"Mordekaiser will be less toxic to play against"

Big Lincoln·Aug 12, 2015·95 votes·4,447 views

"Can I land my third hit of Q? Great I'll oneshot anyone who gets in melee range"

"Am I getting kited? Proceed to do nothing all game, great"

truly engaging, innovative gameplay

75 Comments

VoidgolemAug 12, 201523 votes

welcome to being a melee damage pump in League of Ranged CC Burst Nukes.

that being said it's not really anything new for morde. New morde does have the option to hijack dragon if/when the enemy carry isn't a moron, though.

Big LincolnAug 12, 201522 votes

I really don't like the dragon ghost

i hated it, and then i liked it, and now i don't because it takes up too much of his power budget

I don't want W and E to feel horrible to use just for a conditional power spike

LarasoAug 12, 20155 votes

It's not even really a power spike. Morde can't ult when he has a dragon ghost, so he's actually losing an entire ability just for some cheesy gimmick.

Big LincolnAug 12, 20152 votes

it makes him really tanky on top of giving him siege, good DPS, and it's drastically harder to kill than the (incredibly nerfed) ghosts of a carry and it does much more damage than tanks

a dragon ghost is MUCH better than a carry ghost early game, and I'd say even late game it's pretty damn strong because its stats only get better. and TBH i think that's nothing but problematic

junglerboy16Aug 13, 20152 votes

Not to mention that it has guaranteed AoE damage, no other Ghost you get deals AoE.

LeonDemonOfDeathAug 13, 20151 votes

Teemo with runaans, but continue

junglerboy16Aug 13, 20151 votes

Didn't know Ghosts could apply on-hit effects, or is that something exclusive to Teemo ghosts?

LeonDemonOfDeathAug 14, 20152 votes

All ghosts, so you get the hydra, the teemo poison, the runaans, whatever they have, their ghost has. Just not active abilities. So stattik shock will work, but Yas Q wont.

ArbiterOfTruthAug 13, 20151 votes

He can at peast use his W on the dragon's ghost.

CarryAug 12, 201521 votes

Yeah the Q mechanic seems incredibly asinine to me. The goal in him being a juggernaut is to do massive damage to anyone foolish enough to stay close to him. With the way the mechanic works, however, at rank 5 his 3rd Q has a +2.7 AD and +1.8 AP ratio on a single auto. The Q doesn't have to be stacked up on the same target though, so he can just Q, auto a minion twice, then flash auto someone for a +1.8 AP ratio on a single auto.

This isn't going to encourage a Juggernaut playstyle, it's going to encourage Gunblade->Sorc Boots->Zhonya's->Voidstaff->Deathcap->Situational where Morde's playstle is just to build up his 3rd Q then flash 100-0 an enemy champ with 3rd Q/ult/rest of rotation -> Zhonya's active to turn any fight into a 4v6. THIS IS EXACTLY THE TOXIC PLAYSTYLE THEY WERE TRYING TO REMOVE WITH THE REWORK!!!

3TWarriorAug 13, 20152 votes

well, it also has the potential to go full rylai's/liandri's with defensive items and rabadon's

consider that if you get up to 4000 hp, you can then charge up a shield to 1000 and it never drops below 250

imagine a mordekaiser charging in and hitting 3 champions with his E (though to be honest, I doubt this is going to happen), 3 targets = an additional 45% of his shield charged, at that rate, he would likely charge a shield of 700 in one shot, if he already had shield, he would be at full

of course, he's not going to be too tanky, but it's still a lot more bruiser potential than he had before

the sad part is though, MORDEKAISER is supposed to be a lane bully...now he still is, but his mechanics are changed

PartholonianAug 13, 20152 votes

Any fight where his flash is up and he has something to safely AA twice without getting stunlocked (or with that build, burst down), and people aren't running away from him when they see him using Q1 and Q2, expecting the flash Q3 the way experienced players know when to expect Yasuo's tornadoes.

And some backlines require flash and another gapcloser to reach (e.g. flash Vi ult), which Morde isn't going to have.

I don't think it's as strong as you're implying, once people learn how to deal with it.

Malicious MetalAug 12, 201519 votes

You're seriously implying the ones in charge of Morde's rework were thinking logically?

