Riot needs to stop lying by saying that they don't balance around pro play

Blåbæret·Jul 28, 2018·65 votes·12,457 views

Come on - who do you think you're kidding?

You have a whole bunch of champions basically unplayable outside of organized play living in their own microcosmos and which are not a part of the game the VAST MAJORITY (as in 99.9%) of your player base is playing. and are both garbage-tier outside of pro play. AT LEAST 50% of the balance changes made are aimed at what you see in pro play. Weak turrets, snowball, damage, baron etc. etc. are all the way they are thanks to this tiny segment of your game called pro play which much less than 1% of your player base engages in.

But hey, if the game goes to shit because Riot refuses to listen, it's not going to affect us much. There are plenty of games out there. We ain't the ones losing our livelihood due to stubborness and greed-blinded eyes.

43 Comments

BlakiepugJul 28, 201825 votes

I feel like the incoming Tahm Kench nerfs are definitive proof that Riot balances for proplay. Tahm has been struggling outside of proplay for so long, yet for some reason he is receiving hard nerfs with practically no compensation. I really hate this current balance team.

TonyTonyMordecaiJul 28, 20182 votes

Yet he's getting buffed if he uses his eat on enemies. Kay, why not remove ally eat entirely then if there's a negative to trying to save an ally? Unless I'm blowing things out of proportion. I only really see Tahm when my friend plays him as support.

Fízz v2Jul 28, 201812 votes

They nerf champs that are broken in pro play, but they dont balance everything around it. Otherwise assassins woulde been meta mid lane at some point in the last 3 years for longer than a few patches xd

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 28, 201812 votes

They...don't though. At least not exclusively.

It's why you see random changes like Poppy suddenly getting some weird power changes. It's why you see Volibear suddenly nerfed despite never being seen in a game for fuckin' ages. It's why Riot's goal this season was to "open up more roles and champs" despite Pros not really caring at all about that. Riot balances around casual play a lot more than people think.

Akali is SO HOTJul 28, 201811 votes

They have said plenty of times that they also balance around pro play. Why are people trying to act like they are lying and say they don't? Here is a snip from something Meddler said yesterday in his Gameplay Thoughts:

Some tanks are proving to have some of the difficulties being balanced between pro and regular play that a few other champs (Ryze etc) have. Gragas has also been such a case, Zac and Sejuani are now also creating some problems in that regard too, indicating our approach with their updates last year had some significant issues.

Do you guys just not read anything they say at all?

LeetriJul 29, 20182 votes

People looking for reasons to be angry only read the parts that benefit their agenda.

D357R0Y3RJul 29, 20182 votes

they said they don't ONLY balance around pro play, which does not mean they don't balance around pro play at all

but the boards do not read just like you said, and then they get in the bandwagon "wow, riot is only balancing for pro play they don't care about soloq"

meanwhile wukong was dominating pro play right? yup

EedatJul 28, 20187 votes

....................when did they say they never make some decisions around proplay?

BlåbæretJul 28, 20184 votes

What?

EedatJul 28, 20187 votes

Riot needs to stop lying by saying that they don't balance around pro play

How are they lying? They never denied that certain changes are 100% for pro play lmao

Warlord RhinarkJul 28, 201825 votes

{quoted}

....................when did they say they never make some decisions around proplay?

Read the Taliyah changes a few patches ago.

They literally said that she was fine in Solo Q, but because of Pro play she's now a Jungler.

KrullyJul 28, 20189 votes

Azir item 3070

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20181 votes

"fine in solo queue"

pickban jungler isn't exactly fine

Warlord RhinarkJul 28, 20188 votes

{quoted}

"fine in solo queue"

pickban jungler isn't exactly fine

Did you even read what I said?

This was before she became a Jungler.

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20181 votes

Ok? Before she became a jungler she still was breaking solo queue in mid lane?

Warlord RhinarkJul 28, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Ok? Before she became a jungler she still was breaking solo queue in mid lane?

Breaking?

Wasn't she sub-par at best with a negative win ratio?

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20181 votes

pickban in diamond plus is "sub par"

inplaneJul 28, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IMv9PRcv,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-07-28T12:03:12.912+0000)

Read the Taliyah changes a few patches ago.

They literally said that she was fine in Solo Q, but because of Pro play she's now a Jungler.

We Taliyah mains have experienced Riot's balance philosophies far and wide. I can say with absolute certainty that this topic is 100% truth.

IfnethJul 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

We mains have experienced Riot's balance philosophies far and wide. I can say with absolute certainty that this topic is 100% truth.

She’s also a good midlaner now. 54% winrate, albeit with a <1% pickrate because her Jungle is too good to waste her on Mid and she’s banned constantly regardless, not to mention seeing her bad matchups often because of the midlane assassin meta.

But once Riot brings tanks back (per their post) she will become a monster of solo-queue and professional play in both roles. Games will lengthen, frontlines will appear, and teamfights will happen more often. She will have time to outscale, play safe, and deal lots of damage.

PaffWasTakenJul 28, 20187 votes

Shen rest in pieces, sweet prince. Shame on those who nerfed your "balance".

