new fiora should get her passive on large jungle monsters.

Critmaster Garen·Jul 23, 2015·95 votes·3,135 views

not talking about baron or drake, but gromp, blue buff, red buff, the big wraith, the big golem, and scuttles.

should give her enough damage and sustain to jungle. i dont see why not.

49 Comments

Lord DusteonJul 23, 20158 votes

"Grand Duelist"

"And here we see the mighty and proud duelist of Demacia, dueling chickens and wolves"

That doesn't really fit her at all; her NOT going against an opponent removes most of the point of her being a Duelist.

Critmaster GarenJul 23, 201535 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:02:48.763+0000)

"Grand Duelist"

"And here we see the mighty and proud duelist of Demacia, dueling chickens and wolves"

That doesn't really fit her at all; her NOT going against an opponent removes most of the point of her being a Duelist.

is that really your only argument?

you could say the same about her whacking away at minions in the lane. or say the same about half the champion pool in the game. like every jungler shes still gonna gank and maybe invade and counterjungle.

"nasus is an ancient god, so his first thought when walking into summoners rift is fighting a bunch of chickens and lobsters". "sejuani is a fierce warrior who seeks to rule the freljord. so she walks onto a battlefield on some sunny mountain and starts hitting a giant toad".

thats pretty weak dude. youre getting too meta about this.

Lord DusteonJul 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:08:42.929+0000)

is that really your only argument?

you could say the same about her whacking away at minions in the lane. or say the same about half the champion pool in the game. like every jungler shes still gonna gank and maybe invade and counterjungle.

"nasus is an ancient god, so his first thought when walking into summoners rift is fighting a bunch of chickens and lobsters". "sejuani is a fierce warrior who seeks to rule the freljord. so she walks onto a battlefield on some sunny mountain and starts hitting a giant toad".

thats pretty weak dude. youre getting too meta about this.

Look at her name and gameplay. She's the GRAND DUELIST; she's someone who duels. Junglers do not duel; they either invade where they know they can win, or gank for a temporary 2v1. Her ENTIRE identity and kit is based around dueling, meaning putting her into the mainly PvE and overwhelming odds role is counter to the entire champion.

Yes, gameplay and story segregation, but this goes farther than that and literally spits in the face of the entire champion. You do not take the champion based around honorable duels and 1v1ing and tell them to murder some wildlife before stabbing some dude in the back while he's distracted by your friend.

Critmaster GarenJul 23, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:19:46.030+0000)

Look at her name and gameplay. She's the GRAND DUELIST; she's someone who duels. Junglers do not duel; they either invade where they know they can win, or gank for a temporary 2v1. Her ENTIRE identity and kit is based around dueling, meaning putting her into the mainly PvE and overwhelming odds role is counter to the entire champion.

Yes, gameplay and story segregation, but this goes farther than that and literally spits in the face of the entire champion. You do not take the champion based around honorable duels and 1v1ing and tell them to murder some wildlife before stabbing some dude in the back while he's distracted by your friend.

seriously dude, youre giving this too much thought.

there are so many champions where jungling would thematically not make much sense and theyre still able to. why does the thought grind your gears so much?

the reality of the game will be that past the lane phase there wont be many duels anyways. is she suppsoed to afk, because 5v5's technically dont fit her theme? am i supposed to ingore ganks from my junglers too, because technically its not a duel?

a lot of the game will conist of these situations. if it makes you feel better, technically shes still duelling that blue buff.

Lord DusteonJul 23, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:21:57.580+0000)

seriously dude, youre giving this too much thought.

there are so many champions where jungling would thematically not make much sense and theyre still able to. why does the thought grind your gears so much?

the reality of the game will be that past the lane phase there wont be many duels anyways. is she suppsoed to afk, because 5v5's technically dont fit her theme? am i supposed to ingore ganks from my junglers too, because technically its not a duel?

a lot of the game will conist of these situations.

Except her ultimate focuses her on dueling one specific person still, and due to being a damaging carry she's going to focus on one person in an fight anyway (probably the closest).

