Rant: Malzahar is the poster child of failed reworks

iTaLenTZ··120 votes·22,139 views

Yes I am still very mad. I have over 500K mastery points on him and haven't played him in ages. Malzahar's rework: The story of a champ who hardly got touched in 5 years with buffs or nerfs got his identity absolutely destroyed by an arrogant, know it all better devteam who went their own way ignoring every bit of common sense.

Of all the reworks during all the years League exists Malzahar is the worst rework ever. Everything that could go wrong went wrong. I still remember very well how during the first rework Repertoir catered towards the few people who played him as a gimmick as ad-jungler. He only listened and engaged in conversations with them and pretty much ignored every other post or comment from every main. Ironically he can't even jungle now. Then he got nerfed, minireworked, more nerfs, more nerfs to a point he was pidgeonholed as a stunbot support because literaly everything else got taken away from his kit. In the meantime in full denial Meddler stated several times how happy they were with Malz rework and how much of a more healhty, balanced and interacive champ he had become. Eventually they had to recognize there were some problems because of PROPLAY otherwise we would still be stuck with support Malz. Another rework to his abilities followed which cemented him even more as a press R bot and farmbot in lane. After several more nerfs he is now in a unacceptable unplayble state. He is unfun to play and unfun to play against.

How much longer are you going to stay in denial? How much resources have you already wasted on Malzahar? How much resources are you gonna keep wasting on him before accepting failure? How much longer are you going to ignore that his reworks have been an utter failure?

From a diverse champ with several viable builds and playstyles and enough counterplay you turned him into:

  • Added obnoxious passive that removed the counterplay
  • Added RNG: Put all his damage in frustrating unreliable AI controlled voidlings
  • Removed the minigame that involved keeping track of your spells to trigger his passive
  • Removed his ability to jungle and build AD
  • Removed his dualer/assasin playstyle
  • Removed his level 6 kill potential so he has no reason to fight or try to invade enemy jungle
  • Removed his teamfight presence with his Pool
  • Removed his anti-tank mage identity
  • Removed his ability to poke with his abilities. High mana, low damage.
  • Removed his ability to harass: Lowered AA range and lowered MS
  • Removed the voidlings going berserk
  • Removed voidlings to be able to block skillshots when spawning
  • Removed everything that differentiated a good Malz from a bad Malz player. You just farm and scale up to become a secondary stunbot support for your adc.
  • Last you ruined every skin with his passive because of the purple glow. Also I liked the cape with runes a lot more than the atrocity he is now.

He lost everything and gained nothing but a toxic passive. Malzahar is now the most uninteractive unfun midlaner to play and play against. All he can do is try to farm the lane by pressing E+W and sit back and watch and you can't blame him for it. When he hits 6 he waits until the jungler shows up because on his own he gets nothing done. If the jungler comes he flashes+R, if not he keeps pressing E+W. It is super boring, repetetive and predictable.

Malzahar was never a skirmisher sustained damage mage. He doesn't have the low cooldowns, the reliable damage, the mobility and kiting to fight off attackers, he doesn't heal, he doesn't have the range. He is not Cassio nor Vladimir nor Viktor.

Stop being in denial. First of all nobody wants the passive. Reall nobody. Not the mains, not the opponents. Nobody wants to be relegated to a stunbot. The most fun of picking Malzahar was his kill potential at lv 6. Trying to trade with your opponent for a lv 6 all-in. Sequencing your spells correctly to trigger voidlings and controlling the wave or preparing an all-in or for taking drake or tanking a turret. Same for waiting for a voidling to turn berserk for that extra damage early game. You could build him as a glasscannon to neutralize 1 opponent or build him as a anti-tank champ. You could play him jungle as AD or AP champ. After 3 years of failure and alienating everyone who used to love Malzahar the time has come for a complete revert.

