Playing support and ending up with too much cooldown reduction

Moonfall Saber·May 10, 2017·27 votes·1,950 views

I wish I wasn't wasting so much gold on cdr that I don't need

54 Comments

ChaddyFantomeMay 10, 201715 votes

We all know that feel brother. Unfortunately Riot doesn't seem to know a way to give supports stats without making other lanes abuse them. Meanwhile, Riot struggles to give Tank Supports any CDR at all because Top laners and tanky junglers would abuse it.

Such is the world we live in.

Funkin DunkinMay 10, 20172 votes

Tanks don't have cdr?

item 3110 item 3025 item 3083 item 3065 item 3194 item 3001

SilverjustMay 10, 20177 votes

of this items, only item 3110 is a support item and you can't build it every game the rest can only be built as maybe last item if the game is long enough.

Tasnk-supports need CDR on item 3109

Praetor NotoriasMay 10, 20172 votes

Every last one of those looks like a support item to me under the right conditions.

Frozen heart vs enemy team with a lot of attack speed (vayne hates this item, so does teemo and twitch and...)

IBG is good when your allies are a little pudgy and need some help catching someone you can stick to easy.

Warmogs is terrible on a support cause they have to go back so often, but when you don't need no stinkin wards why not?

Spirit Visage is a MR item that gives you anti-poke sustain, which is exactly what a support needs.

Adaptive Helm is pretty obvious for when you need more MR.

Abyssal is really good if your ADC has an AP component (Ezreal Teemo) or if your jungle/midlaner/top is AP. Remember you support more than the ADC.

AirKingNeoMay 10, 20174 votes

No, they are all not support items except Frozen Heart.

AwesomeGuyDjMay 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

No, they are all not support items except Frozen Heart.

The core build for supports right now seems to be, Support item (duh) Redemption, Locket. That leaves 3 items for tanks, which can build any of those items reliably. Also, he gives valid reasons and you just say "no" without any counter reasoning.

AirKingNeoMay 11, 20172 votes

No because they aren't supportive items. If you aren't building to support, do not support then. item 3047 item 3401 item 2045 item 3190 item 3109 item 3110 / item 3107

They are not support items. Supports do not build them. Tell me, where in high elo do you see supports building items selfishly?

Moonfall SaberMay 11, 20171 votes

I'm Plat support main and I build pure ap leona. Jk

Praetor NotoriasMay 11, 20171 votes

You sound like a shitty support. If you need more MR to get in there, buy some more MR. You don't need a locket unless you NEED a locket. You have to support your team, not build some cookie cutter shit every game.

AirKingNeoMay 12, 20172 votes

Need more MR? item 3111 instead of Tabi.

Every game you need Locket. There is literally no support who isn't playing as a mage carry who isn't building locket. The entire fucking boards keeps complaining about Locket Redemption being used 100% of the time.

You have to support your team. SURPRISE SURPISE, BUILDING SPIRIT VISAGE IS NOT SUPPORTING YOUR TEAM, instead yourself.

EDIT: Why do you insist on arguing something that is factually incorrect?

Sexy Jack RabbitMay 11, 20171 votes

The typical build is usually more so like;

Support Item Sightstone Redemption Locket Boots Optional.

This leaves you with 1 - 2 slots of items you can choose depending on whether you blended your support item and Sight stone or not.

AMYS GRAVEMay 11, 20171 votes

That leaves 3 items for tanks,

What? No, supports get

gold gen item ruby sightstone boots of choice control wards redemption locket

That's it. No room for tank items. Locket redemption and sightstone are your tank items.

Silly NeekoMay 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What? No, supports get

gold gen item ruby sightstone boots of choice control wards redemption locket

That's it. No room for tank items. Locket redemption and sightstone are your tank items.

you must not play support much.

AMYS GRAVEMay 11, 20171 votes

lol

ChaddyFantomeMay 14, 20171 votes

Tank SUPPORTS, please learn to read. their only option really is frozen heart.

