Riot Lyte is trying to tell us the majority of us prefer Dynamic Queue over Solo Q

lolptwo·Mar 16, 2016·500 votes·16,691 views

> When we polled players who were playing in dynamic queues the specific question: “I like that you are allowed to queue with any number of people to play ranked”, about 55% of players agreed, 20% were neutral, and 25% disagreed. We’re not saying this to sway opinions either way--it tells us the system is both polarizing, and broadly desired. We’ll check in on this statistic again next week.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/01/red-post-collection-hextech-crafting.html

Riot Lyte.

Riot Lyte, You are a psychology PHD...you may fool a lot of young kids here but what you just did there was something called **"Suggestive Questioning" **in Psychology.

You must know you are doing this, as a PHD in Psychology. A more proper polling question would of been. "Do you prefer Ranked Solo Q or Dynamic Q"

If you wanted a complete different answer try this. "I like being able to not play against teams of premade in ranked" and watch your polling numbers flip upside down.

Come on man, you can trick the majority of people but not me.

327 Comments

xVARIANTxMar 16, 2016101 votes

Whats even worse is there are a lot of players out there who think that the new champ select and dynamic queue are the same thing. That should inflate his numbers significantly.

Velzard of KozMar 16, 201610 votes

Also statistics. From all teachers, lectors and proffesors of math I've ever met including one directly working with this phenomenon, all of them dislike it as whole because of how easy it is to bend them the way you want. Same has been done here. He pulls up amount of people ignoring the amount of data behind it. Extra numbers like how long those players play the game, what modes they tried and so on might show up how biased it was. Only bend statistics beat another bend statistics.

Last but not least, the amount of asked people. If I asked five people, I could hardly talk about something being "broadly desired"

HexaDecimelMar 16, 201624 votes

The first thing we were told when learning Statistics is that there are Lies, there are damn Lies, and then there is Statistics.

NautodayMar 16, 201612 votes

{quoted}

The first thing we were told when learning Statistics is that there are Lies, there are damn Lies, and then there is Statistics.

LOL. I just got out of my Statistics class and my professor literally just said this at the end of class today. -----------------*he also said it the first day of class, but it's even better that he reiterated it today.

togapikaMar 16, 201676 votes

In the legal system it's called Leading the Witness, and it's not allowed in court...

Bard RockMar 16, 201613 votes

Correction: leading the witness is allowed in court in a few instances. The first and most common is in a cross examination. The second is in the case of a child witness. The third in the case of a hostile witness who is not cooperating.

HayRossMar 16, 201668 votes

To be fair, %98 of other people playing ranked are hostile children who are not co-operating

LordofEntropyMar 16, 201660 votes

Yeah, the question is obviously designed to get their desired response, that is supporting only dynamic queue. Also only polling those who are currently playing dynamic queue also skews results. How about polling those who have played ranked in the past, or newly eligible to play, but aren't currently. Likely to find results that show more support for a solo queue as there are likely folks avoiding it because of dynamic queue.

Rew711Mar 16, 20166 votes

The only reason I even try for the new Draft Mode (as I call it) is because of the chest system. Once it hits TT or ARAM, I'm not going back to SR. I'm just sticking with this game to collect all the champs. I'd been gone if it weren't for that. Spending two years (almost three) on here and playing thousands of games to only get 104 out of 140 of the champion pool. Only thing I hate the most is that it would be quicker to get the champs with SR right now. But, I'm tired of Blind Pick and really started to enjoy Team Builder. It hurts that every time I post something on it, people brush it off with "the new Dynamic Que is exactly like the old Team Builder, but better." Can someone please explain to me where in Team Builder you had to choose two roles in order to find a team. Or how you couldn't at least pick the champion you wanted before going into the game.