TLDR: Sorry for the rant. Nothing new everything about Malz has already been said in multiple good and ignored posts from many (used to be) mains and frustrated opponents. Riot stop being in denial. His rework is a failure and will always be a failure so stop wasting resources on him. It is time to revert Malzahar.

169 Comments

PhearBunny55 votes

cough Mordekaiser.

Get Ogre Here42 votes

Cough Ryze Cough

iTaLenTZ14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Get Ogre Here,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I8AvEvOJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-11T23:23:12.957+0000)

Cough Ryze Cough

Ryze failed because of other reasons. His main problem is that he his either useless or completely broken in soloQ. Meanwhile he can have a 40% winrate in soloQ and in pro play still be 100% pick or ban. Ask Faker.

SwiftKitten887 votes

{quoted}

Ryze failed because of other reasons. His main problem is that he his either useless or completely broken in soloQ. Meanwhile he can have a 40% winrate in soloQ and in pro play still be 100% pick or ban. Ask Faker.

which is the definition of a failed rework.. you cant have a winrate game of more than 5% on any champ between high elo and low elo... and be considered "ok"

MrHaZeYo1 votes

I'm sorry and Malz isn't like that?

SweedishGunner7 votes

Yeah he doesn't have a 44% winrate in soloQ.

Theorex4 votes

Failed Multiple times?

No Malzahar didn't fail on release.

He was perfectly fine with his old kit. The problem was the everyone in the community didn't know how to build QSS.

Back then QSS wrecked malzahar. It not only got arid of his R. But his E, ignite, Silence, and R. Meaning that if a good malzahar actually played correctly and did a E Q W Ignite R. QSS got arid of E, Silence from Q, R and Ignite.

BUT NO. Guess what the community does isn't of building QSS. They bitched about it.

Just like they did with Zed. Look at how he was back then. QSS for an ADC made zed useless. Same with Zhonya's. The community bitched about it on Zed as well. Now look at him.

There are some things that the community doesn't understand and somethings that the community will always push blame on.

So no. Malzahar didn't fail when he was released. The community just failed to have a brain. Thats what truly failed.

Z3Sleeper15 votes

Ryze failed MULTIPLE TIMES!!! In fact his next rework is coming soon.

Gamer Gallade20 votes

Mordekaiser Mordekaiser Mordekaiser Mordekaiser Mordekaiser Hue hue hue hue hue.

Over Innsmouth4 votes

Ryze at least gets the dignity of looking and sounding pretty great now, Malz still looks like a stiff purple turd.

Rico Nasty27 votes

item 3070 Malzahar Mordekaiser Ryze Karma item 3070

DeusVult8 votes

IMO, karma isnt as bad as the other three

Karma mains definitely dont like her as much as the old Karma, but the rework turned into into a poke mage with a niche rather than a champ that had a little strength in every category with strange play patterns that didnt lend to her enemies understanding what happened. (ie nuking shield when at low health)

Ryze morde and Malz are all reworks that served no real point and didnt seek to address any issues other than to simply create new ones

iTaLenTZ9 votes

By any means I am not saying Mordekaiser Heimerdinger Garen Skarner Ryze or basically insert any champ that has been reworked the past 3 years especially those in large scale class updates is a good rework whatsoever. I know Ryze, Mord are poster childs of failed reworks. I am just saying Malzahar is one as well. That is not the topic, the topic is Malzahar's current state after the failed reworks and several nerfs and being pidgeonholed into a stunbot who gets nothing done by himself.

Also I am not asking for buffs because obviously I know the inherent problems of his current kit. Then we would just go back to square one and solve nothing.

