Zoe is Officially Unplayable

Perma CC·Feb 23, 2018·7 votes·2,003 views

Honestly Riot when overboard on the nerfs to her to the point where she is unplayable... she actually does no damage. Never have kill pressure with her at any stage in the game because she doesnt have a kill combo. You can only poke with her and ks people.... I think this was the wrong direction for her. I wanted her nerfed but this is too much.... if she is ognna do no damage then her sleep needs to have cooldown reduction added back. BEcause atm all she is useful for is sleeping people and even that is hard at such a high cooldown.

28 Comments

KhristophorosFeb 23, 20187 votes

Good riddance

Spicy RiceFeb 23, 20187 votes

She does have a kill combo, its just that you actually need to hit your target dead on, instead of hitting targets near them

Malix FarwinFeb 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I54aLkLa,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-02-23T03:10:57.433+0000)

She does have a kill combo, its just that you actually need to hit your target dead on, instead of hitting targets near them

Nah it doesnt kill anymore even with 900 ap as long as they have some mr.

However damage in itself isnt her biggest problem right now is the wave clear to mana usage ratio.

Spicy RiceFeb 23, 20181 votes

Zoe's full combo, excluding the damage from w, is 912 + 1.93x.

At 900 ap, that is 2649.

To put that in perspective, the champion with the highest base hp at level 18, galio, has 2466 hp

and excluding Gnar and Kled for obvious reasons, the champion with the lowest base hp, janna, has 1690 hp

Perma CCFeb 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I54aLkLa,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-02-23T03:10:57.433+0000)

She does have a kill combo, its just that you actually need to hit your target dead on, instead of hitting targets near them

Accept for the fact that she isnt a burst mage anymore... Because they nerfed the Q. Nerfing her push power is fine but they need to pick between the burst or the wave clear. Becasue atm she has no wave clear as a weakness for having burst but also doesnt have burst now.... so she is a walking ball of useless atm. Would be better played as a support when she doesnt have good wave management or ap ratios.

Spicy RiceFeb 23, 20181 votes

With the current values, assuming she hits everything (except w) zoe does about 100 less damage at 400 ap than a full annie combo (excluding tibbers autos)

ŚhunpoFeb 23, 20185 votes

Good, now she takes an actual brain to play and she won't one shot you even if she's 0/5.

You'll be rewarded if you master her and punished if you try to abuse her for freelo.

ApochenMar 9, 20181 votes

You have to have be horrible at the game to die to a 0/5 zoe. She also is really easy to counter even if you have half a brain

ŚhunpoMar 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You have to have be horrible at the game to die to a 0/5 zoe. She also is really easy to counter even if you have half a brain

Nah, my teammate still clapped a Caitlyn as a 0/5 Zoe.

HayaishiFeb 23, 20185 votes

And nothing of value was lost.

DracocrashFeb 23, 20184 votes

good

Kai GuyFeb 23, 20183 votes

They tried doing it in a reasonable slowly measured way. One that gave time for players to adapt, to learn counterplay, and to stop standing there and takeing long range Q to the face. well, Look at how well the community reacted. Expect to see them over nerf then rebuff more often now.

Attticus FinchFeb 23, 20183 votes

Good. Hopefully I never see her in a match again until they rework her.

Get Ogre HereFeb 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Attticus Finch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I54aLkLa,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-02-23T03:37:04.786+0000)

Good. Hopefully I never see her in a match again until they rework her.

Don't hold your breath... Lmao

leakinbFeb 23, 20182 votes

Zoe is just like Yasuo Riven You can't make her too good, or else the really good players will dominate the game using her

Malix FarwinFeb 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

is just like You can't make her too good, or else the really good players will dominate the game using her

The thing is about Zoe is she wasn't overpowered and she wasn't just hyper dominating at any elo. There were several Mid laners beating her. The Problem with Zoe is she had the pre-reworked Nidalee problem where a lot of her damage was baked into 1 ability that was a ranged attack. People banned nidalee back then for the exact same reason really. The difference of course is that they properly shifted nidalee's damage elsewhere while still giving her okay way cleave.

Zoe right now has the nerfed Q and she easily goes oom while trying to keep minions from pushing her tower and fails at both now. Thats her current problem right now.

Spicy RiceFeb 23, 20183 votes

She's a burst mage, who has a low cd burst. It's almost common sense that she shouldn't be good at pushing.

KVbqbFsC8eFeb 23, 20181 votes

Were you watching any professional games? She was dominant in both LCS and LCK.

Malix FarwinFeb 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I54aLkLa,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2018-02-23T03:17:42.376+0000)

Were you watching any professional games? She was dominant in both LCS and LCK.

Pro play and soloq are a completely different universe, things that are broken in pro play arent in soloq because it works a lot differently. With that being said i did say the nerfs were warranted but they definitely overshot the Q by around 5%-10% and they didn't compensate enough in other areas. They could of moved a bit more dmg into P, W, and E. Also if they wanted you to be more reliant on max range Qs they should of shrunk the distance requirement a bit. As it stands a max range Q hardly does more than a Syndra or Annie Q.

KVbqbFsC8eFeb 23, 20181 votes

Its pretty ridiculous to say something isn't overpowered when it is dominant at the highest level of play. And Zoe isn't a champion that requires any teamwork. Seeing it continuously one shot people in LCS and LCK doesn't make it any less overpowered.

Malix FarwinFeb 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I54aLkLa,comment-id=00060000000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T03:43:04.489+0000)

Its pretty ridiculous to say something isn't overpowered when it is dominant at the highest level of play. And Zoe isn't a champion that requires any teamwork. Seeing it continuously one shot people in LCS and LCK doesn't make it any less overpowered.

You clearly are not listening so could you please leave. Zoe got nerfed why are u here if thats all you care about. What i care about is making her viable in a health way and i already explained in great detail what her issue is and so have the Devs.

KVbqbFsC8eFeb 23, 20181 votes

Ok my bad. I'm sure you, as a Silver 3 Zoe player know that she was not overpowered. All those pro players were wrong. Got it.

FOR JUSTICEFeb 23, 20181 votes

Ryze

They are the professionals though. They make anything work.

KVbqbFsC8eFeb 23, 20181 votes

Thats why I specifically said Zoe is not team reliant.

chipndip1Feb 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I54aLkLa,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2018-02-23T03:17:42.376+0000)

Were you watching any professional games? She was dominant in both LCS and LCK.

I saw her lose quite a few times in pro games.

I saw her win some, too.

I don't think she hyper dominant in the pro scene as far as I could tell. She was annoying, and she was the only burst mage that really burst key targets well in the late game, so there's a solid reason to pick her, but I don't think she was a balancing issue, though.

PeachyPosteriorFeb 23, 20181 votes

They wanted to over nerf her rather than under nerf her. And they did just that. I'm really hoping next patch they can give her CC and some damage back.

Malix FarwinFeb 23, 20181 votes

This is merely testing my faith as a Zoe main. I still am somehow doing okay and winning games with her but i feel less like a carry and more like a second support though. At least they stopped banning her i suppose and they also stopped picking her lol. she is i suppose barely playable(then again anything is in my elo ) but you definitely couldn't call her a burst mage right now.

Malix FarwinFeb 23, 20181 votes

Overall most of the stuff were really good nerfs the Q was just hit at least 10% too hard. Then of course theres the ap itemization change so getting power takes longer now on top of all that.