Am I saying its bad. Heck no, this is a far better Draft Pick. Do I like Draft Pick, no not really. It reminds me of those times I tried Ranked and kept being belittled over my lack in Runes, Mastery choices, build paths, champions I had, champion I picked, and on those rare occasions when I banned. I also hate being counter picked. At least in Blind, Team, and ARAM you don't have to look stupid when the enemy picks something that counters you hard.

I tried going top once. Enemy chose a Gnar. I chose a Teemo. At 5-7 minutes in, gank. By 20 minutes, 7 enemy ganks. I did ping for help, but it was my fault for feeding. Should had gone AP Teemo... but not sure if it would had stopped the damage Lee and Gnar kept dealing.

Zeal SeekerMar 16, 201631 votes

Why, why are they doing this to their players. I hate dynamic queue so much its not even funny.

Wolfbanez12Mar 16, 201628 votes

i agree the moment solo que comes back watch the numbers fall from dynamic que its a good idea but riot screwed it up hard

the Anarchit3chtMar 16, 201626 votes

I'm thoroughly convinced that Lyte went to Google University.

innermethodMar 16, 201626 votes

Question 1: Which do you like more, dynamic Q or poverty? Question 2: Would you prefer to A) use dynamic Q or B) fall off a cliff? Question 3: If you were given a million dollars to use dynamic Q, would you?

He was right! 100% agreed they prefer dynamic Q!

NørseMar 16, 20166 votes

The question could have been

"What do you like more Season 5 Solo Que, or Season 6 Dynamic queue."

I still would have answered Dynamic queue. Tri-queue is amazingly good/fun. The amount of AFK's/Trolls are down significantly. (At least in gold.) That and you can eliminate them all together if you really want to run Pre-made 5s.

FaceplowMar 16, 201622 votes

The part I enjoyed with his comments were when Riot got rid of "Team Builder" and kind of forcing those people who played TB into either the shit storm of Blind Pick or the lesser of two evils option kind of similar to TB, and then claimed what the true success of "Dynamic Queue" was with their record breaking inflated queues, matches, etc.

Anyone with half a brain, knows that "Dynamic Queue" was a baby step in the right direction for ranked, but overall was still a complete failure for the casual and low elo gamer.

If you really want to test your skills, then get rid of bans and let people queue up for their specific role.

Do people who play chess (comparing elo systems) get to ban which pieces their opponents can play with? Do they give them 2 options of play styles to chose from?

How can you tell someone they are only 1100 elo if they only get to play their main champ 15% of the time and desired role 40% of the time?

iainB85Mar 16, 201614 votes

You had me until get rid of bans.

Your chess example is poor. Chess is carefully balanced and what the pieces do never changes.

League of Legends is a constantly evolving game and Riot constantly over tunes specific champions, or items for a subset of champions.

Your scenario would turn to less skill in game, and more "skill" in champion select by just knowing what champions are currently too strong to give you that unfair advantage in game. No thanks.

Wahre GesichtMar 16, 201617 votes

Between not playing and play this line that is there. Of course, most will prefer the dynamic queue. Riot always worked with manipulation but is encroaching.

LordofEntropyMar 16, 201632 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wahre Gesicht,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HiL2aHMU,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-03-16T12:26:33.889+0000)

Between not playing and play this line that is there. Of course, most will prefer the dynamic queue. Riot always worked with manipulation but is encroaching.

Indeed, and it's funny Lyte says it's "broadly desired." When 45% of the response is either indifferent or opposed to the only option available, I'm not so sure that qualifies as "broadly desired."

It's like asking people who got a soda with their combo meal at McDonald's "I like that I'm allowed to select any Coke product with my combo meal." Then interpreting the answer as 55% of people who want a soda with their combo prefer Coke! When in reality it was the only option, many of those people might prefer Pepsi if it were available.

ThumpinMar 17, 201610 votes

I don't give a fuck if Lyte can find some people who prefer DQ for ranked. We were promised solo queue and this is one promise that I will hold Riot to.

