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Current Stormrazor will never work no matter how you buff it

Z3Sleeper··16 votes·7,709 views

######(Title should've been "no matter how the buff its stats" oops)

#Why it doesn't work

The damage from Energized does not stack from multiple items, so it only applies the highest amount of damage from your energized items to your Energized.

This is why, but that restriction is there for a reason (this reason item 3087 item 3094 ). In addition to this, the build paths of Energize items don't synergize with each other at all, since the highest damaging Energized effect will negate the damage coming from other Energized effects and thus invalidate the 900g Kircheis Shards you have to build.

But hey, it makes Statikk bounce to 7 targets instead of 5 and makes RFC range bonus go up to 185 from 150 AND it makes everyone hit by Statikk slowed by 40% for 1 second while increasing Statikk damage by 30%. That's good right?

No, no it's not. All that gold efficiency of the 2 other Energize damage effects? Gone for a minor buff to realistically only one of those Energize effects. Because you simply have no room for all 3 and rarely have room for 2 of them. If you're playing a Crit ADC, you WILL be getting IE since we're back to those days. So you're gonna have item 3006 item 3031 ( item 3087 and/or item 3094 ) (if we ignore PD and Runaans).

In this meta though, building a 2nd Zeal item after your core two items is suicide. GA and BT are basically mandatory. So that's 5 slots to boots, IE, Zeal item, GA and BT.

So now you have 5 slots filled, the game has been going on for 30 minutes. What do you build now?

item 3095 ? Or item 3139 for anti-cc/kiting/LS/MR, or item 3022 for kiting/survivability, or item 3036 /item 3033 for tank shredding/GW/overall DPS increase?

IMO, it won't be Storm. Ever.

Not even Twitch, the champion who can probably get the most out of the slowing Statikk effect & AoE damaage, will use this because for him, item 3153 and item 3085 are also mandatory.

#How I would change it

THAT ALL BEING SAID. I'm not just here to say it's garbage without providing a possible solution.

First off, making the damage stack at all is a huge no. We don't need the Energize burst meta back. But there's a way to make them synergize better without straight increasing burst damage. So instead, let's focus on making them more viable as DPS items (yknow, what this class is based on).

To do this, I think we gotta kill what makes RFC a little more special: the Energize rate increase. Here's how I think it should go down.

item 3094 Changed Passive: "Attacks become Energized 25% faster." changed to "Attacks become Energized 50% faster when moving."

item 3087 New Passive: "Attacks become Energized 50% faster when attacking." AS reduced to 35% (from 40% to compensate for this being a straight buff).

item 3095 New Passive: "Attacks become Energized 15% faster for each Energize effect you have." (Increases total Energize rate by +15% for each Energize effect you have (to include itself)).

So RFC is the long range attack one that synergizes with simply moving and attacking with its effect. Statikk is the one where you have to be close to use it and thus gets the on-attack buff (with a nerf to AS cuz that's a pretty big buff to the energize rate). And Storm is the IE of Energize effects so it increases the total rate. Simple!

Edit:

Considering a movement speed of 380 units per second (with normal tier 2 boots), moving energizes 12.5 charges per second, while an average attack speed of a normal level 18 champion who has ~1.2 attack speed with just Statikk Shiv energizes ~14.5 charges per second (given the average possible attacks to energize charges). Moving is roughly 15% slower.

Taken from the wiki.

390 MS is cleaner for the conversions so I'll be using that.

Here's the Energize rates with this suggestion:

Base Energize Rate: 12 per attack and 1 per 30 units traveled Current item 3094: 15 per attack and 1.25 per 30 units traveled (16.25/s at 390 MS) item 3094 increase: +0.5 per 30 units traveled (=> 1.5) item 3087 increase: +6 per attack (=> 18)

Format: Items: X charge per attack and X charge per 30 units traveled (charge per second of movement at 390 MS)

item 3094 + item 3087: 18 per attack and 1.5 per 30 units traveled (19.5/s) item 3095 (alone): 13.8 per attack and 1.15 per 30 units traveled (14.95/s) item 3095 + item 2015: 15.6 per attack and 1.3 per 30 units traveled (16.9/s) item 3095 + item 3094: 15.6 per attack and 1.95 per 30 units traveled (25.35/s) item 3095 + item 3094 + item 2015: 17.4 per attack and 2.175 per 30 units traveled (28.28/s) item 3095 + item 3087: 23.4 per attack and 1.3 per 30 units traveled (16.9/s) item 3095 + item 3087 + item 2015: 26.1 per attack and 1.45 per 30 units traveled (18.85/s) item 3095 + item 3087 +item 3094: 26.1 per attack and 2.175 per 30 units traveled (28.28/s) Trundle Build of item 3095 + item 3087 + item 3094 + item 2015: 28.8 per attack and 2.4 per 30 units traveled (31.2/s)

Essentially having all 3 makes the energize rate a little more than double the base (217.5% increase) ...and having another Kircheis for whatever justified reason you may have would increase it to 240%...

