Cause you know nerfing champions that atm are not viable anyway is totally gonna fix the absurd issues Zed and Yasuo have because armor pen is broken right now.
I'm just gonna take a break, grab some popcorn and read people cry about Zed and Yasuo. I don't even hate them, i love playing them, i'm gonna be sad and prob will quit the game when they get nerfed into the ground because the balance team apparently has no idea how to balance.
SmokingPuffin8 votesDFG isn't healthy for the game. It warps champions around the burst window. Look at how badly it's worked out for Ahri.
If AD assassins are taking over the game (I'm not really convinced they are, seems like it's pretty much only a Zed thing), that's a separate thing that should be fixed independently.
AquariusGine1 votesDFG isn't healthy for the game. It warps champions around the burst window. Look at how badly it's worked out for Ahri.
If AD assassins are taking over the game (I'm not really convinced they are, seems like it's pretty much only a Zed thing), that's a separate thing that should be fixed independently.
This guy is absolutely correct. The problem with DFG is that certain champs are balanced around it. Riot erased mage Ahri just because of it.
Riot has mentioned that Zed will also see some changes in 5.2
SmokinSickStyle7 votesAD?
Zed is the only one that can compete against everything early to mid and massively falls off late because of how much CC and items can counter him (Assuming the game is not a stomp, but pure lategame fights both team full build).
Where did you leave Fizz, Akali, Katarina, AHRI and all those that are AP abusing AP itemization master race?
The only thing AD have more is pitiful lifesteal that unless you crit it's not gonna save you in teamfights and autoattacks.
And we have Ranged ADC and melees for AA, not assassins.
Oh and Yasuo isn't an assassin.
DFG removed and we will get champions that are gonna get buffs, so it's actually benefitting those champs if buffs are significant.
Remlap12231 votesHardly. I built around 300 armor last game as Malphite against Zed, including Thornmail, Sunfire Cape, and Abyssal Scepter for increased over time magic damage and less resistance removal (plus his bullshit passive that deals magic damage on AAs) and he still can kill me in 7 seconds with no reliable way to escape without ulting him then hitting Q.
And yes, Yasuo is an assassin. It flat out says on his champion page. He's way more ability and dash reliant than auto attacking.
SmokinSickStyle2 votesWe are not talking about duels, If zed if using ult on you in a teamfight then he should lose it, why people read only only what they want, i repeat i said in a teamfight.
Malphite is not a duelist.
Fizz, Akali, and any assassin could have beaten you in a 1vs1.
I must assume that Yi and Trynda are assassins too?
Yasuo is not primary an assassin because most of his damage is sustained crits.
Remlap12231 votesHis kit revolves around using abilities, not auto attacking. I never said that Yi and Tryn are assassins, they're light fighters or duelists. Yasuo is completely ability dependent, in a 1v1 fight with him whiffing his abilities, he gets stomped by Jax, Yi, and Tryn. So he's not a duelist. His damage comes from QE and crit burst damage. While a non-traditional assassin in that regards, he's definitely an assassin because of his gap closers and burst damage.
h3gXrKmW8f1 votesHardly. I built around 300 armor last game as Malphite against Zed, including Thornmail, Sunfire Cape, and Abyssal Scepter for increased over time magic damage and less resistance removal (plus his bullshit passive that deals magic damage on AAs) and he still can kill me in 7 seconds with no reliable way to escape without ulting him then hitting Q.
And yes, Yasuo is an assassin. It flat out says on his champion page. He's way more ability and dash reliant than auto attacking.
Yasuo main here 500 ranked games on 2 ACC's, yeah he's not an assassin. He can't kill instantly , it says it on the champion page? Wtf then I guess Teemo is a marskman then.
ReginaFreedom1 votesTeemo is a marksman... with crappy range.
Annie with 625 isn't so bad though XD
Junkο1 votesYeah Yasuo isn't an assassin, cause killing you in 2-3 seconds isn't what an assassin does right?
Also there is Talon.
I didn't mention Fizz, Akali and Kat because none of them buy DFG, i mean you can buy it on Fizz or Kat if you want but it becomes useless really fast unless you want to overkill everybody for no reason. Ahri is not even close to problematic right now, then there are champs like Veigar or LB who really depend on DFG but are getting nerfed.
Hawkefire4 votesAD itemization DOES have 1 thing going for it though (and literally only 1 thing, however it is a pretty darn big thing).
Armor Penetration is incredibly easy to itemize for (far easier than it is to get for an AP mage), and there is no drawback to building the items that have armor penetration because all the stats on each of thee items is useful.
