Shyvana has dropped below 2.5% play rate in jungle

PapaGreg21·Jun 27, 2016·37 votes·3,208 views

At this point I am actively hoping she gets to 1% overall so somebody addresses the fact that she has been overnerfed because of Devourer and nobody has fixed her kit to a good level since then.

84 Comments

MunchCrunchLunchJun 27, 201611 votes

she is literally one of the easiest champions to kite in the game. she has an ms boost but its quite pathetic and not enough. she needs just a tiny bit of cc. just one slow.

i mean cmon darius has infinitely more cc than she does and she isn't the kind of juggernaut darius is.

i see shyvanna like nasus. their base stats. and base ability damages. aren't that of juggernauts. they have to farm and get items and outscale to get anywhere in the game. at least nasus has one of the best slows in the game.

shyvanna can be kited by melee champions that have a slow or something they just need to give her a slow somewhere.

SpoofghoulJun 27, 20168 votes

item 3022 item 3116 both work well

also there is item 3143 item 3742 which can also slow

people are just stuck in their minds building whatever amount of on hit items they can grab and then realize but i can't get to anyone

shyvana has good damage and aoe clear in her kit already first thing you might want to fix is her sticking power when playing her

and her movespeed boost is far from pathetic i think the issue is more with carries getting ludicrous amounts of movespeed from items these days as nearly every full damage item has some sort of %boost on it

HateDaddyJun 27, 20167 votes

{quoted}

both work well

also there is which can also slow

people are just stuck in their minds building whatever amount of on hit items they can grab and then realize but i can't get to anyone

shyvana has good damage and aoe clear in her kit already first thing you might want to fix is her sticking power when playing her

and her movespeed boost is far from pathetic i think the issue is more with carries getting ludicrous amounts of movespeed from items these days as nearly every full damage item has some sort of %boost on it

She's good at dealing with being kited and if she gets on top of you, she murders you.

As much as I hate her, I do think the fact they nerfed her because of sated devourer and then removed the item is silly. Either revert her nerfs or buff her in some other way, you shouldn't nerf a champ because of an item then delete the item with no compensation.

R FLASH XDJun 28, 20161 votes

If she gets on top of you it's more brutal than when Rengar jumped on Draven in the A New Dawn cinematic

Theiki KayleJun 28, 20161 votes

Jarvan likes Shyvana getting on top of him though.

[insert appropriate Mr. Bean picture here]

R FLASH XDJun 28, 20161 votes

I think any man would like some grill on top of him

MunchCrunchLunchJun 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

both work well

also there is which can also slow

people are just stuck in their minds building whatever amount of on hit items they can grab and then realize but i can't get to anyone

shyvana has good damage and aoe clear in her kit already first thing you might want to fix is her sticking power when playing her

and her movespeed boost is far from pathetic i think the issue is more with carries getting ludicrous amounts of movespeed from items these days as nearly every full damage item has some sort of %boost on it

shes still easy to kite. GETTING to the backline without losing all my health is the hard part. her ultimate is buggy as hell doesn't work sometimes.

why wouldn't you play volibear that can do similar damage to squishies. is tankier. and has a lot more cc and is much harder to kite. i mean you can't really kite volibear with a regular adc's range unless you have an ashe or a caitlyn. he will just rip your head off

PapaGreg21Jun 28, 20166 votes

Shyvana actually has pretty poor damage in her kit right now. Her burnout damage and twin bite damage have both been nerfed over the last year and her trading is so bad that her win rate top is like 38 percent for the few people that still play it. Plus BOTRK is in one of its weakest states.

TotalJerkJun 28, 20161 votes

It really wouldn't hurt for her to get a slow or something. She has no mobility or utility save for her ult and the speedup on W would be nice if the cooldown wasn't so massive.

She doesn't even have a numbers problem, her kit is just pretty shit. Basically the only reason she was meta before is because she had good numbers.

LordForrestJun 28, 20161 votes

Well, going cdr tank is what i use to do last season. 40% cdr and a full Burnout duration only had like 1.5 sec downtime. Sadly with the mastery and item changes in this season it made it fairly difficult for a manaless mixed damage character to get there without some serious compromise. She was pretty gnarly as that because you just basically sat in the middle of the team dishing out constant amounts of aoe damage. Couple that with a item 3153 and her e and she was pretty good at melting tanks too.