Once again, doesn't fix the item slot dedication to defense (GA + BT) and IE issue but it makes Energize effects actually synergize better and thus makes Storm more viable to build into.

Anyway, thoughts?

29 Comments

Anime Fizz4 votes

The problem with the item is that it gives too little stats for its cost.

Also the bonus damage part itself of the item is completely useless since you're pretty much ALWAYS going to build it after you already have another energized item, which will make it irrelevant.

I say remove the damage part of the energize effect it has (or increase so its the highest of the energized items) and if you do then you can just make it a 65~70 ad item again at a 3000 or 2900 cost.

Or keep the low stats and simply increase both the storm energize base damage (so you actually gain some damage from building it compared to shiv or rfc) and the bonus effect to like bonus 60% of the energized effects.

It needs basically either to have a very powerfull passives with bad stats for its costs or have actual stats if the passives are going to be as tame as they are now, riot really underloaded the item.

Illabethe3 votes

it gives adc a 40% Slow. Something no other item/skill does except Ashe.

LordGeovanni1 votes

problem with that is adcs dont need it on account of having stronger slows than that and better other cc all on decently low cooldowns without any cdr built.

Hilsun2 votes

I think I need to actually play with it a bit more before I can have a real opinion on it. I did try it one game, but it felt a bit underwhelming; even though we won and I did well, I think I would have been able to carry more easily if I'd built something else. I also synergized the effect with Fleet Footwork--have you thought about how the Fleet Footwork energizing passive would tie into all your ideas?

Z3Sleeper1 votes

{quoted}

I also synergized the effect with Fleet Footwork--have you thought about how the Fleet Footwork energizing passive would tie into all your ideas?

Yes. I think that'd be perfectly fine. Kinda weird for a rune to directly synergize with an item like that though.

If it's ever not balanced there's always the option of removing Fleet from the list of Energize effects and giving it a separate "name".

Moonscourge2 votes

The slow is powerful and it DOES increase your energized attack by 30%, meaning 30% more range, 30% more damage... It's good, but doesn't scale well into the game. Just like previous Stormrazor. If they make the stats a bit more attractive you'll start seeing it more once people catch onto that. AD and AS is still a very potent combo, it's just hard to fit into builds right now because people want to max that crit chance and need some life steal too. Ideally this is a 4th item, but why not get a PD and a massive shield and maxed crit chance? Or ER to give you more ultimates for more kills, more plays, more everything?

It competes with too many good items, that is all.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Exactly why it needs to be a good item itself as well considering the point at which it will be bought. The slow being a powerful skill to have every 5 seconds in the early levels is meaningless, as you will never have it at that time. By the time you have it, late game has already begun. Also have to consider that it's own energize damage is being tossed out the window as well, meaning -50 damage for +30% (PS: it ends up weaker at all levels since RFC/Statikk will gain a max of 42 bonus damage from the +30% while losing Storm's 50).

Storm will NEVER be first item. Storm will be at best a 4th item purchase after IE and Statikk.

So if you're gonna have it compete with the likes of item 3026 item 3072 item 3139 item 3022 item 3036 it had better be decent enough to even be considered an option.

As it stands, Energize simply procs way too little during fights (about once every 6 seconds). This suggestion cuts that down to about 3 seconds, 2.5-ish if you have all 3 which also means you're foregoing the massive utility/defense of Phantom Dancer and the above options.

KidSpectre1 votes

I built it once and... I liked the AD+AS combo, but the actual effect was super underwhelming. There are items that slow better; I hardly see the point. And given how long energize takes to re-proc in a fight, the increased effectiveness of it is negligible.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

{quoted}

And given how long energize takes to re-proc in a fight, the increased effectiveness of it is negligible.

Which is what I aim to fix on it for the late game.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

I'd rather Riot delete Stormrazor... and Shiv/RFC along with it.

MankeyMadness1 votes

Its absolutely worth it if they bring the AD up to 70 again or decrease the combine cost by like 400g. Shiv+SR+IE Vayne will one shot anything her Q hits if it gets a good coinflip with 140+ bonus AD + level 11 ult on.

Razor got MORE expensive and LESS AD with the change, that's why it sucks now.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Vayne's Q bonus damage can't crit anymore.