Every single AD champion can build all 3 of these items (and literally every single AD assassin DOES build all 3, and most of the melee ADCs build at least 2 of the above). All of these items are also fairly easy to build (Brutalizer is one of the best earlygame items in the game, and it builds into 2 of the above items, and LW is pretty darn cheap)
Then we consider Magic Pen (and while yes, it is probably too strong, this is largely because void staff is stupidly broken.....however Last Whisper is just as broken)
Most AP champions don't actually stack more than 1 magic penetration item (and if they do, it is because their kit has very strong synergy with the other item....such as Teemo building Liandries + Void), but most of the AP champions don't do so because they cannot make use of the other stats that the item provides (or the passive). A big case of this would be Wits End and to a lesser degree Abyssal Scepter. There are an incredibly few amount of AP champs that build Wits End, and most AP champs don't build an abyssal scepter because the radius for the aura is too short for them to take advantage of it.
This doesn't mean that Magic Penetration isn't a problem, because it most certainly is! However I feel that magic penetration is more easily solved by simply adding a couple more magic resist items (such as some very heavy MR items, the way that AD has heavy armor items like Frozen Heart and Thornmail) and reworking void staff (because lets face it, you literally have to make excuses to NOT build this item on every AP mage/assassin).
TheI3igDaddy7 votesThis game will be balanced when resource management is balanced. Right now CD-based and energy-champs don't care about silly mana and can waveclear / fight for days. Mages are in a real shit spot right now.
Kuroi861 votesSo because mana based champs are meant to be weak early game, they are broken? Meanwhile CD and energy based champs who are meant to have stronger early games have strong early games, they are op?
Hawkefire3 votes[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Itg04rPt,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-14T15:50:59.935+0000)
Cause you know nerfing champions that atm are not viable anyway is totally gonna fix the absurd issues Zed and Yasuo have because armor pen is broken right now.
I'm just gonna take a break, grab some popcorn and read people cry about Zed and Yasuo. I don't even hate them, i love playing them, i'm gonna be sad and prob will quit the game when they get nerfed into the ground because the balance team apparently has no idea how to balance.
While I agree that the timing for the removal of DFG is a bit silly, you have to agree that DFG is a broken item and has been a massive balance problem, and is one of he reasons many champions are unable to be buffed. That and the sheer amount of abuse cases for the item are insane (and this is largely why those champions cannot be buffed).
Now this doesn't excuse the fact that armor penetration is downright ridiculous right now, and that definitely does also need to be fixed.
Junkο1 votes15% max hp damage + damage amplification for everybody on your team is quite strong, but you can easily remove the second part and it is brought in line with Botrk for the most part (maybe reduce AP by a bit too), or remove or heavily nerf the first part so champs like Veigar can still benefit from it.
I honestly find Zhonya way more broken than DFG, but that's really biased because i main assassins and burst champions though and it's probably jsut me.
Sammystorm1 votesremove the damage amp no one buys it. It would just be a worse cap or zhonya's at that point.
Junkο1 votesyeah 15% max hp damage totally not worth the buy
Sammystorm1 votesnot really. It would also keep the same fringe cases problematic.
Junkο1 votes15% max hp damage is not worth buying? can i please get what you are smoking atm
Pæan1 votesIt amplifies magic damage for EVERYONE? I thought it was just for the caster.
The only thing that makes me sad is there are a lot of "non-standard" ap casters that wont be able to work anymore.
DFG was a main item on AP Shaco, AP Garen, and some other odd-ones.
stealthfox942 votesBe careful what you wish for, personally I always thought 
was highly overrated but that's just my opinion.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesdepends on champion
just like sword of the divine was considered a crap but then you took twitch and deleted 3 ppl in 3 seconds with in early game
Fed by Snu Snu2 votesThey are nerfing Jayce though.
That will show Zed and Yasuo.
stealthfox941 votesThough that nerf was canned.
Fed by Snu Snu1 votesI don't recall so, but I sure hope so.
Cuz19722 votesAll those (Zed and only zed) AD assassins dominating (when counter picking other mids) are a serious issues.
forist2 votesWhat ad assassin champs go mid nowadays? I can only think of: 
, 
, 
, and maybe 
. Damn these 4 champs that are already set to dominate the mid lane.
Guess people can find just about anything to qq about nowadays. Next we need to remove 
or at least offer a version that gives ad or maybe both versions should offer armor/magic resist. Maybe then we will have a level playing field for both types of champs.
Junkο1 votesPantheon also goes mid.
All of them buy armor pen.
How many VIABLE mid laners buy DFG?
....
So why is DFG being removed for being problematic?
forist1 votesAhri, leblanc, annie, katarina, syndra, akali, veigar, diana, malzahar, twisted fate. Many more examples that can as well, because basically any mage that wants more burst can buy it, some just already have enough burst that they don't even need it.
Also, please don't buy armor pen on yasuo unless its your last item. Armor pen is not the anti-christ, magic pen is just as obtainable for practically the same stats. In fact, you can actually buy boots that have magic pen, so that's a plus in its favor.
