Why Do Players Only Want To Fight Without Regard To Events On The Map?

Best Ekko NA··5 votes·4,802 views

Huge pet peeve that I constantly notice. Up to Silver now, mostly trying to play the map (which doesn't always work out well but w.e). When I'm shoving a lane, my team won't shove the other two lanes (especially the one farthest from me). My teammates are constantly looking for a fight -- either following me, or going off into the Jungle somewhere for a full on 5v4, meanwhile we have two lanes that aren't pushing. This usually results in disaster probably 90% of the time, and what am I supposed to do about it? I'm always getting the blame for not being there for fights that should usually never have been started.

The past, well really who knows how many games? I don't actually know, but my Jungler never helps Top, and the enemy Jungler is ALWAYS camping me. The enemy Hecarim must have came Top at least 5 times in a row at one point after he took maybe his 3rd blue? I finally get caught and died, and it's my fault apparently for not being able to sustain my health after getting ganked several times in a row in succession and dying. Is this seriously the meta we are in? How can the enemy Jungle live in my lane all game, but my Jungle cannot gank a single lane in the first 10 minutes? What are you supposed to do? I can't understand how you are supposed to be able to deal with it.

Feeding Bottom lane, feeding Middle lane, AFK Jungle who does not gank any lanes, heavily camped Top who literally can't do anything and starts feeding as well... what can you do? It's my fault by the way, because I'm not god and I can't magically 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1v5 the enemy team and kill all of their towers while my team walks around in the Jungle trying to find the enemies, meanwhile completely ignoring the lanes which are pushing into our towers. Fuck man. They rage at me and call me bad when I don't group for their fights, like really? How can I be expected to move all the way across the map for a fight somewhere in the Jungle when we have no pushing creeps? Am I supposed to follow my team around and not farm, and somehow magically be capable of getting a penta kill against the enemy team every single time my team feels like charging in with no vision of who is there?

What is the answer? Maybe I am playing wrong and they are right, but I seriously don't see how what they expect from me is supposed to achieve anything.

7 Comments

Fizzfood3 votes

Your average KP in a game is well under 30%. It's at 20% or less regularly. That's bad.

That means you're basically just using TP to get back to your lane or you are showing up insanely late when you do use it offensively and you aren't roaming like you should be when you have opportunities to.

You're the type who watches your jungle get camped repeatedly on your teams side of the map but never actively crosses to help.

You're the type that watches your team lose a 4v5 and decides the clear solution is to split push like a bot all game.

Not saying you don't get bad team mates regularly because I'm sure you do. But I guarantee there is a ton of work you can do on your end to improve your top laning.

Did the team take a bad fight 4v5? Sure. Would the outcome have been effected if you were there? Probably.

If 80% of the team is grouped playing together and you're the 20% most the time it's better to actually go along with it. Win a fight then ping actionable objectives you are close to.

Winning lane means nothing with 12%KP on fights and an L on your record.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

Your average KP in a game is well under 30%. It's at 20% or less regularly. That's bad.

That means you're basically just using TP to get back to your lane or you are showing up insanely late when you do use it offensively and you aren't roaming like you should be when you have opportunities to.

You're the type who watches your jungle get camped repeatedly on your teams side of the map but never actively crosses to help.

You're the type that watches your team lose a 4v5 and decides the clear solution is to split push like a bot all game.

Not saying you don't get bad team mates regularly because I'm sure you do. But I guarantee there is a ton of work you can do on your end to improve your top laning.

Did the team take a bad fight 4v5? Sure. Would the outcome have been effected if you were there? Probably.

If 80% of the team is grouped playing together and you're the 20% most the time it's better to actually go along with it. Win a fight then ping actionable objectives you are close to.

Winning lane means nothing with 12%KP on fights and an L on your record.

I have low kill participation because I cannot usually solo multiple enemies that are present in my lane. I don't see any reason to teleport elsewhere when I'm the one getting camped. This is where I'm starting to wonder the most, because somehow my other 2 lanes are losing without being ganked by the enemy Jungle. This is not to say the enemy Jungle never visits the other lanes, but usually it only occurs after their lanes have some insurmountable leads and it's really easy for their Jungle to just waltz down there without risk and pick up some kills or the tower. My outer tower is the last one standing in every single game, but you are suggesting I should Teleport elsewhere on the map without any certainty that I'm going to get something out of it? All this while knowing that my tower is going to fall the instant that happens because the enemy Jungle is always going to be on that side of the map? Don't take this as me disagreeing, I am just asking if this is what you are saying I should do.