This annoys me because her ENTIRE focus, lore, and gameplay is around dueling one person. Making her good at the jungle, a primarily PvE and 2v1 role, is an insult to the entire character and her gameplay. Your suggestion is to take a character based around 1v1ing someone else and make them easily capable of playing the role LEAST likely to be fighting other champions in any way (even in a teamfight she's ulting someone and trying to hit all 4 vitals; her team might be helping and the enemy team hurting her chances, but she is focused on that particular champion and fighting them).

Critmaster GarenJul 23, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:29:58.522+0000)

Except her ultimate focuses her on dueling one specific person still, and due to being a damaging carry she's going to focus on one person in an fight anyway (probably the closest).

This annoys me because her ENTIRE focus, lore, and gameplay is around dueling one person. Making her good at the jungle, a primarily PvE and 2v1 role, is an insult to the entire character and her gameplay. Your suggestion is to take a character based around 1v1ing someone else and make them easily capable of playing the role LEAST likely to be fighting other champions in any way (even in a teamfight she's ulting someone and trying to hit all 4 vitals; her team might be helping and the enemy team hurting her chances, but she is focused on that particular champion and fighting them).

but shes still gonna do exactly that. and if youre not ganking as a jungler, then youre doing something wrong. however likeley it is for you to fight someone is ultimately up to you.

look at it this way. devourer is going to be shit on her, due to how her passive works. she would probably rather go for warrior instead. espeicially considering how good cdr is on her. so you dont really have an incentive to pve the entire time.

she probably rather wants to gank every time she has red buff, since it should help her with moving around her target, triggering her marks. and its easy to apply with the q.

CrettJul 23, 20153 votes

there comes a point when gameplay becomes more important than theme, and I personally think you should try to see how Fiora jungle would look in real gameplay, before making these assumptions

I Main SwainJul 24, 20153 votes

you know the whole of tryndamere's lore and kit is centered around fighting champions. does that mean that it's horrible to have him viable in the jungle?

WizardavarJul 24, 20152 votes

And the fact that he is spilt-pushing and running away most of the time XD

His GoatlinessJul 24, 20154 votes

Jax duels. Xin duels. Yi duels. Are they all supposed to be played in a 1v1 lane exclusively?

Surr20plzJul 24, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:19:46.030+0000)

Junglers do not duel

Stopped reading there and laughed.

You should leave now and never come back.

Mecha MaIphiteJul 24, 20152 votes

Jax junglers don't what bitch?

TheDuelist999Jul 24, 20153 votes

I dont know about giant toads but giant rats can give a dread pirate a run for his money

TheRainInSpainJul 24, 20151 votes

Twitch+Tahm lane too stronk for Gangplank.

The EcdysiastJul 24, 20152 votes

To be fair, she's not supposed to be a jungler. That's why she works so well with minion waves and in trades. The only reason she can jungle now is her massive damage and the complete lack of counterplay to her ultimate.

Critmaster GarenJul 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, she's not supposed to be a jungler. That's why she works so well with minion waves and in trades. The only reason she can jungle now is her massive damage and the complete lack of counterplay to her ultimate.

actually she seems to work pretty terrible with minion waves due to the way her q prioritizes units. she also tends to get stuck and creep blocked unable to move in an enemy wave after a q.

very often if you go in for a poke or trade, the q will target a nearby minion on low health instead of the enemy champion and his mark. thats not a bug, thats how they made the thing prioritise because they think fiora players might want it that way.

i cant imagine any situation, where you would ever want that q to target a minion if a champion is in that circle. you can assume, that if i go close enough for a champion to be in range, i definitely do want to hit that champion and pop the mark, lol.

The EcdysiastJul 24, 20151 votes

Oh no, sorry. I forgot to be clear so you misunderstood.

I meant the only reason she's a jungler now is her current overbearing kit.

Maximum ZileanJul 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:02:48.763+0000)

"Grand Duelist"

"And here we see the mighty and proud duelist of Demacia, dueling chickens and wolves"

That doesn't really fit her at all; her NOT going against an opponent removes most of the point of her being a Duelist.

If that was the case, There would be only 2-3 champions that make sense in the jungle! Have you noticed there really isn't any logic in this game? Here we have the crown prince of demacia, smacking a toad with his spear.

See, doesn't need to make sense. It just works. Champions should not be forced into a role based on their thematics alone. It is just horrible game design.