Baval5 votes

Yo leave Heimer out of it his rework was awesome

Mael Jade3 votes

Outside of his passive which is like whatever. I liked the changes that made him involve a bit more skill and reliability on landing that W and E but his passive is just an uninteractive failure

Baval1 votes

I have to disagree. His old passive was really uninteractive and was really only useful in the laning phase to make him impossible to push against and occasional late game to make sieges last longer (and helped if you were picking him as support but that was pretty trolly). Its ability to heal himself was moved into his base Hp5 so wasnt lost, while his new passive gives him kiting around his turrets which was the entirety of his old playstyle and gives interactions like placing turrets for the sole purpose of engaging or escaping faster (such as placing turrets in a row in lane rather that the triangle of power) , which are in turn counterplayed by the second he takes to place them giving a hit in close pursuits or of course destroying his turret to slow him down.

It looks like a really simple passive but actually has interesting case uses when you play him.

Mael Jade3 votes

It´s just that "be near it and get movement speed" might aswell be a passive on his Q instead of taking his whole passive slot. The amount of stuff we have in passives today compared to the early days of the game: Look at Mundo. Then look at Jhin :D there is just a lot of room for improvement

SociopathFriend8 votes

He is unfun to play and unfun to play against.

As opposed to pre-rework, where he was still unfun to play against.

The rework succeeded in area though- Malzahar now requires more skill to get off his full damage. Prior to his rework you pretty much could not mess up 3/4 of his abilities.

Was the rework a 'failure'? Debatable. Is he more toxic than before the rework? No. There was more counterplay added to going against him besides, "Don't be in range" and now Malz has to put actual effort into landing his full damage combo.

I like Malz, but the three main reasons people like playing him (visions, voidlings, nether grasp) are all inherently low counterplay abilities and he's not going to be in a good place while all 3 are prevalent in his kit.

Thegreatxiu10 votes

{quoted}

No. There was more counterplay added to going against him besides, "Don't be in range" and now Malz has to put actual effort into landing his full damage combo.

I hate when people act like counterplay is relegated to "mechanics" there is something to be said about macro play. Malz used to be a macro play oriented champion like Pantheon, but now he doesn't have the mechanics to be a micro oriented champ or the design/numbers to be a macro oriented champ.

Also his "full damage combo" doesn't take anymore skill. It actually lowered the skill to putting out damage with Malz by moving all of his damage to his W. Pre-rework he'd have to actually place his Q and W properly while now you can basically ignore his Q and E.

Spank the Fox3 votes

Lol what, are you being completely obtuse about how his current Q and E interact with each other?

I won’t deny his previous Q and E were stronger individually, but the refresh mechanics and low CD of his Q spell (that gained more DPS if you start counting from the 2nd-3rd Q compared to pre-rework) was to make his brainless E shove counterable. The way his Q refreshes his E is an interesting mechanic and ignoring that is ignoring his potential with W. All his basic abilities tie together well, the only problem is his identity isn’t a DPS mage.

This is the problem with Malzahar and the revert bitching; none of you guys actually understand his kit at all. He’s only trash because Riot wanted him to stop being a QSS check and more proactive. It’s the new-Malz trash passive that needs to go.

DW Diana8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I8AvEvOJ,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-05-12T09:09:21.920+0000)

Lol what, are you being completely obtuse about how his current Q and E interact with each other?

I won’t deny his previous Q and E were stronger individually, but the refresh mechanics and low CD of his Q spell (that gained more DPS if you start counting from the 2nd-3rd Q compared to pre-rework) was to make his brainless E shove counterable. The way his Q refreshes his E is an interesting mechanic and ignoring that is ignoring his potential with W. All his basic abilities tie together well, the only problem is his identity isn’t a DPS mage.

An interesting point. Here's a couple of things to consider:

  1. Malefic Visions is used to clear waves because: It increased the damage of your voidlings to a point where they are worthwhile, restores mana based on your max mana pool, is a minor poke if the enemy gets too close.
  2. Malefic Visions actually does very little damage, and therefore needs to be subsidized by damage from the voidlings to actually wave clear and gain the above benefits.
  3. Voidlings are 1 shotable by almost every ability in the game, and also by aa.
  4. Call of the Void costs a large amount of mana and doesn't do much damage therefore cannot be used reliably for waveclear until much later in the game.

