Sion update, because i think some key kit issues need to be adressed.

Spoofghoul··1 votes·492 views

Just something i was thinking about I like him, obviously, because i have mained him since his rework eons ago. But i think he could use a small update.

His kit is fine, well most of it is, but he has some glaring weak points compared to other tanks which i don't think he has enough compensation for to make him ''fair'' or actually fine in a risk vs reward way..

Let me touch on some of them starting with the biggest one

Sion is highly unreliable being the most telegraphed champion in the game by a wide margin, but it is not just the abilties being telegraphed and skillshots it is his entire kit every tiny bit of it is highly unreliable. His base stats are weak and he needs to farm to make up for it, which is also unreliable in many ways, you can fall behind and it doesn't even have to be your fault, could be a mistake from your jungler or an ally not listening to your mia pings. and your enemy pulls ahead and keeps you down. Or you are forced to roam more then usual to help struggling allies which forces you to give up some cs. So not only is your kit unreliable, your stats are too. Even your passive, not only is it uber telepgraphed, i mean you have to die, and your enemies have full agency over it in that regard, then it takes you a bit to get up giving them ample time to react. There is literally nothing about Sion's kit that is even remotely reliable, in most cases enemies have as much or more agency over your strengths as you do. Now this is fine as it is one of the unique things about Sion, but the rewards for being successful are hardly noteworthy, the only part being the cc really, Damage wise the rewards aren't there either, you don't really have more damage then most other tanks some of your abilities can hit hard, especially the ultimate, and the Q seems to have nice damage too but it's physical damage where most other tanks have way more spammable magic damage and many champions, especially the squishy ones or the ones who might only build minimal defense will lack magic resist, meanwhile everyone has scaling armor but you cannot count on that. The health scaling? well i have calculated that you need at least 800 and sometimes more, to be on par with other tanks base stat wise as far as tanking goes, but considering you cannot reliably stop enemies or thwart their damage output you often need considerably more to be on par tank wise.

Which leads me to the next point

Tank steroids, Sion has them too, but they are lacking As i pointed out the w passive is hardly noteworthy there, and you need to farm early because your damage vs minions and monsters is gimped, more on that later. There is the passive, but it gets progressively weaker as the game goes on to the point of uselessness. Because enemies have as much agency over it as you, but also due to excessive amounts of cc as well as mobility and the natural defensive scaling of enemies.

But the main tank steroid has to be the W active, his shield. Compared to other tanks his steroid lacks uptime and has additional drawbacks on top of it. The closest comparison i can think of would be nautilus shield so i will compare it to that, but other tanks have much more uptime on their steroids as well or have several more reliable ones again with less drawbacks.

If i compere the 2 then you will see the issue First of all the uptime is a lot higher with 18 seconds vs 11 seconds cooldown you might think oh but this is ok, sion's last 6 seconds max nautilus last 10, but the thing is nautilus shield cooldown starts ticking the moment he casts it while sion's the moment it breaks Sion shield has a minimum cooldown of 14 seconds while nautilus is 8 seconds, and this gap gets bigger with cdr, with 40% cdr nautilus shield cooldown goes down to 10.8 seconds but it lasts 10 seconds, so you have 0.8 seconds downtime if it does not break in Sion's case that would be 9,9 seconds

If i play nautilus i feel like i can really spam that fat shield over and over and over with sion that is not the case Damage wise nautilus has another advantage since he gets to keep dealing damage until it breaks so gaining both bulk and damage he even gets an attack reset, Sion on the other hand has to choose

But the main thing here is the uptime Another example would be maokai who can heal for a large amount, while not dealing damage he can literally apply it on every basic attack during a teamfight. by the time Sion gets his second shield maokai has used his passive like 5 times or more already, even with grievous wounds it outclasses sion's tank steroid by a wide margin

And the final issue i have with Sion's kit is the handicap vs minions For a tank who relies waaay more on farm then other tanks he should not be handicapped in farming. It makes sense during the early game because else he might be overbearing. But he should not be this handicapped later on in the game.

To sum it up

I feel like Sion is not properly rewarded for the effort it takes to do his job compared to other tanks, his decision making is also unrewarding compared to other tanks, there is more (important)decision making but it often leads to situation where either call doesn't lead to a satisfying outcome He scales really badly compared to other tanks due to being gimped in stats and tank steroids and being so highly unreliable which gets worse as enemies gain more mobility and cc to outplay you.

The update

Well this is basically a simple set of changes and small buffs, keeping in mind his current counter play and unreliability as unique traits to sion and aiming to make him more rewarding. The changes are also aimed at making Sion a bit more versatile in his build options.

First off some simple stat changes

Health regen: currently highest level 1 regen if i'm not mistaken, and it used to be highest level 18 regen after his rework but he got nerfed there I would simply give him back high health regen by buffing it all the way up to 36 from 23.8 However not without a compensation nerf, his level 1 regen would simply be non existant starting at 2 Basically he gets 2 per level with 0 starting regen. Better scaling and weaker early game exceeding current hp5 by level 9

And now to give him some other changes aimed at making life a bit easier. Q damage vs minions and monsters is currently very weak and handicapped I would simply make it scale down with levels to enable better farming in the late game, without strengthening his early game. To compensate it would gain + 5 mana cost, this will mostly weaken the early game a bit as you would not need to use it as often in the lategame for farming which would make the mana cost increase fairly neutral for mid and late game.