So basically the main problem is that people have such a hard on for the sated on-hit build that they can't play her any other way. Though i wouldn't be adverse to some number or kit tweaking. Mainly just want a less wonky way to max cdr on her.

TotalJerkJun 28, 20161 votes

The problem is that she is probably the lowest utility and least tanky juggernaut in the game. All she does is damage, so as it currently stands she's only strong when she does a fuckton of it.

LordForrestJun 28, 20161 votes

One at the moment she isn't really in the Juggernaut class, since she wasn't included in the update.

Two, She has more utility then Morde and depending on the build and situation is tankier then he is. I would say tankier all the way, but if you go full on-hit, then a good morde using his shield would be tankier.

I know this is going to sound hypocritical, because i just said she wasn't, but if she does get tacked into the juggernaut class, damage and beef is all they do. So not really seeing your point there.

And whats the problem with just doing damage for a fighter? As a fighter her tankyness and damage, particularly her AOE output, is what generates her threat. If you ignore her she his going to kill you or burn you down enough that its easier for others to do so.

On the case of her being only good when she does a fuckton of damage, maybe try a different build? Like a said even with sated last season i preferred a cdr tank build, i had way more success with it. Sated was fun as a gimmick, but i had more success not using it.

for example items to consider, item 3068 item 3022 item 3091 . Sunfire adds to her aoe damage, mallet gives her a useful slow, and wits gives her a plethora of goodies she wants. Those are items i want to have on shyv, problem being that cdr is so strong on her and the lack of good options for her makes it hard to actually fit these items and the cdr you need together. You can do it several different ways, but none that feel good or natural. Whether because the build becomes too expensive, lacks flow, uses sub-optimal items, or sacrifices stats, it just feels bad.

YumaS2AstralJun 28, 20161 votes

I wouldn't say Shyvana has more utility than Mordekaiser. Don't understimate the utility of a ghost, especially if it is the ghost of an enemy ADC. Also, Morde has a lot more synergy with Rylai than Shyvana and is likely to always build this item, giving him tons of slows for his team especially if he uses his W.

LordForrestJun 28, 20161 votes

I am not underestimating the ghost, but that doesn't always constitute utility. Usually its a straight damage boost to your team's output. Also i was referring to base, not with items. Morde has nothing, but damage and a situational movespeed boost/heal. Shy has a built in movespeed boost, a knockback on her ult, and the ability to quickly build stacks for stacking items/mastery (i.e item 3091 item 3715 item 3071 item 3124 and the fervor mastery. So while they both don't have much utility, shy edges morde out, especially with her E's on-hit letting her still be relevant against tanky champs if she is behind.

Also unless you plan on going wizard lizard, Frozen mallet would be a much better choice for a slow item on shy.

Pierce The VealJun 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It really wouldn't hurt for her to get a slow or something. She has no mobility or utility save for her ult and the speedup on W would be nice if the cooldown wasn't so massive.

She doesn't even have a numbers problem, her kit is just pretty shit. Basically the only reason she was meta before is because she had good numbers.

Yeah her kit has 0 outplay potential. That is, she literally can't outplay people with her kit, but it would be easy for others to outplay her.

Sire HippingtonJun 28, 20161 votes

i don't think she needs cc. What she needs is anti cc. Her ult should finaly work like all other ult gapcloser and ignore cc. Fixing all the buggs related to it should aslo help. Also, her ult should give 10/20/30% tenacity, beeing a dragon should mean something...

Linna ExcelJun 27, 201610 votes

Her top lane also needs a buff.

PapaGreg21Jun 27, 20164 votes

It's just a dead position at this point. It's like saying Bard adc needs a buff. Unfortunately I think she's going to be relegated to the bench for a while because of her time with Devourer being so prosperous until the meta has rotated long enough that it's her time to be looked at again.

TotalJerkJun 28, 20161 votes

sion support

Just checked champion.gg. What the fuck? When did this start happening?