This is the problem with Malzahar and the revert bitching; none of you guys actually understand his kit at all. He’s only trash because Riot wanted him to stop being a QSS check and more proactive. It’s the new-Malz trash passive that needs to go.

His passive needs changing, his voidlings need a buff (both to damage and tankiness), his damage needs increasing in the earlier levels.

Malzahar was meant to be an anti-engage AP CARRY, not a flash ult bot/late game poke. a full rework or a full revert is the only real way I can see for him to be viable in the role he was MEANT to play.

Stupafly8 votes

Honestly i agree with you. While i am no malz main, he was one of my favored mids for the longest time. I havent touched him in a while now.

The passive needs to go as you said, it can be overwhelming(not so much since his nerfs) as an opponent to face a banshees every creep wave. It also creates un interactive gameplay for malz

warmcorntortilla7 votes

We will probably never get Malzahar back. I wish they'd go through all these reworks with the mindset of 'some of these worked, some of them didn't' and start reverting the ones that didn't really work. I wanted to like new Malzahar, and I was kind of okay with him being a support stun bot (it was fun and mean to cheese adcs, and the insta-voidling summoning was actually pretty decent against skillshot lanes like Thresh and Morg)

but mostly I miss old Malz. The pool removal was the worst aspect of his new kit. Those voidlings... oh, how I hate them. I used to think they were cute! Not anymore. WHO wanted this? I don't understand why some mains get their old champions back (god I missed LeBlanc so much, I'm so glad they reverted her) and some of us don't.

I want my main back! I STILL have more mastery points on Malzahar than any other champion and I, like OP, hardly play him anymore. I hate new Malzahar. PLEASE RIOT give us our void mage back. :(

The worst, most frustrating part is I picked him up because I didn't know how to play into Zed and Yasuo and Katarina and the like, and I looked for a champion I could take mid that could deal with that cancer. Now, Malzahar is just as bad, if not worse, into those champions than any other mid mage, but at least if I go 0/10/0 on Lux I can still shield and snare. WHY would you EVER pick him? In what situation is he a good choice? He's not even good on Twisted Treeline anymore! TWISTED TREELINE, RIOT. HE'S NOT EVEN GOOD THERE.

Infernape6 votes

-cough- Shen -cough-

-cough- Leblanc -cough-

-cough- Rengar -cough-

Jamaree6 votes

{quoted}

-cough- Shen -cough-

-cough- Leblanc -cough-

-cough- Rengar -cough-

What is wrong with Shen, his play rate, win rate, and tourney rate went up?

Infernape3 votes

His theme is utter dog shit. They gave him the spirit sword for no apparent reason. Not to mention Riot cannot balance him for both pro play and casual play.

RainXBlade6 votes

I want old Malz back tbh. At least with him, he can actually do something on his own rather than w8 for level 6 and jungler, then kill laner.

SweedishGunner1 votes

He can still solo kill the enemy laner, just takes a bit of time and spreading a few Malific Visions to them.

RainXBlade3 votes

Smart players will know how to avoid the space AIDS getting unto them from the creep wave though. Trying to apply the E yourself without using the creep wave to pass it already puts you at the risk of being all-in'ed by the enemy laner and/or jungler.

Dorans Pants6 votes

Malzahar: I fundamentally disagree with virtually everything you decided about my character.

Riot: It doesn´t matter what the mains want, we only have to think about what champion WE want to make.

but seriously:

remove this awful passive and this stupid reliance on rng crabs. Nothing feels better than knowing that the majority of your dmg lies in an ability you have no agency over. I don´t even like the new splashart.

DW Diana4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dorans Pants,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I8AvEvOJ,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-05-12T11:32:07.163+0000)

Malzahar: I fundamentally disagree with virtually everything you decided about my character.