InfernapeJul 28, 20181 votes

Ornn Sejuani RIP

SalsonJul 28, 20185 votes

To be fair, they said they don't balance ONLY for pro play. Otherwise you'd see bullshit champs like Yi in pro play....causing the game to lose half it's playerbase,

InfernapeJul 28, 20181 votes

Yi was pick or ban for a short time recently. He dominated quite a few games in the LCK.

SalsonJul 28, 20181 votes

I think that was only because of funnel comps. Still, the few Taric+Yi games I was in pro play were....really really sad.

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20183 votes

What's wrong with balancing around pro play and high elo?

Sweet TennesseeJul 28, 20185 votes

{quoted}

What's wrong with balancing around pro play and high elo?

Because a pro-play nerf is usually a drastic change for Solo Q meanwhile Solo Q nerfs are usually a slap on the hand in pro scene.

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20182 votes

high elo solo queue is about the same meta as pro play, so when people say "oh sej got nerfed because of pro play" meanwhile before the nerfs she was breaking diamond+ elo

BlåbæretJul 28, 20184 votes

{quoted}

high elo solo queue is about the same meta as pro play, so when people say "oh sej got nerfed because of pro play" meanwhile before the nerfs she was breaking diamond+ elo

Lol what? Organized play vs. randoms. They're entirely different.

AirKingNeoJul 28, 20181 votes

the same champions broken in pro are the same champions broken in diamond+ believe it or not

DeνiruchiJul 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

the same champions broken in pro are the same champions broken in diamond+ believe it or not

Except in solo Q you have random strangers matched together trying to make plays on their own, and in pro play you have 5ppl premades with communication and knowing how to play with each other's styles. Communication alone makes a big difference on champions that would have nearly no impact playing on their own.

swimcris111Jul 29, 20183 votes

They need to stop lying and saying they're balancing at all

CraktiteJul 29, 20183 votes

Azir Elise Gragas Galio Kalista Karma Lissandra Nidalee Ornn Sejuani Shen Viktor Taliyah I like click on the old artwork of Arhi to choose champ.

IfnethJul 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Many of those champions were also oppressive in high-elo play. Azir, Viktor, Gragas, and Nidalee all come to mind.

LauchmelderJul 29, 20182 votes

That doesn't mean you nerf them into oblivion and let them rot there.

I'm speaking for Azir here, instead of finally ripping off his stupid ass shuffle (a gimmick too many players think as being his defining move) and making him balancable they chose to just nerf him over and over and then tell his playerbase that they're halting his changes until they have an idea about what they want to do with him. God forbid giving him a different E would fix his problems, that would be way too easy after all.

IfnethJul 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IMv9PRcv,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2018-07-29T18:12:47.771+0000)

That doesn't mean you nerf them into oblivion and let them rot there.

I'm speaking for Azir here, instead of finally ripping off his stupid ass shuffle (a gimmick too many players think as being his defining move) and making him balancable they chose to just nerf him over and over and then tell his playerbase that they're halting his changes until they have an idea about what they want to do with him. God forbid giving him a different E would fix his problems, that would be way too easy after all.

They tried over and over with Ryze, and he just wound up still overpowered. You would have to almost delete the champion to fix them.

Clowns SuckJul 30, 20181 votes

I've heard it said that Ryze is impossible to balance as long as he has that point and click snare. Which none of the reworked ever removed afaik. Just allowed him to remove most of his weaknesses when he was good. Whats the downside of being a machine gun mage or skillshot based if you can just force your opponent to sit still with a click?

Then again I haven't really played him seriously I'm just going off what some of my more league knowledgeable friends have said over the years.

DarkKatalystJul 28, 20182 votes

Well, I think the heart of the problem is actually that Riot is balancing around money. If pro-players didn't lead to revenue or growth for League, I don't see why Riot would care about them. So what we should be asking is that Riot balances around the general player experience.

Riot is, in part, chasing the Olympic e-sport dream with a make-it-or-break-it mentality. It won't work with the direction they're going overall, and they are breaking the game.

LibidoJul 28, 20181 votes

item 3070 Shen

Pika FoxJul 29, 20181 votes

They never said they didnt. They dont just balance around pro/lcs play. If they did, youd see lots of teemo, yi, trynd, kata etc buffs, very few nerfs in general, and youd have far fewer patches, maybe one or two a year.

But instead of just balancing for pro, they balance for all ELOs, and for pro they balance less for them to be comfortable and effective but more so people watching can enjoy the viewing experience (which is also important for anyone who streams, even casually for fun such as myself)

deadlychuckJul 29, 20181 votes

They don't they balance around viewers.

That's not just pro-play, that's also twitch and youtube play.

The introduction of the "assassin" class could arguably just be an embodiment of the kind of content that people were gushing over around the time that riot started actually producing champions attempting to accomplish the "assassin fantasy" that we know today. It's all about those montage clips and that feeling of absolute slaughter when the top tier pro player pulls off a sick combo or you watch a masters level streamer smurf it up at diamond ranks.

They tried to push that kind of viewing experience into the game as gameplay experience. It doesn't work, it's never worked, and they ended up causing so many problems trying to stick to their guns in their decision to introduce such a play style.