Mäster YíMar 16, 20169 votes

Now hes gonna ban you for harassment. GG

CaptnJakSparrowMar 16, 20168 votes

I think dynamic is okay. But the problem is it's inconsistent and hots already proved the number should maximum be 3.

Dunkrius2gMar 17, 20168 votes

Why not have both solo q and dynamic q??

TheLegionofDarkMar 16, 20166 votes

Yea that's 100% a leading/suggestive question.

As OP originally said a better question would be the "Do you prefer ranked Solo Q or Dynamic Q". This is just polling for the sake of trying to show positive numbers for dynamic queue. I loved the comment of "We’re not saying this to sway opinions either way". The question was meant to sway pollers. This just seems mildly devious to me. Like they're trying to create numbers to validate Dynamic Queue or something. (which I honestly don't have much of an issue with, if they would just fix the stupid always getting support issue! lol)

Forn ala cremeMar 16, 20166 votes

I actually prefer Dynamic Queue, don't understand the hate tbh.

WolfenstinMar 16, 20168 votes

I think the problem is that Riot is cutting options unnecessarily so that the only remaining choice is Dynamic Queue and nothing else.

Only Play DariusMar 16, 20166 votes

Riot Lyte is in charge of player behavior, and he openly stated that premades reduce toxicity by 90% since they obviously aren't going to be toxic to each other. Why do you think Riot is pushing premades in everything from ranked dynamic queue to Hextexh crafting to clubs to party IP rewards (RIP double IP weekends)? Making everyone premade is the easy way to reduce toxicity even if it leaves out a bunch of players, unfortunately.

ForeverLaxxMar 16, 20168 votes

It's actually not even a surprise that this direction has been going "full steam ahead" the moment Ghostcrawler got hired, since he's gone on record more than once about how he ultimately disliked the Dungeon Finder tool in WoW because it made finding groups "too easy" and lessened the consequences of abandoning bad parties because you could just queue again 15 minutes later. He had a similar issue with the Raid Finder tool. GC just hates functional matchmaking because his belief is that a multiplayer game should be enjoyed with friends. Normally that'd be fine but there's a real issue with how he goes about "encouraging" that belief, and Riot is basically 100% on board with it since they manipulate polls and ask leading questions to get the responses they want to justify their decisions.

The problem is that GC and Riot are not above removing all the non-premade (or solo matchmaking) options so that the only way to play their game and still enjoy it is to build a team. They've convinced themselves that being allowed to queue solo in DQ should be seen as "good enough" by the playerbase and we should all be thankful that they've allowed even that much. Their amazement at the playerbase wanting traditional soloqueue back is a testament to this, as is all their spindoctoring and manipulation into trying to convince the players that DQ is what they should be doing instead.

There's a reason I've only been playing Aram since the mode was released. The standard League experience is a complete joke, and none of my friends even play League anymore (they got out a long time ago and constantly pester me to play Dota instead). Riot has made it clear time and time again that people like me, even though I own every skin and champion, aren't desirable for the long-term. Fortunately, Aram is still fun but it's only a matter of time before that mode gets the axe just like Dominion did, and at that point I'll have no choice but to suck DQ off with a big fat smile.

SettDownShutUpMar 16, 20166 votes

Just gonna pop in here and shout Team Builder at the top of my lungs.

TEEEAAMM BUIILDERRRR~!!!!

Hentai LewdsMar 16, 20166 votes

id rather stay 10 min in Q get my main role or sec and play .. not to waste 20 min with 2 junglers and zed supp because the last pick decided that to instalock :| TY RIOT FOR DYNAMIC Q !!!

Serika ZeroMar 16, 201610 votes

that's the new champ select, not dynamic q

dynamic q is only the ability to play from 1 up to 5man premade in ranked see, a lot of you don't even know the difference between dynamic q and the new champ select :(

YoureSquiddingMeMar 16, 20166 votes

Yeah, I sure do love 20 minute queue timers, getting my primary role 2/10 games, and being the odd man out with and against premades.