Salt Miner 49 ErAug 12, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IkME8xKo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-12T14:47:32.581+0000)

You're seriously implying the ones in charge of Morde's rework were thinking logically?

This is why I don't trust a damned thing CertainlyT says. Ever.

The FastAug 13, 20156 votes

Unpopular opinion: I think the Mordekaiser weakness is ingeniously designed. It does a lot, and has a lot of implications with so little actually changed.

At the same time, I think Mordekaiser may have been the wrong champion for the rework, and this W really needs to be self-castable. All in all I'm actually looking forward to a melee bot laner, who I personally believe will do relatively well compared to people's expectations.

KingopantsAug 13, 20151 votes

I mean it's better than the Annie system of having passive stacks live forever. The Q stacks dissipate so you actually have a chance to return to lane if they have flash and Q up.

The FastAug 13, 20152 votes

That flash 3rd Q thing is really not going to be as strong as you think. Morde has a much harder time surviving as a full AP carry. He's going to do hella damage, but its not going to be 1-shot unless morde is just horrifically fed beyond control

MetalGearTeemuAug 12, 20159 votes

Hmm... Garens getting some buffs, but since he has such a reputation as being impossible to kite AT ALL ( huehuehue ) we'll nerf his stickiness.

We can't have hyper mobile champs like Garen pushing healthy mobility champions like leblanc, nid, and lee sin onto the bench. Fizz

MortekaiserAug 13, 20154 votes

http://gfycat.com/WelltodoVigorousHeron

VerxintAug 13, 20154 votes

I actually don't get this claim.

"here's a guy who WILL outlevel you unless you force him back multiple times. His entire kit is built around never having to go back and constantly sustaining. When he outlevels you, he can guarenteed win a fight or force you out of lane, then take dragon, which is risky to contest because if you dont take it, now you have to fight the dragon"

Honestly, the new kit doesn't sound any better to play against.

ParaBellamAug 12, 20153 votes

The entire Juggernaut update is pretty much "Obliterate IF and only IF you can get in range to get them. It's also harder to get into range". Which is pretty goddamn crappy as the champs' innate problems are still the same. Which is, getting kited.

Garen's silence got nerfed hard, but damage was buffed. Darius doesn't have MS on his bleed anymore, and his moves are more choreographed (Q for instance). Skarner is... Skarner. Don't know much about him, so I won't pretend to know his changes. Morde is pretty much the same in terms of skills, but has less damage and requires another person to maximize it.

Big LincolnAug 12, 20158 votes

he has more damage, for certain, but now he REQUIRES someone be at his side at all times to actually access it which immediately should make any rational person hate it, and on top of that he requires them to pick from a VERY SPECIFIC pool of champions in order to both hold them down long enough for him to do his full Q combo and to stay i nthe fight so he can get off his W

but hey "mord shouldn't be a poke mage, huarhaur he's wearing armor make him a fighter why does he even use magic"

OmniphonicAug 12, 20153 votes

'Mordekaiser will be less toxic to play against'

yeah, because nobody will ever be playing him. Mordekaiser will be less ________ to play against. mad libs time, whatever you say is true.

people report me for taking smite on bot lane nunu, even after I FUCKING SOLOED DRAGON FOR MY TEAM. This is the stupidest fucking idea anybody at riot's ever had.

Big LincolnAug 12, 20156 votes

mord rework is an excuse for bad players to "break the meta" because they don't know how to do anything outside of it on their own

i'm sure we'll see a solwolf video about mordekaiser mid/top a few months from now and how crazy original he is

3TWarriorAug 13, 20151 votes

well, at least he has the power to give them the power to play...then, when he's used in the lcs and totally destroys because of his high damage combined with his lane partner (I think chogath will make an appearance if not banned), then he won't even have that once nerfed again

3TWarriorAug 13, 20151 votes

MatezoideAug 12, 20152 votes

Played Mordekaiser on the PBE a lot, can confirm he is way more toxic now.

Also far more feast-and-famine than ever, which is a toxic mechanic as well.

