Rengar's ult gives him too much potential pressure on the map

Omiwom··28 votes·1,920 views

With assassins growing in popularity, Rengar is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Could his big oneshot combo's damage potential be nerfed? Of course, but that won't solve his true problem. It will just make him useless. The massive burst is what makes playing Rengar fun. As someone with over 100k Rengar mastery points, here is my analysis of his true issue:

If one team has a Rengar with at least half a brain, you can ward all you want, but the other team's squishies cannot leave their ally's sides without the threat of instant death, even if Rengar is on the opposite side of the map. He doesn't need to play the map correctly to gain this pressure. It only requires him to have the stats (items) capable of destroying a squishy. This is unhealthy for the game and can be fixed with one small change:

When Rengar uses his ultimate, it makes a global sound for all players to hear.

28 Comments

xShiNjiNx11 votes

Yeah and i have about 350k mastery points on rengar between my 2 accounts.. Whats your point? I dont think Rengar would be much of a hunter if he told all his prey he was coming now would he? The problem isn't rengar, its peoples inability to adapt to the game, or play around other champions strengths. If someone is frustrated about X champ, instead of learning how to deal with it, they come to the boards and cry for nerfs because they are too lazy to actually learn the game. I can tell you from experience, that rengar becomes harder the higher in elo you get. I'm not saying hes still not strong, i wont deny that. But in my games vs plat 3 players, the difficulty to actually assassinate someone (given mechanics and most importantly positioning) became WAAAAY harder than it was through high silver low gold.

Picking people off is what rengar does. He doesn't tank unless built that way, he doesn't siege well, or even defend vs one well. And me most certainly cannot 1 shot someone unless he has items to do so. So if you are going around feeding a rengar, thats your fault, any assassin could take advantage of that gold and just as easily blow you up.

Chaotic Reks2 votes

so fair when he goes invis and snares you mid leap

A Miss Fortune3 votes

People generally dislike that even in teamfights Rengar is more than capable of bursting you down in 1/10th of a second. Unless you have reflexes above what any human is even capable of, he's going to kill you if he gets fed. Or you just get lucky and Zhonya's at the right moment.

It's like Leblanc, she clearly has well defined weaknesses but her combo just has so little counterplay. You can't dodge it and you certainly aren't going to burst her down before she bursts you down. Rengar is very similar to her in this case, both have minimum counterplay to their combos that makes them extremely toxic and unfair to fight.

And can I also say that Rengar doesn't fall off that hard in higher elo like some other assassins such as Zed. Rengar has a fair amount of utility for him being an assassin that easily can burst you down in 1/10th of a second. Utility is something that isn't as favorable in lower elo (Lulu is literally freelo in higher elo but medicore in low elo) however in higher elo people can really show you how powerful something like Rengar's 80% slow or 2 second snare is. That and Rengar gets a ton of free tank stats AND a heal. Don't even get me started on how his ultimate isn't even used as an initiator/engaging tool most of the time and half the time I'll just see a Rengar use it as the most cheap escape ever.

FastAsHeck1 votes

its just annoying to be dead in 0.01 seconds before you can even react, its not his damage and burst that is annoying its just the fact that you need <5 ping and LCS reactions to be able to defend against it even when you actually have the means to do so like having bought a item 3157 or being Ekko with ult up.

BluePolarizer1 votes

Rengar has a high win rate in plat+. There's a reason he has a high win rate in plat+ as even a jungler, which is a lower gold role than mid or AD, yet he has the ability to buy high cost damage items involving even BF sword which junglers in high elo traditionally don't touch.

Even diamonds and challengers have trouble with Rengar because his counterplay (pink ward totem) was removed. I am plat 1/2 and Rengar is extremely strong because if he gets ahead in any way (even if 2/3 of his lanes are feeding; he only needs 1 strong lane) he can turn the game simply by forcing people to stay away from farming or die.

Tolna6 votes

I don't know. I've fought and played as him a lot and I just don't see his OP'ness, hes kinda bad if ya ask me.

He kills one guy or nearly kills em, then dies or has to run.

Theres nothing really unique to Rengar, Shaco can catch me out and wtfboom me as an ADC, So can every other assasin. And most of the not Rengar ones can get out alive during a teamfight too!

To me Rengar is broken in that he does his job so well that hed be OP if he could escape but since he can't hes UP at the same time. But I just don't see why people go on about him being this instoppable god of death...when he just really isn't IMO.

Maybe I've just never seen a Diamond+ level Rengar main or fought one. I just don't see the OP'ness of rengar.

Omiwom2 votes

{quoted}

I don't know. I've fought and played as him a lot and I just don't see his OP'ness, hes kinda bad if ya ask me.

He kills one guy or nearly kills em, then dies or has to run.

Theres nothing really unique to Rengar, Shaco can catch me out and wtfboom me as an ADC, So can every other assasin. And most of the not Rengar ones can get out alive during a teamfight too!

To me Rengar is broken in that he does his job so well that hed be OP if he could escape but since he can't hes UP at the same time. But I just don't see why people go on about him being this instoppable god of death...when he just really isn't IMO.

Maybe I've just never seen a Diamond+ level Rengar main or fought one. I just don't see the OP'ness of rengar.

Rengar is tricky if you don't know how to play him, but once you get past the learning curve he's much too powerful. He doesn't team fight well but he prevents anyone from ever going into the side lanes or overextending in the slightest, even if they've warded properly. He also has a large ms buff after he breaks ult stealth, which actually helps a great deal for escaping, or even moving onto another target if you're fed.