Riot: It doesn´t matter what the mains want, we only have to think about what champion WE want to make.

but seriously:

remove this awful passive and this stupid reliance on rng crabs. Nothing feels better than knowing that the majority of your dmg lies in an ability you have no agency over. I don´t even like the new splashart.

Ok I like the energy but a couple of things to point out:

  1. Those crabs do fuck all damage. They USED to do damage (both pre and post 2016 rework) but now they don't.
  2. The passive is a bit pointless now that banshee's exists with a better passive effect (which malzahar can't really benefit from because of his passive >.<)
ProjecL1 votes

His W still deals fuck ton of damage, it's just not completely braindead broken right now. It's funny that you bring up pre rework voidlings because back then his passive was actually kind of useless outside of shoving lanes because it was just 1 voidling that took something like 12 seconds before it actually started attacking fast.

And you can stack his passive with Banshee. In fact it's miles more efficient with 2 spell shields instead of 1. Just like for example old Duskblade was twice as strong on Zed because you essentially had 2 ults or how 2 Zhonya's on someone like Lissandra is good.

Beacon Academy3 votes

{quoted}

It's funny that you bring up pre rework voidlings because back then his passive was actually kind of useless outside of shoving lanes because it was just 1 voidling that took something like 12 seconds before it actually started attacking fast.

You fukin wot m8?

Old Voidlings take more than one hit to die and were worth 12 gold.

Enemy laners would rather spend their mana/AA on minions that granted more gold.

After 7 seconds Voidlings would grow into adult-hood with a 50% increase to damage and armor.

When nearing the 14 second mark, Malzahar would find a way to bounce/cast E on the enemy laner.

They could also direct the Voidling with an AA (Which he cannot do now)

Once the Voidling heads towards the laner and E gets on them, it hits the 14s mark and goes into a frenzy.

The enemy laner now has a Voidling with 50% increase in armor/damage and 100% increase in AS chasing them

They won't be able to kill it in one hit and therefore get chased from lane all because actual Malzahar mains were able to time something over a 13-14s period.

If anything could chunk half their HP at level 1-2, it was that strategy.

Useless my ass...

And you can stack his passive with Banshee. In fact it's miles more efficient with 2 spell shields instead of 1. Just like for example old Duskblade was twice as strong on Zed because you essentially had 2 ults or how 2 Zhonya's on someone like Lissandra is good.

As far as I know both can be popped at the same time

Malzahar's shield negates CC and 90% damage.

The remaining 10% gets negated by the Banshee's

Thegreatxiu5 votes

I have to say that the new crabs is what frustrates me the most about new Malzahar. I quit maining Malzahar a while ago, but I'd still enjoy a game or two with him every now and then, but now his playstyle is different. It doesn't just add an RNG factor with crab targeting; it completely changes how to Malzahar in a way that really showcases the difference between older designs and the newer designs. Instead of distributing power across Malzahar's skills so that you have to hit a full combo to have kill potential in the early-mid game they made him have one major damage spell so the most efficient thing is just to W then ult. Malzahar felt really good pre-rework because, at least in the early-mid game, when you 100-0'd someone it was either a pick or just good play; it was not just hit one spell and hope. What makes new Malzahar boring, IMO, is what makes Zoe boring. The entire game starts to revolve around a single spell and making sure it hits.

5050BS5 votes

I want AD Jungle Malz back >:(

Enderspider5 votes

I like what they did with his e resetting on q hit, but thats basically all positivity i have about the rework

Tormentula4 votes

Skarner

Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votes

I just don't get why Malzahar was just changed SO MUCH when SO LITTLE needed to be in the first place. I won't lie, I didn't LOVE the original Malzahar. He DID feels uninteractive to fight midlane (Jungle Malz was different though, I liked that). But why they had to completely poop on every aspect of his kit, instead of just swapping his original Passive and W and leaving it at that has always been beyond me.

Ryze exists as an example of Riot's stubborness (Took them 6 reworks to FINALLY get rid of the point-Click Root)

Morde exists as the biggest example of Riot doing something for no reason. He needed a full rework 5 years ago, and still does now. Why they even included him back then was beyond me.