UnvictusMar 17, 20166 votes

Lyte is easily the most hated rioter, and for good reason. He's done stuff like this in the past. Saying stuff like "players feel this" when it's really only his opinion. Give us solo queue like you promised. You guys said you would give us solo queue now act on your word. Not everyone has friends to play with and by favoring dynamic queue you're saying screw you to all of us players who prefer to play alone and not premades. In your damn survey you asked why people didn't play ranked before, and you said it was cause they "didn't want to not play with their friends" well don't be surprised if you ask the same damn question next year when everyone says "I didn't play ranked cause you shafted the shit out of a majority of your player base who would rather play alone than with a group of people".

KilljoyXMar 16, 20165 votes

70% of the community is silver or lower. There is a much smaller issue when you are so low elo because you can pretty much always match 5 with 5 4/1 with 4/1 3/2 with 3/2 and so on. Plat, Diamond, and challenger can get matched 1/1/1/1/1 with 5 man premade in fact challengers streaming often have to go up against all of TSM or C9 or even immortals. How is that in any way fair? Or even at lower elo teams are often wildly unbalanced with 4/1s vs 2/1/1/1 or 3/1/1 making communication a joke.

Of course 55% of the community loves it over half the community is bronze!

It Hertz When IPMar 16, 201611 votes

Statistically speaking a change that benefits 70% or more of the playerbase is a better business decision. Just saying.

SpongebobIsLifeMar 16, 201610 votes

this^ People act like every single game they are that one person in a 4 man premade, or whatever premade scenario it is, when in reality, the chances of that happening to one person concistently is extremely low. Lyte was correct in that most people like the dynamic que in that for many people, it finally answered their prayers as far as reducing trolls and toxicity and allowing them to take the game more into their hands. Also, how many people did you poll? 100 maybe? That's not even the amount of people in NA Challenger. Your poll means little in comparison to the surveys riot poses.

GayFluffyUnicornMar 16, 20166 votes

It happens, all the time. the chance is not low, not here n EUW. Every second game i'm solos vs 3 premades. 2 premades+3 solos vs 3 premades + 2premades etc etc. I look up every game of mine on op.gg.

lil snupeMar 16, 20165 votes

Lyte is the worst thing to ever happen to riot tbh

6PFjoFgfQ5Mar 17, 20165 votes

Riot lyte..... literally the worst thing to ever happen to league of legends.... Riot headquarters could burn down tomorrow, them go into bankruptcy and lose all their designers .....Riot Lyte would STILL be the worst thing to happen to league of legends lol

KorilloMar 16, 20164 votes

We were promised solo queue and now he is trying to back out of it? No thank you, please give us our solo queue.

ForeverLaxxMar 16, 20166 votes

His arm had to be twisted to even offer the backhanded promise of the return of a soloqueue (as a solo-only queue). Riot never wanted to do it and now they're trying to fabricate data while stalling to justify a decision they've already made about not going through with the promise.

Welcome to Riot Games, a case study on what happens when a mostly independent game company gets too big for its britches.

NørseMar 16, 20164 votes

I personally hope it never comes back. Solo queue was toxic, feeding, shitty trash.

ForeverLaxxMar 16, 201611 votes

Really sounds like you were part of the problem.

Simple MoonMar 17, 20164 votes

I like being able to group with any amount of friends to run ranked. But there needs to be something different for when I want to go solo. Just makes sense to have both. They shouldn't be the same.

ff4skMar 17, 20164 votes

5v5 existed for the purpose of playing with your friends. why ruin solo q by forcing people into playing with/against groups?

Urgonnalearn2dayMar 17, 20164 votes

Riot Lyte knows what he's doing; his bosses don't. That question is highly unethical.