ƒoesAug 13, 20152 votes

imo Mordekaiser was really toxic to play against. i mean really, he's just a giant fuckin pile of metal that gives you the double-whammy every time you come close, and gets a fuckin free shield that blocks some 7k damage, then he puts some weird ghost thing over your head and makes you his bitch for the next minute or so.

trying to be funny, guys, don't hate me.

RisurinAug 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IkME8xKo,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-12T14:44:14.214+0000)

"Can I land my third hit of Q? Great I'll oneshot anyone who gets in melee range"

"Am I getting kited? Proceed to do nothing all game, great"

truly engaging, innovative gameplay

not gonna lie, as ADC main, i'm kinda hoping that mordekaiser just doesnt become a thing, at least bot lane. I love playing my champions, and i can hardly paly most of them outside of bot lane, dont need to have other kind of carries being better then them and replace them. Feels bad for the people that liked mordekaiser tho.

sp441Aug 13, 20153 votes

You should be ecstatic about having an enemy that needs to slowly hobble over towards you in order to do anything.

3TWarriorAug 13, 20151 votes

while simultaneously only needing a small moment to chunk a fifth of the opponent's hp and at the same time gain a very strong shield from minions

if he has another bully in lane with him (blitzcrank/thresh/leona/chogath), their damage just becomes too much for a squishy to counter, at least until mid to end game

then...the ADC's rule shrug it's sad really, but it gives mordekaiser a purpose: make the enemy work for you

and he can potentially jungle again

RisurinAug 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You should be ecstatic about having an enemy that needs to slowly hobble over towards you in order to do anything.

my concerns is mostly, about :

1- Riot is clearly trying to undermine the marksman role, they have nerfed them a lot in the last months and now they are slowly pushing non-marksman bot lane. I like my marksman, and i wish i could choice whichever to play equally , instead of just not playing them at all, if the "alternatives" are just better at all stages of the game, outshining ADCs and pushing them out of the game

2- what kind of buff they gonna give him if he end up not being great bot lane, as everyone seem to expect? maybe they wont, or maybe they will make him eventually retardly overpowered, and a must pick/ban.

3- people will go monkey to try it, so i might end up not getting my role as often for a time after the patch. (not really a big deal, but still counts)

People seem to say he will be bad, but i want to see his final number and see some play before judgeing him.

Silents429Aug 13, 20151 votes

"Am I getting kited? Proceed to do nothing all game, great"

Not that this has changed before, but theirs the magical word called teamwork. I know it's hard to fathom but relying on your team to keep the enemy in range for you to blow them up is good. Not every champion has to excel on their own.

Big LincolnAug 13, 20151 votes

Mordekaiser's identity is not primarily a teamfighter with a hyper-reliance on his teammates, sorry

i know that sarcasm is SUPERCOOL but needing an ally to both hold them down -and- actually be there so you can use 2 of your abilities is not in any way good

Silents429Aug 13, 20151 votes

He never had a primary identity, before the big 4 juggernaut rework reveal, people were debating and argueing about what he actually was, as a champion and as his role.

They settled on making him an AP bruiser bot laner.

And why is encouraging team play not good?

Big LincolnAug 13, 20152 votes

he had an identity as a monster-pusher and an AoE damage pump who was strong at every point of the game with fair tradeoffs for his power at every stage of the game, with the added power of being able to duel a good size of the cast in a 1v1 thanks to his damage output. i could even say he had the potential to carry games

now, he is a very WEAK pusher with a very weak 1v1 if you aren't just slapping each other in melee range with no thought going into kiting or evasive maneuvering. Sure, he is very powerful 1v1 if this doesn't happen, but if that's the case it's safe to say they're not that good to begin with

it's not "encouraging" team play, it's forcing me to pair with someone that i probably don't like in order to function. that's not good, that's bad in both game design and as far as a theme approach goes. A champion doing better with teammates to capitalize is fine and dandy. A champion who cannot function in a decent portion of their kit without someone is not, especially when they trade even more than they've already sacrificed for more unreliable damage as a champion who, by any logical standard, should have reliable damage.

Silents429Aug 13, 20151 votes

No he did not have an identity. His dueling capability was set around him taking no damage because of his broken passive, and being "forced" to pair with someone you may or may not like is something you need to learn how to do because it's an essential skill throughout your life time, surely you can manage it in a team based game, otherwise don't play him.

