why is garen allowed to do 1000 true damage ult when half hp???

xDogMeatx·Oct 19, 2019·3 votes·3,008 views

full AD garen does assassin damage with a tanky output here i thought if im nasus i can go armor and hp to outlast his damage but nope at half hp lvl 16 its a death sentence to even exist even though im going full tanky. he shouldnt be allowed to have a smite vs champions. i mean where is the counterplay at all here. so am i not allowed to exist at all near him regardless of class roles??? btw 450 base damage true damage on ult plus 30% missing hp like thats even fair at all... after dealing assassin burst with no kind of armor or hp items to save me.

22 Comments

MrFawknSunshineOct 19, 20192 votes

armor wont save you but HP will

and for garen to do 1000 damage on ult alone he has to hit you for 550 damage of missing hp

so you have like 1800 hp total. garen is going to kill you no matter what if you are that squishy

xDogMeatxOct 19, 20191 votes

oh believe me i did. i had over 2700 hp in my last battle with him and his ult does 1377 (or something) after one rotation. wheres the counterplay to that 100-50= death.

MrFawknSunshineOct 19, 20191 votes

you say 1 rotation

like in Q E ignite ult ?

not just ULT?

xDogMeatxOct 19, 20192 votes

yes one rotation= i cant exist around him despite having resists and hp/lifesteal/ult.

MrFawknSunshineOct 19, 20191 votes

well garen has always had damage

his Q didnt change,

his ult changed to true damage only now but if you look at the actual #s they are lower in base damage and % damage at all ranks

his E is being nerfed. and well since it scales with attack speed i would figure attack speed debuff should negate some of the damage cuz he cant spin as much while slowed or debuffed

xDogMeatxOct 19, 20191 votes

did that part already but its not the issue there since he can Q cancel it already when im ult Qing him to death. the fact hes able to cleanse wither so easily 2 times is nuts. once from his Q 2nd is his tenacity boost on W with tenacity rune/boots in other words it feels like fighting olafs ult but worse.

MrFawknSunshineOct 19, 20191 votes

yea thats not new

he has always had his Q and W

xDogMeatxOct 19, 20192 votes

thats not the issue though its his ult damage thats OP as hell. in a 1v1 up to 3 members setting garen can destroy with ease despite resists/hp. there should be a anti true damage item if his ult is darius level nuclear bomb 5 stacks.

VerxintOct 19, 20191 votes

Garen ult at rank 3 is 450 + 30% missing up.

For his ult to do 1300 damage, it means 850 damage was from missing UP. Which means you would need to have 2800 missing HP.

As for where is the counterplay for garen... Use wither after his Q primes, walk away Buffer Ult on his silence if youre afraid he will 100-0 you Hold ult if you won't die during silence, use ult to counter his own Stand in minions/monsters to reduce spin damage (highest damage is to closest target) Prolong the fight while keeping health up with lifesteal to maximize ult's effectiveness

Not to mention the inherent counterplay in that Garen has to walk up to you. If he uses his Q to gapclose, he gives up the slow cleanse. If he doesn't, he has no ability to get on anyone unless they facecheck him. In that case the counterplay is map awareness.

xDogMeatxOct 19, 20191 votes

no no no i mean i literally did all you said using minions and also ulting during the encounter during silence. after everything i threw as a defensive measure it never mattered (as nasus) hell i even free farmed my Q to the point where i thought i was free farming. he Qs me (charges in) I W him as a result (lower attack speed) he spins and i ult during spin (since tenacity breaks silence early). all i saw was at 50ish percent it never mattered my lifesteal/ult./w timing.

VerxintOct 19, 20191 votes

What you're saying simply doesn't add up. There is no way Garen did 2800 damage out of 5200 HP in one spin unless he built full damage in which case your freefarmed Q's should obliterate his face.

Either the situation didnt play out as you described, or he was fed, in which case it's not really an argument for balance. Fed champions always seem like bs.

xDogMeatxOct 19, 20191 votes

i looked up my build it was item 3742 item 3065 item 3076 item 3078 item 3111 plus ult i had 180 cs . he has item 3031 item 3046 item 3006 item 1053 item 3053 he has 228 at end. i shoulda been able to outtank him though i had my lifesteal/rapid fire/resists Qs. (just checked they had a couple infernals idk if that had a BIG impact).

VerxintOct 20, 20191 votes

He has four items that give damage, two of which are basically pure damage. You have three items, only one of which gives armor. The one you do have is doesn't actually give much bulk for its cost compared to other options. You also don't have Tabis.

AND he had internals?

He has an entire full item on you and you opted not to purchase the items that counter his damage. Why didn't you get a Randuins? Why didn't you rush Ninja Tabi?

Not only does he have more gold than you and his items have more effect on you than yours on him, his items also synergize with themselves. IE and PD multiply damage. Gage adds a huge pool of AD to feed into IE crits.

You have maybe 70 bonus armor and some HP and you wonder why it won't stop him. You got outplayed in the shop screen and in the tab screen.

xDogMeatxOct 20, 20191 votes

i dont think omen (my guess) negates his crit spins i think it only applies to autos mainly.

2ndly you said hp is more important then armor and merc treads are for tenacity so i can activate my ult after before he spins. tabis is just a cloth armor attached to boots his E isnt a auto attack i want that 60% tenacity bonus and tabis doesnt offer that part i mean if his E is registered as a auto attack then sure i would buy tabis.

it doesnt explain how he can tank my team and while going full AD with a nuclear ult

VerxintOct 20, 20191 votes

Randuins is still better for defense than DMP, not even counting clutch use of the active. I never said HP is more important than armor. You do know you can buffer your ult on his silence animation right? Its a really slow one. Getting mercs for that reason is pointless. Even if you don't, the armor on Tabis will do way more than a bit shorter silence.

And again, you're fighting someone who has a full item over you and a better build for dueling

As for "tank my team and while going full AD with a nuclear ult" given what we've discussed so far I am very skeptical to take that statement at face value. Sounds to me like a Garen got fed and had 4 damage items before 30 minutes and a level lead. Any champion is going to be strong in that situation.

Granted, Garen is overturned right now. But that wouldn't have changed your 1v1.

xDogMeatxOct 20, 20191 votes

k.... just saying i have no reason to lie i came to the boards for outside input mainly not to go all EGO trip thing lel. i still hate true damage though since my resists dont matter. ill admit its tilting to face that damage type.

VerxintOct 20, 20191 votes

Not lying, but given your assessment of the 1v1 and what I learned when you gave more information I would guess the other claim is similar - it sounds overpowered until you realize this Garen is rocking at least a 2k gold lead

Project XayahOct 19, 20192 votes

Better question; Why is Cho'Gath allowed to do 2000+ true damage every minute while building full tank???

RhegatisOct 19, 20191 votes

Because he is immobile and bad positioning vs him should be punished, only low elos are complaining about it. And stop lying because his true dmg scales to late its really hard to do 2k you basically need to build like 1500 AP(50% scalling) or at least 13k(10% scalling from BONUS hp) hp witch is impossible without stoneplate active(this is really weak item now). There is a lot counterplay mechanics to him.

xDogMeatxOct 20, 20191 votes

dont forget its irritating to be stun locked into eternity while sylas can do cho gaths ult job better.

The SaitamaJan 30, 20201 votes

¨SO why is vayne allowed to do 500 true dmg in 2 basic attacks

xDogMeatxJan 31, 20201 votes

a little late its 3 months ago.... i woulda answered with cuz 12% maximum hp true damage. ill agree as a player who plays a tanky champs its ridiculous where my resists are meaningless.