Ackelope1 votes

the main thing i'd be concerned about here is changing the way the energize effects work independently. While stormrazor itself isn't a particularly strong item, because it's simply almost never the best unique effect to have, and it's very far from gold efficient, the other energize effects that exist in the game are all relatively potent and used quite frequently on the champions you'd expect them to be used on. I'd say that something needs to be changed about the way stormrazor specifically interacts with the energized items, rather than changing the energized items themselves, to avoid as many unintended disruptors as possible

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Suggestion doesn't change the effect of any of the energized items, merely ups the charge rates of Statikk and Storm. They all still utilize the same charge system so the rate increases from each affect them all.

RFC is nearly completely unaffected. The +25% on attack is removed and stacked on top of the +25% on movement for +50% on movement. Statikk is getting +50% on movement, completely new and completely a buff. Thus, -5% attack speed since it's proccing 50% more often from attacks. Storm is getting +15-45% on the total rate. No compensation nerf needed because the item is already weak and Riot is buffing its stats. This is a suggestion meant to replace that buff.

Ackelope1 votes

sorry for not making it clear, but i didn't mean this post to say that i thought your changes were too disruptive, but rather just because i thought it was something worth bringing up to make sure people have in mind if they make differing suggestions, or start to go on a different route

Pierce The Veal1 votes

It’s just, even if people magically had the gold to build it, there’s no room in people’s builds for stormrazor.

Even in urf I find myself opting out of building it even when I have both statik shiv and rapidfire cannon. It just doesn’t buff energized by enough to make it worth building over a defensive/lifesteal/armor pen item. It’s garbage as a one off item and if you’re building an energized item you’re better off getting an infinity exge after. That’s already three item slots. So let’s say you somehow opt for more damage to your burst? Just more AD, any other crit item, or armor pen will do that job better than stormrazor can (without it being buffed till it’s broken).

So it’s just such an auxillary item that there isn’t feasibly a time someone would want to build it over any of the alternatives.

On the other hand, I think your suggested changes to both rapidfire cannon and statikk shiv are net nerfs. The 5% attack speed is more valuable than 50% increased recharge rate from moving, which only really can be abused by yasuo. The 25% faster recharge on rfc is better overall because autos charge faster than moving. If you buy all three and get 145% increased recharge while moving and 45% increased recharge while auto attacking, it’s still lackluster because it’s an on hit that procs every few autos at best, one that furthermore relies on crit.

I can narrow down the problem to one crucial thing. Statikk shiv requires a crit to do reasonable damage, to get reliable crit you need 100% crit chance which takes 4 items, furthermore infinity edge increases the damage of statikk shiv’s crit as well, so you need it to maximize its damage. If; and this is crazy, stomrazor guaranteed the statikk shiv crit, it would be worthwhile to get.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HeENEEJY,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-03-02T01:31:15.322+0000)

On the other hand, I think your suggested changes to both rapidfire cannon and statikk shiv are net nerfs. The 5% attack speed is more valuable than 50% increased recharge rate from moving, which only really can be abused by yasuo.

That was a massive typo. Statikk was supposed to say "when attacking". Messed it up during one of the edits.

The 25% faster recharge on rfc is better overall because autos charge faster than moving. If you buy all three and get 145% increased recharge while moving and 45% increased recharge while auto attacking, it’s still lackluster because it’s an on hit that procs every few autos at best, one that furthermore relies on crit.

You can find all those stats on the bottom of the OP. Once you have all 3 it's now proccing at an "in combat" rate of about every 3 seconds depending on if you are moving or attacking more (moving is faster).

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

That was a massive typo. Statikk was supposed to say "when attacking". Messed it up during one of the edits.

You can find all those stats on the bottom of the OP. Once you have all 3 it's now proccing at an "in combat" rate of about every 3 seconds depending on if you are moving or attacking more (moving is faster).

Even with all that, building a champion around proccing that every 3 seconds is not that great. It doesn’t overall give that much attack speed, it’s lacking in attack damage, and it furthermore only has 50% crit. You’d need IE to maximize the efficacy, after which you realize you have 1 item slot left to choose between penetration, defense, sustain, or maxing out 100% crit.

Ultimately it gives you meh burst but also meh dps. It wouldn’t be worth itemizing for even with your reworks; and this is coming from someone who use to like taking statikk shiv on old Akali.

Illabethe1 votes

Sorry, but I've taken the new Stormrazor, and it's actually pretty nasty. Just ...... not as a crit item. The SLOW is the best in game for an adc who does not have one, and it resets frequently. It's better for an adc than Frozen Mallet is, and those juggernauts who have a tendency to get away or all in are HEAVILY punished by it.