Big LincolnAug 13, 20151 votes

you mean like anyone who can buy lifesteal and heal through damage they take?

i gave you what his identity was, and he worked fine in the game because of the price he paid for it

Silents429Aug 13, 20151 votes

Someone healing through damage isn't even close to what he is capable of with his passive, and just go read all the threads by Mordekaiser "mains" they all have differing ideas on what they think Mordekaiser's identity is.

He is only being seen in a distorted positive light because surprise surprise they don't like his rework.

Big LincolnAug 13, 20151 votes

some people play him differently

Most people will tell you that he is a strong pusher and that's almost entirely what he's infamous for besides his 6v4 ultimate

most people who play Mord don't like the rework, for good reason

Silents429Aug 13, 20151 votes

most people who play Mord don't like the rework, for good reason

Most people complaining don't like to change their playstyle or it like when things they are used to change. This is evident by the lastest gameplay changes to Teemo where the number 1 rated teemo main complained he couldn't play Teemo the same way as he did pre changes, despite the changes opening Teemo up for more potential then before.

If you like Morde then adapt your playstyle for the new changes, it's not going to appeal to you because nothing can be done lightly to Mordekaiser to make him healthy and chosen in any meta.

As Phreak put it "See, the problem with posts like these, is they don't comprehend the buffs, especially because anyone who's super ingrained in the old way of playing a champion applies their years of experience with the champion. They've already internalized all the pros and cons of the champions, and it's very hard to break out of those habits."

VhalthoriaAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Most people complaining don't like to change their playstyle or it like when things they are used to change. This is evident by the lastest gameplay changes to Teemo where the number 1 rated teemo main complained he couldn't play Teemo the same way as he did pre changes, despite the changes opening Teemo up for more potential then before.

If you like Morde then adapt your playstyle for the new changes, it's not going to appeal to you because nothing can be done lightly to Mordekaiser to make him healthy and chosen in any meta.

As Phreak put it "See, the problem with posts like these, is they don't comprehend the buffs, especially because anyone who's super ingrained in the old way of playing a champion applies their years of experience with the champion. They've already internalized all the pros and cons of the champions, and it's very hard to break out of those habits."

I don't like this rework for various reasons which I'm going to address this evening after getting out of work and sitting and putting together what I have to say. It has nothing to do with change, I'm in fact open to change as long as it is done the right way.

I'll make another Feedback thread with suggestions on how to improve the new Morde into functionality, viability and fun. And will also try my best to be as objectively as possible.

Silents429Aug 21, 20151 votes

I assume before offering feedback on changes you will actually play a few games with the new Mordekaiser and give it an actual effort first.

You can't build and play him the same as before and if you keep applying old experience to a new champion you are going to have a bad time.

VhalthoriaAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I assume before offering feedback on changes you will actually play a few games with the new Mordekaiser and give it an actual effort first.

You can't build and play him the same as before and if you keep applying old experience to a new champion you are going to have a bad time.

I played yesterday for the whole day with him and I think that's enough to structure some feedback about his current state. So I'm pretty sure the effort was there.

I didn't even bothered building him the old way rather what the patch notes and game suggests me to plus some other experimental items to see their effects on him.

I played as a veteran Morde player by the new rules. So the feedback will be around those things. Don't worry about it.

Silents429Aug 21, 20151 votes

You've put more effort then majority of the people complaining.

JAGMAGAug 13, 20151 votes

team work in solo que? lol

AlopexAug 13, 20151 votes

Go bot lane, hit level 6 while enemy lane is level 4. Might as well Ult the enemy ADC, you'll get it back before they're 6 themselves!

kcStrangerAug 13, 20151 votes

Yup, this version of Mordekaiser seems like from game to game, he'll either be oppressively good or totally useless. That's the definition of annoying to play with or against = permaban.

ZzEslIolZQAug 14, 20151 votes

Listening to certainlyT is like listening to the retarded kid at school who eats sand. Transcend space and time to experience pure bullshit.

Btw are we just gonna let this cancer get away with saying this bs when he made Yasuo, Kalista and Thresh.