Zorae42Jul 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:02:48.763+0000)

"Grand Duelist"

"And here we see the mighty and proud duelist of Demacia, dueling chickens and wolves"

That doesn't really fit her at all; her NOT going against an opponent removes most of the point of her being a Duelist.

Maybe it's so that she can take the jgl camps easier during the lanning phase. She's super egotistical right? So clearly all of the jgl buffs and gold belong to her, even when she isn't a jgl-er.

Also, if she can find vital points on a big rock person, kench, and an amorphous blob of goo, then it's really weird for her to not be able to find a vital point on a rock monster, a frog, or a... chicken.

SlackerboyTCJul 23, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:02:48.763+0000)

"Grand Duelist"

"And here we see the mighty and proud duelist of Demacia, dueling chickens and wolves"

That doesn't really fit her at all; her NOT going against an opponent removes most of the point of her being a Duelist.

So then why is Vi a Primary if shes supposed to be "arresting" enemy champions?

Krys StarJul 23, 20151 votes

And I suppose logic should apply to every single aspect of this game, right? Wrong. It's a fantasy game. Take your reality where it properly applies. There's many things in this game that doesn't make sense logically, but does gameplay wise so please stop embarrassing yourself.

TheRakkunJul 24, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:02:48.763+0000)

"Grand Duelist"

"And here we see the mighty and proud duelist of Demacia, dueling chickens and wolves"

That doesn't really fit her at all; her NOT going against an opponent removes most of the point of her being a Duelist.

By that logic:

Kayle Here we see the great angel of judgement. Judging a frog that looked at her funny Jax Here we see the Grandmaster at Arms, practicing his unrivaled power. On a Chicken

Gregor GysiJul 23, 20155 votes

As a former Kha'Zix main I'll tell you something: YOU DON'T WANT HER TO BE VIABLE IN THE JUNGLE! Squieshy and highly snowballing junglers that are actually viable are going to played in the jungle and going to be balanced according to their jungle strength. Fiora will get nerfed because of her jungle strength and compensated with +20% damage to monsters - and then nerfed even more. That's what happened with Kha, so just don't complain about then and just be happy with it.

Hard4HamstersJul 24, 20151 votes

I will agree here. Fiora's new kit makes her to be a lane dominant melee carry and if she is more viable in the jungle, I would fear her strength would be measured in accordance to her jungling power. I understand that Fiora jungle was definitely a style that people liked to play with her old kit, but I think that Riot is emphasizing her "duelist" perspective and that would show stronger in a solo lane than in the jungle.

I feel her passive would be a dead giveaway if she was trying to gank btw; I'm not sure because I'm not sure on the details of acquisition range and fog-of-war conditions, along with how long it takes to "lock on" to a target, so I could be wrong.

Biff ManlyJul 24, 20155 votes

If Quinn's passive can idiotically magnetize to full health Gromp while their support limps away with a sliver of HP, Fiora's should too.

gubigubiJul 24, 20151 votes

Amen! As a Quinn and Fiora player I agree with this statement!

Senna Is ThiccJul 23, 20152 votes

I'd be down with a more jungly Fio

StellafreyjaJul 23, 20151 votes

Was she able to proc her old passive on monsters? I think it would be great, though they'd have to cap the damage against monsters though.

Critmaster GarenJul 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace of Eden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:13:59.006+0000)

Was she able to proc her old passive on monsters? I think it would be great, though they'd have to cap the damage against monsters though.

why would they have to cap it?

the only time when the damage could get over the top would be baron and dragon, and the passive could simply not work on them. otherwise, everyone is going to destroy the large monsters at some point of the game anyways.

CubedJusticeJul 23, 20151 votes

Capping the damage has only really ever applied to epic monsters. It technically applies to all monsters, but the cap is generally around the same as a regular ability.

Heckin SupportJul 23, 20151 votes

I've seen people (including myself) post about this and no rioter has seemed to notice people asking this. She could be a great jungler!

RottedApplesJul 23, 20151 votes

put a damage cap on it and allow her to use it on dargon and baron maybe.

LlamaSpeedJul 24, 20151 votes

why not baron or drake? vayne can do it... why cant fiora?