Asayake 5150glowMay 10, 20174 votes

{quoted}

We all know that feel brother. Unfortunately Riot doesn't seem to know a way to give supports stats without making other lanes abuse them. Meanwhile, Riot struggles to give Tank Supports any CDR at all because Top laners and tanky junglers would abuse it.

Such is the world we live in.

item 3194 item 3001 Riot has been helping give tanks CDR on items...

Now if only there was a health/armor/CDR item. Not just armor/CDR like Frozen Fist and Frozen Heart.

MysterQMay 10, 20175 votes

Puuuuhlease.

Riot is removing health from everything it can. I don't like it, but I doubt they will give us more health.

SilverjustMay 10, 20171 votes

It was not about removig health, it was about moving general devense values (health) to more specified defense values (armor/mr) on the main tank-items to change their powerspike

that means they could give us an armor-CDR item

I thought they wanted to buff knights-vow, why not put CDR on it

MysterQMay 10, 20173 votes

Problem is (correct me if I am wrong), at some point stacking armor on armor on armor is not as helpful as getting health ontop of your armor. If you have low health all the armor in the world won't make you feel much tankier. But I could be wrong maybe there isn't diminshing returns or anything.

TwitchInMyPantsMay 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Problem is (correct me if I am wrong), at some point stacking armor on armor on armor is not as helpful as getting health ontop of your armor. If you have low health all the armor in the world won't make you feel much tankier. But I could be wrong maybe there isn't diminshing returns or anything.

Yeah, 50 armor is about 30% reduction, 100 armor is about 50% reduction, and it gets to 66% or something at 200 and under 80% at 300. I didn't do the exact math recently but resist's value drops dramatically after 100-200 so you only stack it when its needed or your character gets bonus scaling from resist.

Glory ln DeathMay 11, 20171 votes

False. The values you listed are correct, but every point of armor/mr gives the same value, no matter how much you buy. Armor and mr do not have diminishing returns.

Say you have 1000 health. If you have 0 armor, it takes 1000 physical damage to kill you. If you have 100 armor, 1000 damage only deals 500 to your health bar, so you need to take 2000 damage total before you will die. Your Effective Health was increased by 1000. If you have 200 armor, 1000 damage only deals 333 to your health bar (66% reduction) so you have to take 3000 damage before you die. Your Effective Health was increased by another 1000.

Every point of armor or mr increases your Effective Health against its respective damage type by 1%, no matter how much you have. The reason you need both health and resists is to maximize your Effective Health - 1000 health with 500 armor gives you 6000 EHP, but 2000 health gets you the same EHP with just 200 armor, and 3000 health gets it with 100 armor. It is cheaper and easier when you have a balanced mix of health and resistances.

Hyrum GraffMay 11, 20171 votes

It's a trade-off. Returns don't diminish absolutely, but since each point of resists makes a point of hp worth more, it does diminish the relative return. Therefore, it's best to get a mix of the two.

^(tldr of above comment)

SpecterVonBarenMay 11, 20175 votes

I GOT IT! Change item 3069 's quest reward into giving you bonus stats for every point of CDR you get over the 40% cap.

Moonfall SaberMay 11, 20171 votes

Sounds great!!!

Leaf on BushMay 10, 20172 votes

Shouldn't be a problem unless you build item 3174 .

Moonfall SaberMay 10, 20172 votes

I do =[

Silly NeekoMay 10, 20171 votes

Nami ...... item 2301 item 3107 item 3009 item 3110 item 3109 item 3116

Or item 2045 item 3009 item 3107 item 3190 item 3092 item 3110

Moonfall SaberMay 10, 20171 votes

I play soraka and Rakan and j build redemption, ardent, mercury treads, unholy grail, spirit visage, and Rylias. I suppose I could trade unholy grail for something because it's a shitty item anyway but I like the ability power and magic resist from it

Votable JesterMay 10, 20171 votes

Could always switch to item 3222 It gives a ton of heal/shield power and the active is pretty darn strong.