You don't get it as a carry item. You get it to control your direct counter classes.

Paroe1 votes

I think youre missing the point entirely of energized. It isnt really meant to have everything you need ever - Its meant to be a different playstyle than that of normal right clicking. With that in mind, Storm razor could use a cost reduction to be brought in line with other energized items... But overall the item is SOLID. You are NOT SUPPOSED TO RUSH OR BUY STORM RAZOR IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO MAKE USE OF ITS ENERGIZED EFFECT.

Also, While the damage proc of energized does not stack, the bonus effects DO stack now. RFC gives you range, Shiv gives you AoE, Fleet gives you a heal, and storm razor gives you a slow. item 3095 item 3087 item 3094 item 3006 item 3031 is the thunderstruck build - a ranged split pushing build focusing on energized procs to poke your opponent out of lane and give you the opportunity to run away with your superior movement speed and AoE slow. With fleet, you basically have a proc every fourth or fifth auto.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

It's actually every 6 autos most of the time. 15 x 5 + 2.5 seconds of movement at 400+ for 16+/s.

Usually ends up being 5 for 60 and slightly more than 3s of movement for ~50. (Totaling about 5 seconds in both cases). The next auto (the 6th one) is what procs the effect or you can run around slighly longer to get it on your 5th auto.

The AoE slow lasts 1 second and even decays over that second and is affected by tenacity and slow removals. Chances are if you aren't an ADC with self-peel that was in danger of being caught up to already, this slow isn't going to save you.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Umm they stack. Hence if you have rapid and static they proc on turret...... great on graves and jhin . Go for the trifecta . Also

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Effects stack. Damage doesn't.

RFC + Statikk = Statikk damage + Statikk Lightning with RFC range (no RFC damage) Storm + RFC + Statikk = Statikk damage + Statikk Lightning with RFC range (all enhanced) (No RFC damage, no Storm damage) RFC + Kircheis = RFC, Kircheis literally does nothing Statikk + Kircheis = Statikk, Kircheis literally does nothing

Essentially energize damage doesn't stack whatsoever. So when building your 2nd Kircheis, it's literally 600 gold of useless (minus the 3% AS).

This also means only one of Kircheis, Storm or RFC damage will be dealt, the rest are cancelled out.

Storm alone is 50 damage on Energize, Statikk goes up to 140. When you have Statikk, you lose out on Storm's 50, but you gain +30%.

How much is +30% of 140? 42. 8 less than Storm's.

This is why the effects need to synergize well enough to warrant buying such combined cost inefficient purchases.

Moonscourge1 votes

Maybe if they made energized attacks heal for 10% of the damage dealt it could have a decent place. Careful not to break it with Footwork though.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Shouldn't be bad I think. Fleet's heal kinda scales badly (just really good for early sustain and later for kiting). So this would make it slightly less bad on ranged champions.

This change would make it proc around every 2+ seconds if you have all 3 and you're actually attacking. Moving alone would generate it after a little more than 3 seconds.

It'll definitely still heal less than Lifesteal and the MS is only +26% for 1.3 seconds (I actually don't know how Fleet scales with Storm, I'm assuming the MS bonus and the duration both get increased, not sure).

Tusutaki1 votes

While it may make sense, it will never EVER be a viable pick due to the reasons you already stated and another reason is how weak the energized effects actually are across all the items. Stattik Shiv has been nerfed into oblivion a long time ago when they removed the bonus damage on minions. Thus making RFC a more desirable choice but not purely because of the effect per say but because there's no other viable options if you're not a champ that can use Hurricane effectively.

So I wouldnt say Stormrazer is bad because of it being actually bad but because of how weak the other energized effects are.

A quick and simple solution would be to revert Stormrazer to it's previous iteration because of how it works now it will never be looked at fondly. Its like buying item that boosts your bonus armor and MR by x% but you have practically none to begin with.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Definitely agree with it never being viable in its current iteration (energize enhancer) in this current meta.

There's just no room for it in builds, even with those changes I suggested. My changes were just to make it better overall, still doesn't fix the slot issue.

Jarring1 votes

i kind of like the new pd, but i hate the new stormrazor.

however, I think they both need to change.

TBH i want the PD to be reverted to how it was to begin with, and I want stormrazor to be another crit/dmg item like ER and IE with PD's new passive that gives a shield at 30% hp.

Both together would be a fantastic option for ADCs who need a little bit better of a safety net... especially with a merc as third item, it would look and feel like a real clean core for safer ADC builds.

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