Critmaster GarenJul 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

why not baron or drake? vayne can do it... why cant fiora?

good point actually. i guess it has to do with the amount of true damage she deals right now. with a good adc build she can get up to like 20% for a single mark.

I GANK LANESJul 24, 20151 votes

yes plz. i already like taking fiora into the jungle as she is now, i can't wait for this update and this would make it even better

TheRainInSpainJul 24, 20151 votes

I think Riot intended her as a laner.

CupkekJul 24, 20151 votes

But... She already CAN jungle...

Critmaster GarenJul 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But... She already CAN jungle...

she just doesnt seem very good at it. the current fiora seems better to jungle, because of the attack speed boost from her e, the shorter cooldown on riposte and because she gains a lot of free ad.

basically, you start w, with a hook from your team, and then e and youre gonna be a lot faster in the jungle than the new fiora. her current passive also helps her with sustain.

if they would give her her passive on large monsters, she could trigger it for some health return and make up for the difference in damage.

Hard PenetratorJul 24, 20151 votes

If her first clear would be on rengar lvl im fine. But I don't think she would be good pick in the jungle because her gapcloser is pretty bad and she doesn't have any hard cc.

Critmaster GarenJul 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfKLwPj3,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2015-07-24T21:01:21.814+0000)

If her first clear would be on rengar lvl im fine. But I don't think she would be good pick in the jungle because her gapcloser is pretty bad and she doesn't have any hard cc.

she has a ranged slow on riposte if she needs it, or a stun if she parries cc. lunge applies red buff and she has a slow on her e. she can also upgrade smite to slow.

i mean shyvana doesnt have cc and shes a decent jungler.

Duchess SnowJul 24, 20151 votes

Junglers definitely duel. Your dueling power is important in deciding what to do when you run into the other jungler. Stronger duelers tend to invade weaker duelers.

However if you really want a personality/lore type reason for her to not use her passive against jungle monsters then you could say that she sees the animals as weak and not worth going all out on.

But really I see no reason she can't be a jungler, she could be one of those duelist junglers that look to go to the enemy jungle and beat them up.

Mecha MaIphiteJul 24, 20151 votes

Right now, she can't even do a full rotation from gromp without a really hard leash.

HupsisJul 24, 20151 votes

I think it would be important to also have her passive against super minions. She can't do anything against them if she builds bruiser'ish.

Allowing item 3071 to reduce super minion armor would also be a nice thing.

I think it might be a bit too strong if the passive applied on jungle monsters. Maybe if it had a damage cap? Or maybe if the time between vitals appearing was longer against jungle monsters.

Critmaster GarenJul 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think it would be important to also have her passive against super minions. She can't do anything against them if she builds bruiser'ish.

Allowing to reduce super minion armor would also be a nice thing.

I think it might be a bit too strong if the passive applied on jungle monsters. Maybe if it had a damage cap? Or maybe if the time between vitals appearing was longer against jungle monsters.

she shouldnt build bruiserish, considering her scalings.

you probably want cleaver on her because it gives some extra health and cdr. im actually wondering if cdr boots would be good on her instead, or maybe both.

but otherwise you want a lot of flat ad. if you want survivability, its probably better to rather go with a bt and a maw.

also, most champions destroy jungle camps without efford by lategame. early, her passive doesnt do that much damage yet.

SoMNiaJul 24, 20151 votes

Yes, please. I think if you have Smite, abilities that target champions should also be able to hit large jungle monsters, in general.

Surr20plzJul 25, 20151 votes

The passive should work on large monsters including Baron and Dragon.

IF the true damage is too much then reduce/remove it ONLY for Baron and Dragon.

Surr20plzJul 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The passive should work on large monsters including Baron and Dragon.

IF the true damage is too much then reduce/remove it ONLY for Baron and Dragon.

But still let her get the speed and the sustain.

Linna ExcelJul 25, 20151 votes

The new fiora should be a jungler.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/GIs7vehA-fiora-update-what

xl Kirito lxJul 25, 20151 votes

If it's all the same, I'd prefer to avoid giving Fiora the ability to jungle. She's already a subpar jungler on live, and her new kit gives her nothing new or useful for a jungler.