A BepiMay 11, 20171 votes

Athenes is a great item if you use it to your advantage. If you like to play aggressive poke soraka then it adds more healing to your W which can essentially double your heal ^^ plus the health regen and cdr are not bad buys for soraka. Although u can always replace rylais for warmogs since it would only apply to your E

Champion SkinMay 12, 20171 votes

Actually health regen is pretty weak on Soraka since it is all based of base HP regen and Riot gutted Soraka base HP regen (wanting her to land Q to get HP back rather then HP regen)

There are a couple of exceptions HP regen runes are still flat amount as well as Dorans shield and Catalyst HP restore on spending mana

BârdMay 10, 20174 votes

Nami should be building item 2301 item 3190 item 3107 as her core. item 3092 is decent, but there are better items and you don't have the item slots in most games.

Her boots should be custom to the game, item 3047 item 3111 item 3009 item 3117 ( item 3158 if you don't take any in your runes and are planning on buying only 10% CDR in your last two items).

Past that, get some situational items for your last two, nabbing 20% more CDR.

item 3222 item 3504 are the go-to.

item 3083 sounds weird, but heals not used on yourself are heals used on your allies. Wait until buying it puts you over the 2750 threshold, buy only if you are already somewhat safe in fights.

item 3102 isn't half bad. AP for your heals/slows, and a spell shield to boot. Only get it when you are ahead and your carries don't need much protection.

item 3110 if one of your last two has no CDR, and you don't have 10% in your runes, buy this.

item 3109 isn't bad.

item 3001 is situational. Get it if you are being dived by AP's and you have a major source of magic damage.

item 3041 if you are a man, get this.

item 3174 if you bought a Banshees or Mejais, and don't need the armor from Heart, get this.

Just for the love of god don't buy item 3116 . 3/4 of your spells already have CC, so it's just not worth it.

Silly NeekoMay 10, 20172 votes

Health, Healing slows that you can bounce off your ally and hit an enemy.... Both speeding up said ally and slowing said enemy.... Gives a good bit of AP. Plus that is just very situational, however it gives you a LOT safer kiting room if you need to slow an enemy down than trying to auto them....but it was more of a "couldnt think of my more usual build" which is normally including locket.

Also. For your information, that is only two of the multiple builds i normally would do depending on the situation. These builds are just 2 that get me to my 45% cdr, one with me being more tanky, one with me being more "i do not trust these bushes" kinda thing.

Dont worry, i have plenty of Nami experience. You can settle down a bit.

Along with the FQC is good for when you have Redemption and Locket both, because you can then get the Ruby Sightstone for the items cooldowns.

Sleepy SonaMay 11, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Silly NeekoMay 11, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleepy Sona,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdwotA8w,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-05-11T00:48:33.853+0000)

this build is pretty terrible

is kinda outdated unless you need 20% cdr

is halved for ranged champions

is disgusting because you already have cc on all your spells so you only gain a 20% slow on W and... that's all

To each their own..... Again im not forcing anyone to do the build. I do the build. Me. I honestly do not care if others do the build, I do. If people wish to try it before complaining feel free. If not, oh well.

Next up is people going to be trying to bring up my rank, or whatever else to try and dissuade me from doing a build I like and that works well for me. Oh well.

