Riot : "We're reworking assassins because they should have a delayed burst"

Beatrice falls·Jul 29, 2018·19 votes·5,238 views

Also Riot : releases buffs Electrocute

Can I not be blown up in 0.3sec by a that AA + Q me ?

18 Comments

Edge of DaybreakJul 29, 20187 votes

Welcome to why balancing around low elo doesn't work. Bad players complained. Riot listened knowing that listening to low tier players is never a good idea in terms of balance but they wanted to appease a large section of players at the cost of a few. Now we have irreparable damage to the game that could have been avoided quite easily.

DrCyanideJul 30, 20187 votes

Please, point me to the low elo threads crying out for a stronger version of Thunderlord's Decree, an AD Assassin item, and a burst item for a DPS class. I'll wait.

Edge of DaybreakJul 30, 20184 votes

I should point you to the massive pile of threads asking for changes but having 0 suggestions what those changes should be. Guess what when people bitch for change but have 0 idea what you want you get change. Assassins's arent a DPS class they are burst so I don't get how you allowed yourself to list that but okay. It's like people bitching about damage being too high now with 0 thought on how it should be fixed. It's not going to accomplish what you want because riot isn't trying to butcher the game more. Every time they listen to any form of low elo we get the massive issues you guys complain about daily. Blindly supporting terrible ideas has gotten us hear but for some reason people think that if we keep doing that it's going to fix things.

AnAggravatedPimpJul 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I should point you to the massive pile of threads asking for changes but having 0 suggestions what those changes should be. Guess what when people bitch for change but have 0 idea what you want you get change. Assassins's arent a DPS class they are burst so I don't get how you allowed yourself to list that but okay. It's like people bitching about damage being too high now with 0 thought on how it should be fixed. It's not going to accomplish what you want because riot isn't trying to butcher the game more. Every time they listen to any form of low elo we get the massive issues you guys complain about daily. Blindly supporting terrible ideas has gotten us hear but for some reason people think that if we keep doing that it's going to fix things.

Do you know the definition of insanity?

DrCyanideJul 30, 20182 votes

I should point you to the massive pile of threads asking for changes but having 0 suggestions what those changes should be. Guess what when people bitch for change but have 0 idea what you want you get change.

Most of the threads about Thunderlords were asking for reduced damage or improved consistency between champions. If champ A needs to use 3 spells/autos to proc it, so should champ B - none of the "this spell counts as 3 because X, this auto counts as a spell as well because Y". It was pretty specific changes.

Assassins's arent a DPS class they are burst so I don't get how you allowed yourself to list that but okay.

item 3095 scales with Crit and provides Attack Speed - both stats that target Marksman (DPS class). It's passive is a burst of damage.

It's like people bitching about damage being too high now with 0 thought on how it should be fixed.

Um... what? It takes next to zero thought to realize how to fix it. You either reduce the damage provided by runes, increase the resistances available to champions, reduce the AP/AD of items, reduce Base Damage of abilities, reduce the damage of Ignite, reduce Fire/Earth Dragon damage boosts, or any combination there off.

People may not know the exact ratio of how much to remove, but in general players can expect to see some combination of those damage reductions applied.

It's not going to accomplish what you want because riot isn't trying to butcher the game more. Every time they listen to any form of low elo we get the massive issues you guys complain about daily. Blindly supporting terrible ideas has gotten us hear but for some reason people think that if we keep doing that it's going to fix things.

You repeat the same claim that it's "low elo" that's caused these problems, despite posting trends not backing it up.

Linna ExcelJul 30, 20182 votes

That's bugged me about stormrazors ever since it was announced. Why did riot give ADCs that weird crit/burst item in the same patch they were nerfing crit as a whole. For awhile I thought that because of the passive and high AD, I thought that Assassins would jump all over the item. item 3147 + item 3095 would give your first AA a huge burst.

Pika FoxJul 30, 20181 votes

If youre buying both dusk AND storm, youre no longer relevent. Both are early game items that fall off later, and youve already spent nearly 7k or more.

LegitBusinessmanJul 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Welcome to why balancing around low elo doesn't work. Bad players complained. Riot listened knowing that listening to low tier players is never a good idea in terms of balance but they wanted to appease a large section of players at the cost of a few. Now we have irreparable damage to the game that could have been avoided quite easily.