Troiann4 votes

He has a really high skill ceiling. His ult, although it can be a cheap escape, has literally all his power thrown into it. It's his only tool of engagement and if he doesn't have it he's one of the most useless things to have on your team.

It's true that a lot of high elo players pick rengar to onetrick pony. It's also why a lot of people ban rengar in high elo. He's really fucking strong with the removal of the pink ward trinket (retarded decision on riot's part). The thing is on boards people cry about anti fun. Anti fun is completely subjective. I can list for you all the champs I have at one point yelled at my computer was bullshit, toxic, anti fun:

Every champion except Aatrox and Yasuo. Yes, at one point i even called vel koz and urgot and galio bullshit.

And that's what this board does. It just rattles off "toxic anti fun" champions and waits for people to agree. The circlejerk gets larger and larger and inevitably half the threads you will find in this board will be whining about said champion. Most of these champions aren't OP.

Dreadlocks4 votes

And the worst part is, they usually just do it for upvotes lol.

terkmc1 votes

Compared to other assassin, he just has the fastest, most front loaded and heavy wtfboom of all, and that's what make him strong. You will only very barely see him coming, and then you are dead, healing wont save you from the nuking power, and teammate very rarely react fast enough to stop the wtfboom. And his low CD q in conjunction with ult ferocity generation means that unlike other assassins who goes in, blows the load and either die or has to flee, Rengar can stay, since his Emp Q give a ton of attack speed and AD, his Q CD really fast means his dps is also high. Rengar does not have an escape, true, but he very much has the tool to stay in there like a pseudo adc with attack speed, Q spam and his W, which if he's jumping into a clumped group, can reach staggering amount of resistance for an assassin, allowing him to only not wtfboom one person, but goes on to savagely rip apart the nearest ally too

BluePolarizer1 votes

I'm high plat, fluctuating between plat 1 and 2. My games are against plat 1/2 and diamond 5's. Note that Rengar has a 51% win rate in plat+ so it is obvious that he's not bad.

It's not what Rengar does in a teamfight. It's what he does outside a teamfight. Assume that they are not limited by bad mechanics. I'm not saying that low diamonds have perfect mechanics, but they have competent mechanics.

  1. If you are playing a squishy or are behind in any way, you cannot farm alone without risking dying. Against other assassins, this is usually "you cannot farm alone without wards". This includes Shaco.

  2. His ult gives true sight in a huge radius so you can't secretly farm your jungle. This means that if you are either behind and trying to catch up, or you're carrying your team as a squishy backliner and need all the gold you can get, you risk dying and your team collapsing because of it. Note that you have no idea if Rengar sees you or not and you have no idea where he is since his true sight radius is way bigger than the extent of wards; he can see you at red from his mid tower.

  3. His only counterplay was deleted in 5.22 and his win rate skyrocketed accordingly.

Hayaishi24 votes

Gut him into oblivion until he gets AN ACTUAL REWORK!

Slamurai Jack2 votes

This would literally make him the worst champion in the game.

xxxMadLionxxx1 votes

That's a good idea, but i still hate how he can eat you alive in 0.01 seconds

Teemo or Feedmo1 votes

it also gives him SUPRISE BUTTSEX potential

DrProfVibeCheck1 votes

From a lore standpoint, making a loud sound anyone can hear when you are hunting stuff is kinda counterintuitive.

BUT, hearing a bad ass quote roared into the air like:

"THE HUNT IS ON"

would be pretty cool.

Maybe it doesn't have to be Rengo yelling? Maybe like tribal drums should play

Llanite1 votes

~50% players play without headphones FYI.

Most people just aren't fortunate enough to forget the world and devote into the game.

DrProfVibeCheck1 votes

Play with earphones, one ear free. That's how I play and I got parents.

terkmc1 votes

"Its only fun when they run" :3

Maligaro Spike1 votes

i'd shift some Q damage into E, btw since a lot of his burst is on autos i think that even when he will get nerfs he will still be strong because of synergy with crits,atk spd and trinity's passive unlike kha who uses a spell as main damage and so he can't make use of crits aswell as rengar

SolusInCadere1 votes

In my experience playing against a lot of Rengar players, and playing him a few times here and there, I agree. The thing is, his power budget is all eaten up with his ultimate. His other abilities are either another way to empower ult (Q), or are just 'there' like his E. Rengar is literally just his ultimate.

Edit: this is obviously not a good thing

LOL Spammer1 votes

Blitzcrank

GenghisEmo1 votes

i dont think the ult is the main issue... i think it is his passive. Which when fed, guy blows you up in 0.03 seconds.

So what should be done?

Nerf is not the solution, the real fix is to actually rework him.

Problem with the rework, we are talking about Riot, so they will give him an overloaded kit with yet another weird passive that leads to the same exact problem. XD

Bears Dont Care1 votes

I think its unfair that an assassin can assassinate from stealth. Let's nerf Evelynn though.

LadyRenly1 votes

it also has a 1,000 second cooldown

originary911 votes

Rengar just ulted? Lemme just hug turret for the next 7 seconds. Whew, great, now I can go aggressive for the next two minutes without worries! Ho to destroy Jungle Rengar 101.

Zedex1 votes

I hate the knife cat, but this would make him useless. Then we'd have to queue in the mass threads of Rengar fans who can't play him properly anymore. No thanks.

My problem is the fact that he has 3 abilities to choose from to empower and its usually only ever Bola. The same problem heal tank Rengo had, his empowered heal was abused. Its the same scenario as transform champions. They abuse a single ability (in the lane) to get an unfair advantage, and then use their free execute stats to finish you off.

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