Oh, and pantheon gets wrecked by mages and basically anyone who focus on skills rather than auto attacks. The only reason he goes mid is to counter the champs I mentioned above.
Its about balance, and they should have done this alot sooner imo, because it gives ap champs an advantage over ad ones. Plus, zohyas is one the greatest utility items in the game, but only champs who build ap can properly use it.
Junkο1 votesI'm not gonna talk about other points because it's all about preference and playstyles, there is no "you must buy this" build, you buy whatever you want to buy
And Pantheon actually wrecks most spuishy mids, even if they aren't AA reliant
Its about balance, and they should have done this alot sooner imo, because it gives ap champs an advantage over ad one
Armor pen being broken allows AD assassins to assassinate tanks and bruisers, so why isn't it dealt with? it's supposed to be Tanks and Bruisers > Assassins > AP & AD . Saying DFG is removed because AP champions can deal with assassins means Last Whispher and Youmuu should be removed on the same reasons
forist1 votesBecause magic pen has the same connotation, all you have to do is stack it. Also, when you have abilites like fizz's or vlad's % percent health damage you don't need that much magic pen to reach the same affect. Also, magic resist items are just not as strong as armor items, so their counterparts should be weaker.
Alpharite2 votesAre people STILL crying about Yasuo? He's nowhere NEAR OP right now.
Junkο1 votesI'm not really complaining as i do main him, i'm just pointing out that this will make mids that are supposed to counter him by being able to outdamage him (like Lissandra for example) be shit against him giving him another indirect buff
forist1 votesI don't think I've ever seen a lissandra build dfg before.
Raxistaicho1 votesHe's always going to be op. His overstuffed as hell kit cannot be balanced.
Miku Lv991 votesLook at the flipside though. Some of those AD users like Yasuo are going to be significantly worse with the IE nerf. But the mages are going to get buffs so they're likely going to be about as good as they were before. So I don't really see how this is going to made AD mids more of a problem than how they currently are.
Remlap12232 votesStep 1: Play Yasuo Step 2: Buy IE + PD + Hydra instead of IE + Shiv. Step 3: Profit.
h3gXrKmW8f1 votesStep 1: Play Yasuo Step 2: Buy IE + PD + Hydra instead of IE + Shiv. Step 3: Profit.
Hydra isnt good at all on Yasuo, BT is amazing but Bork can be good too. You have amazing wave clear with EQ combo and with shiv proc. Just my 2 cents. And PD isn't better than shiv at all. Shiv damage gives him mid game otherwise he would do no damage and solely rely on crics.
Xtremey3 votesHydra isnt good at all on Yasuo, BT is amazing but Bork can be good too. You have amazing wave clear with EQ combo and with shiv proc. Just my 2 cents. And PD isn't better than shiv at all. Shiv damage gives him mid game otherwise he would do no damage and solely rely on crics.
and then you realize the PD + IE combo is gonna be really strong after 5.1
Knight SoIaire 1 votesie as a first item is preety taxing on you
optimal route would be zeal into ie and then finishing your static (its free magic dmg thats doubled on crits, pd doesnt come close despite its higher stats, als with 90% crit chance you will get those crits all the time so no need to get that 10%)
Junkο1 votesLB who is completely reliant on it is not getting compensation, Annie who can burst without it and doesn't even buy it will get compensation, Ahri will get utility buffs which is the last thing she needs.
Aside from potential Veigar buffs there is nothing good coming out of this since Riot said they won't increase burst damage of champs affected.
Sammystorm1 votesdfg removal will be healthy for mid lane. Whenever dfg is strong burst champions become stupid. Whenever it is weak burst champions are bad.
Junkο1 votesI agree making LB, Veigar and some other champs unviable is healthy for the game
NinjaToad991 votesYou realize they said that champs who needed DFG are getting compensation buffs, right?
Junkο1 votesThey said LB will NOT be getting compensation buffs despite clearly needing them. Annie who really doesn't need any (and often doesn't evne buy it) will though.
NinjaToad991 votesWhere did they say that? I've only seen them say that people who need it will get it.
Kuroi861 votesYou're funny. Yasuo has been nerfed so far he needs buffs now and Riot is saying Zed is on the list for a nerf in the coming future and you are posting this.
GG, nice troll.
Junkο1 votesI posted this before the patch notes came out.
Also if Yasuo is so weak he needs nerfs why does he have a really high banrate atm?
Kuroi861 votesSame reason people will waste bans on any assassin instead of focusing on avoiding harder counters. They are more scared of certain champs than they should be. I've seen people ban Yasuo despite the fact they are playing someone that wrecks him. People are scared of assassins and instead of learning to counter them, they just ban them. That is why I started picking up assassins, to try them out and figure out how to better handle against them in lane. Once I've the Ip I'm gonna pick up wither Malzahar, Swain or Syndra and say goodbye to ever worrying about an assassin in lane again.
