you auto and use the blade passive (in that order) on a full health target, it will do 18% of their max heath - the blade passive+active makes up for the 364 damage difference if the target has 2022.22 health. your burst is stronger with the blade if the target is over, your burst is stronger with the hydra if the target is under.

after the burst, the hydra only gives 50 more damage per auto. for the blade passive to do more damage on the same target, the target needs 625 or more health. the blade makes it easier for more autos with the attack speed + movespeed slow it provides.

TL;DR

item 3074 would give more burst in trades for squishier targets (under 2022 health).

item 3153 is better for the kill, due to the cooldown of the active vs the hydra.

EDIT - math is a little off, since i had to calculate Zed's AD to get the passive on the Hydra. but the principle is correct.

MTemptyApr 28, 20152 votes

It covers his inability to deal with tanks rather well. Now he has the ability to push turrets, kite melees even harder, AND he doesn't suffer a loss of damage because his passive and borks hp shred synergize pretty well.