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Feeling Ivern could use buffs still, and thoughts on W's passive.

EcchiOtakuTM··4 votes·873 views

Ivern could use lower early rank CDs (rank 1-4 abilities), W grating assist, removal of daisy for E targets and just automatically E her when an ally or yourself are shielded, and lastly improving daisy's AI a bit(Attack nearby winions/objectives if no hampion is near) and only doing the 3rd AA if 100 units closer to the target.

On a side note, I still feel the self-AA bonus ivern gains was bad and out of place, giving him range increase if he was in a bush is fine but I feel like allies should get the extra damage portion or some other bonus for being in ivern's special bushes. W entirely just feels lackluster early game, and only good for bush placement late game when you can sneak objectives or setup teamfights around bushes. But with all the playmaking ivern does with Q, E, and R there's really no point in forcing several AAs off to get the W's passive to work (Thresh's personal AA empowerment is fine since it rewards him for focusing on playmaking which usually delays AA'ing.) All other supportive champs with AA-enhancements usually offer it to teammates(Lulu, Nami, Janna) or have a wide variety of things they can do with the AA-enhancement (Sona, Thresh, Leona).

So yea I still feel the personal AA-enhancement ivern gains is a waste. You're far too squsihy and don't have any reason to be dps and it really does not offer much early game.

12 Comments

Draginath2 votes

As much as I've been enjoying him, he definitely feels on the weaker side. However, I'm not sure if that is because the champion is innately weak or the fact that both his W and Ultimate are buggy as hell right now. Daisy is probably the worst AI I've seen released in this game thus far. When she works, she is devastating. Most of the time, though, she just de-aggros and spends most of the time standing there.

I personally think that Ivern should innately have a ranged auto attack. Entering bushes should give him the bonus magic and more attack SPEED. Either that or at least make the bonus magic damage %HP.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Well It would be part of the AI bugginess but his CDs are extremely ridiculous to manage from rank 1-4, prior to ulti he's esp underwhelming.

Yea I fully agree with that change to ivern's W.

Also another thing daisy's hitbox is really large which I like, but it makes shielding your ally difficult if both of them are near eachother. I still think she should automatically be shielded if you shield an ally or yourself and removed from E targets.

Overall it's still his early rank CDs, combined with a buggy ulti, kinda off-kit W bonuses and shielding the right targets.

PulsarPollo1 votes

He's still relatively new. We're only halfway through 6.21 PBE cycle, so no worries.

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

Hopefully, already mastery 5'd him on the 2nd day of release, just still feeling the low points, while I may still be forcing through them it's getting annoying when under performing due to 1 missed E or a lack of early game cause W just feels underwhelming.

I like placing bushes and I'll never deny that but I just don't feel like ivern doesn't wants to AA as often as that W passive requires to actually do damage. Most times I'm still just ignoring W until lvl 13.

PulsarPollo2 votes

Wut. .-.

I agree with the autoattack statement. He's definitely a lot more reliant on abilities right now and seems kind of useless.

Votable Jester1 votes

I believe he has some buffs on the PBE right now.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Really? Wooo. I mean I figured as much cause riot aren't trying to do heavy buffs immediately. I just wanted to voice what I felt the issues were since I played him so much already xD

Draginath1 votes

The thing that I think makes him feel the clunkiest is the fact that everything with him is an animation, meaning the wind ups and cast times on his abilities are so uncomfortable to play with. He just doesn't flow well in combat. For example, I hate the lag between Ivern entering a bush and his W passive activating. That has killed me more than once simply because I can't quickly dip in and out of brush to keep it activated. So many engagements, especially earlier in the game, that little bit of damage matters. This wouldn't be as bad if his AA was innately ranged. It's that same feeling like when Kayle's E deactivates mid fight and she ends up walking to close the distance. It just kills her combat flow. The difference is, she can do something to make that a non-issue. Ivern can't.

Daisy still needs work (in addition to a display so we know how our items are affecting her), but his wind ups and cast times are what just make him feel awkward during fights.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Yea the delay and animations are plenty problematic too, idk wtf they were thinking with that ranged animation.

Draginath1 votes

Yea, they are just disgusting. You don't really notice them if you only play him a few times, but the more you play him, you realize that that's where a lot of his issues lies. Everything feels like he is playing with some weird ping issue. Literally everything with him is a wind-up. I've literally had people walk out of ranged in the time it takes Ivern to wind-up and auto attack. At point blank range, I've missed his Q because his wind-up is so obnoxious. The lag between him summoning daisy, giving her a high-five, and her choosing a target is about 1.5-2 seconds by my estimation. That's huge. What's worse is that Daisy has a ranged indicator, but I've noticed that no matter where I try to place her, she will always spawn by Ivern for that damn high-five. I use to think it was cute until actually trying to take Ivern as a serious champion in my repertoire.

There's a cast time for his W that makes it so hard to really use in combat. For example, trying to cast it on yourself while moving or on an ally that is moving. The bush appears where you first cast it and not where you or your ally is after the cast time, so this idea of "he can make his allies untargettable" is nonsense in application because his bushes rarely hit the mark. It's gotten to the point where I take extra precautions to make sure that I never cast W on my self or allies because those bushes almost always go to waste.

There's a lag between him throwing his long arms into the air and his shield activating. There's a lag between an enemy being rooted and Ivern getting the prompt to be able to leap to the target. The list goes on and on. Sure, there are ways to minimize this, such as attack speed or buying mobility boots so he's slow in combat, and many of these lags/cast times are short on their own, but it adds up. A champion that spends several seconds just animating their abilities is always going to have issues. There is just too much for his enemies to take advantage of.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Yea funny that you'd mention that, cause a lot of ivern players kept saying that too and I agree, it's fine to have delays as a counterplay and it's pretty obvious they added a lot cause they were testing out 4 new things with ivern(Passive, giving allies a gap closer, bush placement, and a pet who can keep CC'ing) but they didn't do follow up fixes weeks after release to clean it up much to several ivern player's disappointment.

Draginath2 votes

{quoted}

Yea funny that you'd mention that, cause a lot of ivern players kept saying that too and I agree, it's fine to have delays as a counterplay and it's pretty obvious they added a lot cause they were testing out 4 new things with ivern(Passive, giving allies a gap closer, bush placement, and a pet who can keep CC'ing) but they didn't do follow up fixes weeks after release to clean it up much to several ivern player's disappointment.

He feels a bit better in the new jungle. I actually think he's one of the champions that can abuse the new jungle the most. Daisy is still kinda stupid in her AI. I wish that she would constantly check for a nearby target whenever Ivern is in Combat, at least to minimize those situations where she's just sitting there chilling out (that's killed me more than any of Ivern's other issues).

Still, if they made some small tweaks to his animations (a ranged base AA would be a GODSEND). I still think Ivern should be pretty scary to fight in brush.

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