ArkatraJun 28, 20161 votes

Since they buffed her E. I have seen 3 of them in a week. Before may one in 3 months.

TotalJerkJun 28, 20161 votes

I replied to the wrong comment.

NipSlipOnMyTipJun 27, 201610 votes

And? Nunu, Panth, Rammus all have lower pick rates as well. And they use to be very very viable picks a few patches ago. The problem with Shyv is that she is too much like Kassadin. You buff her and she becomes a straight monster and is autobanned/picked in every game. Or she sucks and is barely played. I just think she needs a slight rework to change that and make her a more rounded, better fitting champ.

ParoeJun 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And? Nunu, Panth, Rammus all have lower pick rates as well. And they use to be very very viable picks a few patches ago. The problem with Shyv is that she is too much like Kassadin. You buff her and she becomes a straight monster and is autobanned/picked in every game. Or she sucks and is barely played. I just think she needs a slight rework to change that and make her a more rounded, better fitting champ.

that really worked with kassadin, huh?

NipSlipOnMyTipJun 28, 20161 votes

It did for the first week after they changed his Q from silence to no silence. People thought he was dead but he was still a superb mid pick for a while until riot gutted him again.

Like I said; If you buff Shyv she is a demon god cause she has insane stick potential and if she wants you dead; you will die.

But like kassadin; who I was suprised didn't get a change in the mage rework, they both need some sort of fix to change their current state to either dead in the mud or insanely overpowered.

ParoeJun 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It did for the first week after they changed his Q from silence to no silence. People thought he was dead but he was still a superb mid pick for a while until riot gutted him again.

Like I said; If you buff Shyv she is a demon god cause she has insane stick potential and if she wants you dead; you will die.

But like kassadin; who I was suprised didn't get a change in the mage rework, they both need some sort of fix to change their current state to either dead in the mud or insanely overpowered.

kass needs his ult removed with something similar but less generally powerful. the ability to ignore terrain is a good idea in that regard.

Illâoi Evê SiônJun 27, 20166 votes

Doesn't she outscale most other attack based champions in the game? (Like Jax and Yi and co.) It might just be that she doesn't fit into the current meta.

MunchCrunchLunchJun 28, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't she outscale most other attack based champions in the game? (Like Jax and Yi and co.) It might just be that she doesn't fit into the current meta.

no she doesn't outscale jax or yi. both jax and yi shred the living life out of her. she can beat yi early game if she maxes her death circle (w). but after a while yi just shreds her with true damage. and she doesn't outtdamage jax and she doesn't really have a way to get out of his stun range or you know slow him that she ignores the part where his E is up. he has more single target damage. shes good when the enemy team clumps up and she dumpsters them with her W and empowered ult abilities that do aoe damage

the question is. she scales ok but she doesn't outscale many as champs. the only ones i can think of that she scales are nocturne (hell everyone outscales noct) and aatrox and irelia.

she is a heavy counter to health stacking tanks. for example i'd play her top if am going against a mundo because am tanky enough to take his damage and he can't really sustain my %health damage.

again she has no cc. her base damage is ok but its nothing impressive. she doesn't scale that well with attack speed as much as on hit damage because of her Q. thats why devoure was good on hit because every Q is 120 magic damage.

Sire HippingtonJun 28, 20161 votes

You got that dead wrong, she** get's outscaled** ny most other attack based champs. The only thing she's good at is clearing the jungle, which leads to a gold+xp lead ealy-midgame which alows her to be strong purely by haveing a higher level and more items duering that period. Once you reached 18 and the opponents catch up, she starts falling of, and once opponents catch up in gear, she's prettymuch usless. At same level+gold, she's weaker than nearly any other champ.

She's very similar to nida, which is another champ that once worked well as laner and is now jungle only because all that makes her strong is how damn fast she clears that jungle.