I'm open to what you are saying, but I am uncertain how what you are saying is actually going to work. In my years of experience, I have a feeling I'm going to roam Mid or use my Teleport bottom and either die, waste my time doing nothing, and end up losing my tower. Ultimately giving myself a much more difficult time since now I'll have to overextend to farm when I'm already getting the shit camped out of me. I can definitely try what you are saying, but you are going to need to give me some better explanation as to what I'm actually supposed to accomplish.

I get that my Kill Participation is low, but you also need to understand that when I'm playing Ekko, he's mostly a split pushing type of champion. Ekko can 3 hit towers with only Protobelt, Lich Bane, Death Cap, and the purple elixir. It's a big enough threat that if all 3 lanes are shoving, I can always get a tower or inhibitor before dying 100% of the time. Thus in my head (and maybe it's foolish logic) when I have vision of the enemy team, I'd rather continue shoving up to a tower when they aren't close to me as opposed to leaving and walking back towards my team. Most of the time, fights happen way too fast and someone (or even my whole team) dies instantly. Personally, I feel like I could potentially walk back to help them, but if everyone dies before I get there, I'm going to end up dead or standing around doing nothing while the enemy team takes our towers. Teleporting is not an option almost ever, because it's low ELO and nobody wards and we rarely have minions nearby that I can teleport too. This is why when you look at my match history, I have low kill participation. Three matches ago, I even won a 4v5 (our support was AFK almost the entire match) because they decided to fight our team near our base 5v3 (and they killed all 3 of my teammates), but I wiped their entire base and nexus before they could even recall.

At any rate, this isn't to make excuses, I'm looking for some advice, but I wanted to explain my perspective (since you decided to bag on me pretty hard). I do believe there are many ways that I can improve, or else I wouldn't even bother asking other players for some help. What you are saying isn't always an easy decision however, and if you could give me some better understanding of how I'm supposed to accomplish what you're saying to do differently (AKA when I should be grouping with my team), I'd be grateful.

Fizzfood1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbow Slayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hr84fGkz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-07T04:22:29.092+0000)

I have low kill participation because I cannot usually solo multiple enemies that are present in my lane. I don't see any reason to teleport elsewhere when I'm the one getting camped. This is where I'm starting to wonder the most, because somehow my other 2 lanes are losing without being ganked by the enemy Jungle. This is not to say the enemy Jungle never visits the other lanes, but usually it only occurs after their lanes have some insurmountable leads and it's really easy for their Jungle to just waltz down there without risk and pick up some kills or the tower. My outer tower is the last one standing in every single game, but you are suggesting I should Teleport elsewhere on the map without any certainty that I'm going to get something out of it? All this while knowing that my tower is going to fall the instant that happens because the enemy Jungle is always going to be on that side of the map? Don't take this as me disagreeing, I am just asking if this is what you are saying I should do.

I'm open to what you are saying, but I am uncertain how what you are saying is actually going to work. In my years of experience, I have a feeling I'm going to roam Mid or use my Teleport bottom and either die, waste my time doing nothing, and end up losing my tower. Ultimately giving myself a much more difficult time since now I'll have to overextend to farm when I'm already getting the shit camped out of me. I can definitely try what you are saying, but you are going to need to give me some better explanation as to what I'm actually supposed to accomplish.

I get that my Kill Participation is low, but you also need to understand that when I'm playing Ekko, he's mostly a split pushing type of champion. Ekko can 3 hit towers with only Protobelt, Lich Bane, Death Cap, and the purple elixir. It's a big enough threat that if all 3 lanes are shoving, I can always get a tower or inhibitor before dying 100% of the time. Thus in my head (and maybe it's foolish logic) when I have vision of the enemy team, I'd rather continue shoving up to a tower when they aren't close to me as opposed to leaving and walking back towards my team. Most of the time, fights happen way too fast and someone (or even my whole team) dies instantly. Personally, I feel like I could potentially walk back to help them, but if everyone dies before I get there, I'm going to end up dead or standing around doing nothing while the enemy team takes our towers. Teleporting is not an option almost ever, because it's low ELO and nobody wards and we rarely have minions nearby that I can teleport too. This is why when you look at my match history, I have low kill participation. Three matches ago, I even won a 4v5 (our support was AFK almost the entire match) because they decided to fight our team near our base 5v3 (and they killed all 3 of my teammates), but I wiped their entire base and nexus before they could even recall.