So both changes help Sion to scale a bit better but weaken his early game a bit giving enemies more room to put a halt to him, however they will now also have to more actively push this advantage rather then shutting him down once and be done with it. These are aimed to be more neutral changes to make Sion's scaling less of a joke

2 bigger changes

I also have 2 bigger changes lined up which might be a bit more controversial but they are aimed at making him more rewarding and more versatile in adapting to different situations

W: SOUL FURNACE The passive part will be left untouched

It's the active i want to change a bit

First cast: shield strength; 30 / 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 (+ 50% AP) (+ 8 / 9 / 10 / 11 / 12% maximum health)

The second cast: 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 (+ 40% AP) dealing up to 300% of this depending on how long the shield stays active. + 12% of sion's maximum health

The second set of changes is to the cool down, as you get a 0,5 second refund for every 1 second you detonate early after the first 3 seconds have passed.

Overall this is a net buff, with bigger AP ratio's, though you would need to build AP to benefit from it, come late game the damage part scaling with Sion's hp will get stronger too. though for the most part this will be fairly neutral vs most opponents especially the beefier ones Squishes tend to come with the damage to break the shield or the range to stay out so they should use that to their advantage The higher AP ratio allows sion to make better use of Ap items but that tends to come at the downside of AP items not giving defense so his damage potential will go up (if you keep shield up) but it will be harder to keep the shield up. You can opt to detonate early for shorter cooldown to be more beefy or keep it up for potentially more damage.

E: ROAR OF THE SLAYER This change will be a bit less complicated The 20% armor shred will be removed

In return a new passive, ENRAGE Giving Sion 1/1% / 2/2% / 3/3% / 4/4% / 5/5% armor penetration for every 20% missing health and gaining the full effect during his passive glory in death With optional new effect of glowing axe for clarity, more glow is more pen

Sion now gets more dangerous the closer he gets to death in return for losing some of his utility This is to enhance his play style a bit and it will help his passive stay more relevant. It will also help with his damage later in the game making low hp engages with ultimate more rewarding and making fully charged Q more dangerous.

Last word None of these changes will give Sion less counter play, what they will do is give him more reward and more impactful decision making. While it is true that he does gain more power, this power is conditional, or comes with compensation nerfs His early game will be weaker so you can thwart his scaling better. He can potentially deal more damage if you let him or he builds for it. More risk vs reward decision making for Sion and enemies, with bigger risks and bigger rewards While not having the reliability of other tanks Sion will get better scaling and adaptability/build diversity

Sion is often referred to as the pinnacle of balance, well maybe for his opponents, but the actual rewards are a bit lack luster and it is a bit too easy to shut him down. Well this update will increase the risk a bit, his early game will be weaker, but his late game will be stronger provided you don't get shut down. Though your scaling will be delayed and not simply removed by shutting you down early, to keep it more comparable to other champions with scaling capability in their kit.

3 Comments

Elkington VI1 votes

He seems pretty strong right now honestly. I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone complaining about him at all. The latest buff to Soul Furnace is pretty good and I hope they don't nerf it. Despite this, there are two things I wouldn't mind seeing.

  1. His Q is currently bugged atm. Sometimes the enemy doesn't get stunned or knocked up after you hit them with a charged Q, which is gamebreaking.

  2. Would like to see his shield's damage scale with something he actually builds instead of AP, so he's not forced into building damage to avoid becoming an ult bot late game (with a tank build). In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing his AP scalings removed completely in favor of HP and/or bonus armor/MR scaling (like Malphite, Sej, Ornn). There is currently nothing in his kit that rewards him for building tank and I wouldn't mind seeing at least one of his spell's scalings changed to help with this. He currently does it only so that he doesn't explode, not because his kit has any synergy with defensive itemization.

I enjoy playing him as a tank and it simply doesn't feel rewarding past mid-game, which is largely due to his scaling being all over the place and counter-intuitive.

Pyrath1 votes

There is currently nothing in his kit that rewards him for building tank.

I think that's just a narrow-minded assumption. His shield scales with health, so the bigger the pool, the larger the shield. Also being able to stack health infinitely makes buying resistances much more rewarding. His kit literally SCREAMS "Build me tank so you get to do the things I was designed to do consistently." for me, and it's important to give players more room to experiment with. (mediocre AP scaling)

Pyrath1 votes

Sorry, tl;dr version for me was "Sion's kit is too predictable in every case possible in the game" and I have to disagree with it. Sion has one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game, and his fantasy dictates that they have to be slumbering and super-telegraphed.

His Q can be used as a slowing cleave, dealing damage fast after an auto attack. Pretty reliable damage if you know you're gonna have hard time hitting someone mobile.

W has huge range which was the thing with old Sion's default AP build. Still, very telegraphed but reliable in trades (block some damage, detonate and disengage)

E is both effective and fun to use. With top Sion, I usually just max E for the lulz to deal with pesky Gnars and what not. My poke game rivals that of Jayce's in the immediate early game. E poke is more than what you'd expect out of a character like Sion.

Ult is hard to use in most situations, but it's not necessarily always about running in a straight line into a champion at max range. You already have hard time getting up close to most of the line up, so most of the time it's good to just charge into the enemy lines without trying to always get the optimal effect out of it.

You've got to understand that Sion was designed this way to stay true to the Noxian Zombie-Brute thematic. Someone has to be the slowest and most predictable, and I can't think of a better candidate than good ol' Sion.

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