SpoofghoulJun 27, 20165 votes

just looked up sions playrate

its even lower with 0.3 jungle and 0.45 support and 1.95% toplane

so don't get your hope up hes not been looked at ever since rework unless it was to kick him in the nuts and let him rot just like before the rework

Shrek LuigiJun 27, 20164 votes

I'm perfectly OK with the champion who only has to clear camps and cover lanes until she powerspikes and steamrolls the other team being underplayed/low WR. She was oppressive at her high-points, and there wasn't a lot to be done against her should she get a gold-lead or be allowed to farm the jungle unchecked--which made her nightmarishly difficult to deal with when I was learning to play because counterjungling and proper map-awareness are massively undervalued in lower-tier games. Games should be decided by skill, not by how much %hp damage your team has to take down the one tryhard meatshield who can effortlessly break your frontline and execute your squishes.

SwiftKitten88Jun 28, 20163 votes

Nidalee has dropped to 0% play rate in top, mid, and support

don't expect riot to care about our mains

PB4UAMEJun 28, 20166 votes

This was intentional though. They gutted her laning in virtually all forms to shoe-horn her into a broken, difficult to balance mess of a jungler because "muh-thematics."

AbyssphereJun 28, 20161 votes

And Shyvans wasn't shoved into the jungle on purpose? There's a reason they buffed her by giving her bonus damage to monsters last season.

PB4UAMEJun 30, 20161 votes

No, she wasn't shoved into the jungle. Rather, she was designed to be a top laner and counter jungler, and had far more success as the later. As such, the community slowly drifted into mostly playing her as such. RIOT balanced and tweaked her around this.

HaloDragonXJun 27, 20162 votes

Riot said they'd closely watch devourer junglers who were nerfed because of devourer after it's removal. Meanwhile Yi, WW, Shyvana, and even Kayle (Yes she was nerfed, 5 AD BOYS and I want it back.), all devourer junglers, who were nerfed due to it and not buffed at all.

JafarThePandaJun 27, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Riot said they'd closely watch devourer junglers who were nerfed because of devourer after it's removal. Meanwhile Yi, WW, Shyvana, and even Kayle (Yes she was nerfed, 5 AD BOYS and I want it back.), all devourer junglers, who were nerfed due to it and not buffed at all.

yi has been buffed and its a nuisance. read patch notes

AbyssphereJun 28, 20161 votes

Yi, Jax and Xin all got buffs. Kayle is not getting buffs because her non-jungle roles are still strong and Warwick isn't getting buffs because he never got nerfed for Sated.

Only Shyvana feels left out.

HaloDragonXJun 28, 20161 votes

Xin got buffed? You mean base stats? Lol, that's nothing really, that's a top lane buff.

Warwick is a farm jungler, removing sated is a huge nerf. Kayle was nerfed and reverting that nerf barely helps her laning, but very much helps her jungling. It's 5 AD

GULAG 4 UJun 28, 20161 votes

Ehm y teh fak u forget aatrox pls

Yosuke ApperuJun 28, 20162 votes

2.5% play rate out of how man champions? nunu at a .58% play rate

Slamurai JackJun 28, 20162 votes

Once people catch on and start building item 3078 on her, then her winrate will rise. Rapidly. Valkrin has already figured it out. And for the love of god, drop the item 3153 . That shit isn't worth it anymore.

This is what you want. Shyvana item 1416 item 3078 item 3748 item 3111 item 3143 item 3091

Theiki KayleJun 29, 20161 votes

Agreed, stop building item 3153 .

About that build, I'd sell the Bloodrazor lategame for Wit's End and rush a Frozen Mallet as first or second item. The stick potential of Frozen Mallet is pretty good, and that HP works really well.

Slamurai JackJun 29, 20161 votes

If the game goes on late enough that you can sell your jungle item for a different item, you're probably screwed regardless of what you buy. Shyv's window has already more than closed by that point.

Theiki KayleJun 29, 20161 votes

I agree, but I prefer Frozen Mallet over Wit's End as an early item, but I still like Wit's End, so I like taking it if I don't need Bloodrazor.

The Bearded BardJun 28, 20162 votes

Idk why they thought giving her AP ratios was any kind of compensation. Alls it did was make me want to try out full AP Shyv, which didn't work.

ArthimetesJun 28, 20161 votes

Strange, it's like Everyone at rito took a tanky Jungler that was Ultimately overtuned solely due to An item, Nerfed that jungler, then removed said Item that was the problem in the first place...

Have I heard this somewhere before?