At any rate, this isn't to make excuses, I'm looking for some advice, but I wanted to explain my perspective (since you decided to bag on me pretty hard). I do believe there are many ways that I can improve, or else I wouldn't even bother asking other players for some help. What you are saying isn't always an easy decision however, and if you could give me some better understanding of how I'm supposed to accomplish what you're saying to do differently (AKA when I should be grouping with my team), I'd be grateful.

My advice is early game, to stay in your lane and win it. Make sure you are buying a pink or two to keep your own river warded in case scuttle goes to enemy team and make sure you're using your yellows effectively too. Also if your pink gets destroyed buy another! They are Invaluable and life saving especially in low ELO when warding is questionable at best.

This will give you plenty of notice if the enemy JG is coming.

If you see an opportunity to take a fight and help your team early, do not be afraid to offensively TP. Bott side bushes are great for that if there is a ward and enemy bott lane is shoving. Treat it like a gank. Pan down and check out what's going on once in a while. Ping and TP if it looks good. Don't waste TP on a fight that's engaged and lost that you are going to be late to. If they aren't placing a ward for you ask for one in chat and tell them why. Roam Mid if you have wave shoved on their tower if the Mid is overextended. Especially so if plates fall and you haven't taken tower yet.

If you your JG spots enemy JG at scuttler help him if you can. Usually it's a free kill. Keep your toplane opponent in mind too though, are you shoving in in him? Do you own river entrance? If so always cross down to help if you can. That scuttle crab benefits you 100× more than it does the Jungle.

Same goes for JG camps. If the enemy is bullying your JG early help him out if at all possible. If he's a champ that can solo kill early you might not need to but if he is a weak early Jungle you need to help them out if you can. If your JG is getting bullied in topside you should do your best to help him. You might lose a wave of CS for it but the 300g or flash burn is worth. If your mid follows up or his summs are already gone it's a guaranteed kill and he will play way more cautiously knowing he can't just get away with it.

Also when you clear your top tower you should have plenty of time to roam Mid or Bott. Play offensively. Come back to your lane to shove back the wave. Shove it passed river and go somewhere else. Help JG take Herald. TP to drag. Force in another tower. This is not a free pass to abandon lane forever though. You need to be keeping an eye on it consistently.

Make sure to group at certain points. There will be a point in the game where you should almost be grouping exclusively unless your team is severely behind and all waves are shived into you. Especially if your team is and you are ahead. Sometimes splitting is the right call. But most the time it's not unless enemy team is braindead. If the enemy team has any map awareness you should never 100 to 0 a tower off a split.

All of this is situational so keep that in mind as you adjust your lane style. Good luck out there!

radetari2 votes

it's nothing u can change or act upon it's that kind of the mental complexity of those players and the main reason why games are being thrown If I got 1 euro for every time I said Pls group and end while we can , I would own every skin in this game already

Samuel Murphy1 votes

Personally I prefer to play champions that will lose lane or at best go even but make a huge impact in team fights later. I don't mind if the enemy jungler ganks me 5 times and my teams jg never visits 1 time. i just play super safe but get less farm. (top main)

My issue is when the rest of my team is doing nothing with all the pressure I am absorbing. Jg shows top and bot does nothing with that info etc.

Glaricion1 votes

S9 does feel really coin flip atm. Glancing at your recent games, you are playing someone that (I think) has decent waveclear w/ teleport. If you aren't already, would suggest:

  1. Saving all but your first or second teleport to be used for ganks/joining teamfights (defending plates aside, of course)
  2. Deepwarding and getting control wards down to help you split, track jungler, set up rotations
  3. Making calls to farm lanes/when to get objectives (if they're camping you top, FREE DRAKES BABY!)

Won't always work, won't always listen, but will net you a few percentage points on your WR (though looks like you are climbing at a decent pace).

Curious Kat1 votes

Because Riot wanted to turn their game into fortnite, or call of duty, or some shit, and has forced the game into a TDM style where you just so happen to end up at objectives sometimes after team fights.

Truly feels like a battle royal at this point, kill kill kill kill kill, oo look, a "air drop" AKA< a fucking dragon with mountain buff! TAKE IT AND KEEP KILLING.

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