EVG MikeMar 17, 20164 votes

{quoted}

> When we polled players who were playing in dynamic queues the specific question: “I like that you are allowed to queue with any number of people to play ranked”, about 55% of players agreed, 20% were neutral, and 25% disagreed. We’re not saying this to sway opinions either way--it tells us the system is both polarizing, and broadly desired. We’ll check in on this statistic again next week.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/01/red-post-collection-hextech-crafting.html

Riot Lyte.

Riot Lyte, You are a psychology PHD...you may fool a lot of young kids here but what you just did there was something called **"Suggestive Questioning" **in Psychology.

You must know you are doing this, as a PHD in Psychology. A more proper polling question would of been. "Do you prefer Ranked Solo Q or Dynamic Q"

If you wanted a complete different answer try this. "I like being able to not play against teams of premade in ranked" and watch your polling numbers flip upside down.

Come on man, you can trick the majority of people but not me.

And now for a series of true or false questions to more accurately gauge the validity of this thread.

1: You enjoy playing with friends as opposed to strangers 2: 55% > 25% 3. /End Thread

In response to "suggestive questioning..."

Are you not smart enough to understand the question? What is confusing or misleading about "I like that you are allowed to queue with any number of people to play ranked..?"

Thanks for reading, just stopped by to blow your mind.

Speaking of toxic players, try posting something constructive instead of just blatantly trying to single out and flame one member of the team that works on the game that you CHOOSE to play. They actively listen to the ideas people pitch on the boards every day.

PS If I were a rioter I would smite this steaming dung pile of a post and put your account on chat restriction just for the attitude conveyed here.

ProsayoMar 17, 20166 votes

I'm pretty sure you just blew my mind, the same exact way Donald Trump voters blow my mind.

Polls are used for gathering statistics. What type of data would the question “I like that you are allowed to queue with any number of people to play ranked” gather?

The intent of the poll was supposed to figure out if the community likes the new queuing system, compared the older system that most MOBA's are using.

He used "suggestive questioning" which is a psychological way of pushing false statistics. Let me break this concept down even more to allow you to understand.

A company is selling grape flavored lollipops and decide to switch over to selling strawberry lollipops. They want to gather data to figure out whether their decision was the right one to make. What kind of question should be asked in their poll? Here are two examples:

"I like strawberry lollipops." Yes No

"I prefer strawberry lollipops over grape lollipops." Yes No

To gather accurate data, they should ask the second question rather than the first one. The first question is providing false data to what they're trying to prove. It is asking for their opinion on strawberry lollipops, but what data is that actually providing? It is giving data on whether or not people enjoy strawberry lollipops or not, but what are they supposed to compare it to? They don't have any data on the grape lollipops to decide whether or not it was a sound decision.

Going back to the League poll, do you understand what their poll is getting for data? People are obviously going to like allowing to queue with any number of people. That is basically a guarantee because the idea of queuing with any number of people is attractable. That doesn't necessarily mean that people prefer the new queue system over the older system. They are gathering false data to give false "facts" in the future. If they are going to use the community to figure out whether or not their updates are supported, then they should give appropriate questions without suggestive questioning or pushing the voters towards a certain direction.

[{quoted}](name=Disaster 41,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HiL2aHMU,comment-id=0070,timestamp=2016-03-17T06:37:33.689+0000)

And now for a series of true or false questions to more accurately gauge the validity of this thread.

1: You enjoy playing with friends as opposed to strangers 2: 55% > 25% 3. /End Thread

In response to "suggestive questioning..."

Are you not smart enough to understand the question? What is confusing or misleading about "I like that you are allowed to queue with any number of people to play ranked..?"

Thanks for reading, just stopped by to blow your mind.

Speaking of toxic players, try posting something constructive instead of just blatantly trying to single out and flame one member of the team that works on the game that you CHOOSE to play. They actively listen to the ideas people pitch on the boards every day.

PS If I were a rioter I would smite this steaming dung pile of a post and put your account on chat restriction just for the attitude conveyed here.