Syndra could probably still use a buff

Abyssphere··3 votes·883 views

Her win rate has gone up to 46% now, which is +5% on what it hit when her nerfs originally came out. It seems to have stabilized again, so people seem pretty used to the new E. However, her win rate is still 2% lower than it was and her play rate is about a third of what it was pre-nerf. I don't feel like it's a great position to be in for most of your more casual players to have abandoned you and yet have your win rate quite a bit lower.

I don't know what can be done to buff her Q without buffing its end game damage (which is already great) unless you go for uneven scaling like the new Zilean Q (not ideal) or reverting it to the old standard of 70/110/150/190/230. Potential suggestion would just be a lowered mana cost to make it less of a mana waste early on. You could go for a random other solution like reduced mana cost on W or higher AP scaling on E, but I don't know what's really best.

Should Syndra get a buff and if so, what should it be?

12 Comments

TecToNiiC3 votes

It would be nice if level 1 q was stronger than her aa

Nausicäa 2 votes

What they should do is scaled back the base damage nerfs. Cut them in half.

kcStranger1 votes

I honestly like that idea too, and I think the only reason it won't happen is because it will make the numbers weird (60/102.5/145/187.5/230). Rito doesn't like .5's.

kcStranger2 votes

So, what we're left with after the nerfs and partial reverts is a slightly decreased stun width and significantly lowered Q damage at early levels. The early nerfs were definitely too harsh, but I think the E is in a good place now. Now, we just have to decide how much of a lane bully Syndra should be. She was pretty brutal before, but the lowered Q damage has hurt that a lot, and I think it's fair to say that while it was the original E nerfs that made Syndra temporarily unplayable (due to missing a lot more stuns throughout the entire game), the Q nerfs are probably largely responsible for her currently lowered win rate.

I think that Riot has to decide whether they want her to be a (more or less) good champion, or just playable. She's playable now; you can pick her up and not feel like you're committing a sin against your team. But I think she needs just a little more (somewhere) to be good. If you look at her stats as a function of player skill, you'll see that they do go up with level; her Diamond win rate is around 48%. I still think she's just a little underpowered, though.

As a Syndra player, I personally believe that the best balance choice would be to put the Q right in between where it was and where it is, 60/102.5/145/187.5/230. I'm pretty sure that won't happen because they want everything to be rounded off to 5's. Assuming we want to leave Q where it is, I think the best way to give her a small bump might be to decrease the mana cost on Q (and/or W). This isn't as random of an idea as it might seem. Syndra's mana costs were placed somewhat high to compensate for how powerful the spells were. Before, landing a few Q's did good work poking your opponent out of lane; now, the lowered damage means that you'll need a good number more Q's to do the same job. The problem is, firing off that many Q's will run you out of mana really quickly. Lowering the mana cost on Q in particular would give Syndra back the ability to poke her opponents out of lane, but make her "earn it" because she'd need a few more hits than she used to need. I also mention W because its mana cost is actually really high (60/70/80/90/100); you use it a lot to farm, but that also really hurts your mana.

From Riot's perspective, I don't think giving damage back to Q is going to happen. I do think that lowered Q and W mana costs is something they should check out, though. A lot of their recent nerf/rework decisions have focused on giving champions the potential to do powerful things, but making them work more for it. Right now, Syndra has a lot of trouble bullying opponents do to the combination of low Q damage and high mana costs. By addressing that problem through the mana costs rather than the damage, Syndra could regain her bully potential but require more skill to realize that potential, which I think is something Riot might be interested in.

All that being said...I imagine Riot is probably happy enough with where they've got her that they're be focusing their effort in other areas. So, I'm pessimistic about any small buffs being forthcoming.

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

So, what we're left with after the nerfs and partial reverts is a slightly decreased stun width and significantly lowered Q damage at early levels. The early nerfs were definitely too harsh, but I think the E is in a good place now. Now, we just have to decide how much of a lane bully Syndra should be. She was pretty brutal before, but the lowered Q damage has hurt that a lot, and I think it's fair to say that while it was the original E nerfs that made Syndra temporarily unplayable (due to missing a lot more stuns throughout the entire game), the Q nerfs are probably largely responsible for her currently lowered win rate.

I think that Riot has to decide whether they want her to be a (more or less) good champion, or just playable. She's playable now; you can pick her up and not feel like you're committing a sin against your team. But I think she needs just a little more (somewhere) to be good. If you look at her stats as a function of player skill, you'll see that they do go up with level; her Diamond win rate is around 48%. I still think she's just a little underpowered, though.

As a Syndra player, I personally believe that the best balance choice would be to put the Q right in between where it was and where it is, 60/102.5/145/187.5/230. I'm pretty sure that won't happen because they want everything to be rounded off to 5's. Assuming we want to leave Q where it is, I think the best way to give her a small bump might be to decrease the mana cost on Q (and/or W). This isn't as random of an idea as it might seem. Syndra's mana costs were placed somewhat high to compensate for how powerful the spells were. Before, landing a few Q's did good work poking your opponent out of lane; now, the lowered damage means that you'll need a good number more Q's to do the same job. The problem is, firing off that many Q's will run you out of mana really quickly. Lowering the mana cost on Q in particular would give Syndra back the ability to poke her opponents out of lane, but make her "earn it" because she'd need a few more hits than she used to need. I also mention W because its mana cost is actually really high (60/70/80/90/100); you use it a lot to farm, but that also really hurts your mana.

From Riot's perspective, I don't think giving damage back to Q is going to happen. I do think that lowered Q and W mana costs is something they should check out, though. A lot of their recent nerf/rework decisions have focused on giving champions the potential to do powerful things, but making them work more for it. Right now, Syndra has a lot of trouble bullying opponents do to the combination of low Q damage and high mana costs. By addressing that problem through the mana costs rather than the damage, Syndra could regain her bully potential but require more skill to realize that potential, which I think is something Riot might be interested in.

All that being said...I imagine Riot is probably happy enough with where they've got her that they're be focusing their effort in other areas. So, I'm pessimistic about any small buffs being forthcoming.

Exactly how I feel about everything! It'd be great for her mana costs to be lower, maybe 40/45/50/55/60 on Q or even moving W to the current Q mana cost...

kcStranger1 votes

I always like making conservative buffs/nerfs and adjusting further only if necessary. If I were in charge, I would test out a flat reduction by 10 mana at all ranks for Q and W, so 30/40/50/60/70 for Q and 50/60/70/80/90 for W. But, I think there's only about a 5% chance that Riot gives Syndra any more attention in the near future. She's playable again, and they'll probably devote their manpower to other champs for the time being. (And some do need more work than Syndra: Azir, Kassadin, Veigar, Zilean, Urgot ffs...)

DJ Di01 votes

I think buffing Athenes' mana regen would make a lot of mages better.

Truthteller1 votes

I second that, make it at least 150% base mana regen.

Lusth1 votes

I propose for Riot to delete her instead. Anyone with me?

#gut wyndra 2015

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Eh. We'll see. I'm not opposed to her staying like this for another week or two and see if the community gets used to it. If not, sure. Small buffs, I guess to her stun width? If it gets too close to what it was originally, it'll be the same problem all over again.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Eh. We'll see. I'm not opposed to her staying like this for another week or two and see if the community gets used to it. If not, sure. Small buffs, I guess to her stun width? If it gets too close to what it was originally, it'll be the same problem all over again.

IMO her stun width is perfect now. Anything more and it'll be pointless to have reduced it in the first place - it'll be hitting when it shouldn't once more. They have to look at other parts of her kit.

Fasmodey1 votes

No buff no nerf, please. She is in a good place right now. I dont want her popular.

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