Karma exists as the poster child of "Stuff Riot never finished" Her rework was half-baked and remains so to this day.

Coronet3 votes

I actually think his passive necessary for his mid-range battle mage playstyle.

Notice all battle mages have some kind of build in defense (Viktor, Ryze, Swain).

I strongly disagree it "removed the counterplay". That's not true at all. If it was, Malz wouldn't be countered by nearly all of the assasins, Swain, and so on.

This nostalgia that "before rework, he was better" is entirely misguided. Before rework, he was a binary champion that was all but non-viable in high elo, his playbase was minor at best and he was completely unviable in pro play.

With the rework, he actually became a champion with some depth and gradually found his way into both pro-play and high elos.

What makes him problematic, and it's what I've been bringing up couple of months and even tweeted at Meddler and Repertoir is, how significant of an ability is W Void Swarm is.

After his last wave of nerfs, it is practially the main source of both waveclear and combat power and I absolutely agree with you that has to change. His W was the source of those Support Malz shanenigans and it's overall a very dull and completely uninteresting ability.

In my opinion it would be best for the champion if his W got removed, replaced with his old W Null Zone, the damage from the voidlings would be spread into the rest of his kit and his R would surpress only if the enemy champion was affected by E or standing in W, otherwise it would slow.

This would allow the champion to gain combat power in exchange for reliability, which I think is (after reading this thread) what we would all like.

We don't like being Ult Bots for our junglers and ADCs. We like to carry.

SpongebobIsLife3 votes

c..countered by assassins? You have it wrong there bucko.

Coronet2 votes

Before you turn to invectives, get your fact straight, cowboy:

http://champion.gg/champion/Malzahar/Middle?league=

Malzahar has 48% or lower win rate against (amongts others) Talon, Zed and Ahri and below 50% win rate against Ekko and Katarina.

The common knowledge that Malz counters Assasins might have been true four months ago, but not anymore.

Before you go "bucko" on somebody, maybe you should do some research first, before repeating old cliches...

Beacon Academy3 votes

Are you fucking...

Its like you didn't even know what old Malzahar was!

He was a counter for assassins for

#SIX YEARS UNTIL PATCH 6.9 WHEN HE WENT FROM ANTI-ASSASSIN TO DIVE-PROOF

{quoted}

Before you go "bucko" on somebody, maybe you should do some research first, before repeating old cliches...

Lord Phazanor 3 votes

Cries in Mordekaiser.

Christ Superstar3 votes

Everything you said, I agree with - however, Riot, the denial company, will never revert Malzahar... I fucking loathe Repertoir for this rework, more so because he refuses to acknowledge its shit.

Leto GT3 votes

I miss old malzahar. Malz was my favorite champion back then. I've barely touched it since his work because it's an utter disgrace. I'm afraid they go for my amumu now. I hope they won't "rework" him.

P0IS0N IVY3 votes

The mid season mage update was just a shitshow tbh. I think with the exception of Vel'koz and Veigar, all the other champs have had a list of issues.

Godlzahar3 votes

I write on this forum first time in my life in years to say only this..

REVERT MALZAHAR riot, or buff him.. Or delete him because he is weak and unfun now. No point.

Just do something about this champion.

Risen293 votes

Malz was actually fun before the machine gun of nerfs started to shred him apart.

It was fun to manage the wave and voidlings in a way that built up a big wave of them.

It was fun to set up the enemy with your R and let the pool damage or voidlings kill them.

I don't know if it was balanced, but it sure was fun.

Now he's so boring. Limited voidlings. No power. No interaction. No fun to them. Weak R.

A shadow of his former self.

PowerSlave9932 votes

Amumu item 3070

SpecterVonBaren11 votes

Amumu is almost exactly the same as he's been for years. The only thing they've changed was his passive.

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