A BepiMay 11, 20172 votes

It's fine if the build works for you then perfect! I honestly don't build redemption since I just hate that item and would rather build something else (I know redemption is mandatory but I wish they removed that item along with locket and added real ap enchantress items)

I would agree with most people that rylais isn't all that great on nami but everyone plays different and if you are making full use of that item then ignore everybody else and you keep building that item :) who cares about rank, that shit doesn't even mean much since a lot of people get boosted or carried anyway lol I care more about knowledge than rank

Silly NeekoMay 11, 20171 votes

Lol well as i explained in a previous reply, the Rylais i already know only works on the W..... But it is also her main poke, and is much easier and safer to do with less mana drain if you just W. This also lets you save your empowered attacks for an ally...... But in the event that the enemy is just a bit faster than the ally? Pop a W heal on the ally, it bounces to an enemy. Much more reliable than JUST the move speed boost..... Also it slows down up to 2 enemies with much less cooldown than FQC, and does not rely on you needing to figure out if the ally ADC or something will use the slow correctly. I just put it on the ADC and let him target who they want as i just go slowing all around.

It also gives a nice boost to the AP, and HP. Yes there are other builds that could work better..... There are others that might logically in thought of just the item itself can do for just the kit...... But I do not think people actually see or think about how the actual in game goes.

Sleepy SonaMay 11, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Silly NeekoMay 11, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleepy Sona,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdwotA8w,comment-id=0001000200000001,timestamp=2017-05-11T11:48:57.847+0000)

If you don't want to get out of low elo thats your problem i only wanted to help you

And theres the judgement lol, I do not do much ranked and so you instantly assume "low elo" "they are trash and dont know what they are talking about at all"..... Please actually figure out that not everyone cares as much as obviously you do about rank and elo..... And that just because you believe someone to be lower elo, that does not mean they are not as good as you, if not potentially better.

Not saying I personally am, but you are a very stereotypical and prejudiced player. You might actually read some points i mentioned that actually has it viable in some situations and that it is also not a normal item for me to build..... Just its one that i find is perfectly fine for her.

Friendly RamMay 11, 20171 votes

YEP.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 11, 20171 votes

What if there was an item that converted excess CDR into a bonus effect?

Moonfall SaberMay 11, 20171 votes

That's what I was thinking. However what item could do that. The only thing I can think of is coins quest. Putting it on redemption would over load it although it is the only item that is built by every support.

Moonfall SaberMay 11, 20171 votes

Redemption additional passive: cooldown overflow: every 1% cooldown reduction over 40% is transfered into 2 AP 1 armor and magic resist and 25% bonus health and mana regen.

DemainaNyxMay 11, 20171 votes

Yep, I was a Karma with Censer, Redemption, Eye, and Tabi but had to build Frozen Heart cause no one wanted to slow the attack speed of the Kayle who was 1v5ing us.

Maybe do something like it gives extra heals/shield or something. I'm trying to figure out a way to make it so that midlaners don't just get tons of CDR. Maybe give it something like Triforce where extra CDR converts to increased base stats.

Moonfall SaberMay 11, 20171 votes

triforce does what?! item 3078

DemainaNyxMay 17, 20171 votes

Triforce does the sheen damage based on your base AD, so building AD doesn't affect it's sheen proc like AP does with Lich Bane. So, if you had an item that affects a supports base stats and maybe slightly increased them if they have excess CDR, midlaners probably wouldn't build it cause it wouldn't be a big buff to them to increase a base stat.

I didn't word it well in my original post. MB

Moonfall SaberMay 17, 20171 votes

i got you now bro

SnowFallMay 12, 20171 votes

Remove CDR Cap for supports ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Champion SkinMay 12, 20171 votes

Then I am pretty sure you don't play tank supports?

Eye equinox/face of the mountain 10% Redemption 10% Locket, Knights vow 0% Total of 20% CDR

So you will probably have to buy something like 20% Frozen heart or Iceborn Gauntlet

Or if you can afford to get it from two items there are also 10% Spirit visage (and the other HP + MR tank items) warmogs and banner of command... CDR boots(?)

Yeah your not hitting 40% CDR anytime soon on a support budget

Moonfall SaberMay 12, 20171 votes

When I play tank supports i rush an icebourn gauntlet followed by redemption and spirit visage. I very rarely build locket but I may build a knights vow first instead depending on the match up. I would rather have face of the mountain than locket.