Rank is irrelevant. That has nothing to do with this post. It doesn't matter what rank you are you literally only need a pulse to see the inconsistency in design philosophies. gtfo with that elitist crap.

Btw you've maxed out at gold the last 4 years.

Warlord RhinarkJul 30, 20183 votes

Saltran where you at?

I need you to yeet on these goofs with your sick facts.

Linna ExcelJul 30, 20182 votes

I miss crit fortune builds.

Hexs FortuneJul 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=II0Fn0Ia,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-30T14:35:28.476+0000)

I miss crit fortune builds.

It's still workable, particularly if you had a good laning phase. Also, some crit itemization buffs are being worked on behind the scenes, so hold tight.

Linna ExcelJul 30, 20181 votes

That's good to know.

Teridax68Jul 30, 20181 votes

I think the fundamental contradiction here was releasing Duskblade of Draktharr, a front-loaded burst item, in an update that claimed to delay the burst of assassins. In the end, after a couple seasons of rebalancing, the net result is that assassins have more front-loaded burst than they used to, not less. Of course, most AD champions now have those options as well, with some marksmen in particular gaining access to multiple sources of upfront burst, so assassins only stand out in how they get to apply their own burst with very little forewarning. Removing these bursty items, and rebalancing both Runes Reforged and Ignite to avoid abuse (Ignite should probably not count as a stack for Electrocute, or any other ability-based rune for that matter), could go a long way towards establishing a more sane environment.

Pika FoxJul 30, 20181 votes

It does delay burst overall, and requires you to spend gold to spec into more front loaded burst.

Teridax68Jul 31, 20181 votes

It really doesn't? You're also not made to "spec" into anything, Duskblade is both core and a rush item to any AD assassin, as well as other AD champions who similarly want to apply burst, such as Wukong. The net result is still that AD assassins, and AD champions overall, have more front-loaded damage.

Pika FoxJul 31, 20181 votes

Best wukong players in the world never build duskblade. Tiamat does the same and is far more useful.

It being core for most AD assassins doesnt mean you arent giving up other options. Duskblade has a lot of gold value pumped into the up front damage, you lose out on HP/CDR/AR shred of something like cleaver which will average out similar damage numbers over a longer period of time for most assassins that dont have on demand stealth. Regardless of what the boards might think, you are making a tradeoff.

Also, it is still a situational item on a few AD assassins, primarily ones who need tiamat asap for jungle or combos; such as ragoo kitty and kha. Shaco also should rarely be building it, as he needs tiamat the most, and if you arent snowballing early on him its an utter worthless buy.

Teridax68Jul 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=II0Fn0Ia,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-31T06:25:49.373+0000)

Best wukong players in the world never build duskblade. Tiamat does the same and is far more useful.

Interesting, because probuilds tells an entirely different story, with the few high-level players who picked him always rushing Duskblade as their first full item. Where exactly were you getting a different impression?

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=II0Fn0Ia,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-31T06:25:49.373+0000)

It being core for most AD assassins doesnt mean you arent giving up other options. Duskblade has a lot of gold value pumped into the up front damage, you lose out on HP/CDR/AR shred of something like cleaver which will average out similar damage numbers over a longer period of time for most assassins that dont have on demand stealth. Regardless of what the boards might think, you are making a tradeoff.

If the item is a must-buy on AD assassins, then what you are giving up is so minor in value relative to Duskblade that there is no real choice to be made. You are drawing up a false equivalency here. Moreover, Duskblade already provides CDR and armor penetration, whereas HP is not an especially desirable stat on assassins. Cleaver is certainly an attractive purchase, due to its AD/CDR and armor shred, which is why it is often bought later on. Are you actually aware of what you are discussing?

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=II0Fn0Ia,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-31T06:25:49.373+0000)

Also, it is still a situational item on a few AD assassins, primarily ones who need tiamat asap for jungle or combos; such as ragoo kitty and kha. Shaco also should rarely be building it, as he needs tiamat the most, and if you arent snowballing early on him its an utter worthless buy.

Except every AD assassin who gets Tiamat still gets Duskblade. It's not an either-or between the two, as you are trying to pretend here. Duskblade is not a "situational item" by any stretch of the imagination, and is core on Shaco, Rengar and Kha'Zix. You are simply making things up.

Keiros19Jul 30, 20181 votes

These animals in current balance team should not touch anything at all. Everything they've put hands on this season was catastrphic. I'd rather hire new guys and let em balance the game