@Riot: The way you guys handled Dominion is an absolute disgrace and you should be ashamed.

TheLittlestLulu·Jan 7, 2016·36 votes·3,097 views

So it's pretty much common knowledge that nobody at Riot gives a good god damn about Dominion. They straight up ignore the obscene botting epidemic and have no plans to improve the gamemode in any way. I remember in 2012 they said that ranked Dominion was ready to go and that they were "waiting for Dominion to mature". They continued to sit there and let it rot and now it's at a point where it might as well be deleted.

And then to top it all of you guys ended up deleting the Dominion forums, the only thing that was holding this gamemode's community together. I really struggle to think of a more egregious example of disgusting game developer behavior than what you guys did with Dominion.

23 Comments

JalkanJan 8, 20164 votes

I don't think Riot could have fully controlled what happened to Dominion. After its release, many players tried it out because it was new, then quickly went back to Summoner's Rift because they prefer it, as they are more used to it, and it's the reason they play the game at all. It's similar to why featured game modes are rotated and never permanent.

MinardeJan 8, 20167 votes

many players tried it out because it was new, then quickly went back to Summoner's Rift because they prefer it, as they are more used to it

That's a little questionable. A large number of people have stated over the years that they went to SR because Dominion didn't have ranked. The lack of a specific goal made the players feel that there was no reason to try to become good at the map. They didn't necessarily prefer SR's gameplay; they preferred having a visible representation of their progress.

TheLittlestLuluJan 8, 20163 votes

{quoted}

That's a little questionable. A large number of people have stated over the years that they went to SR because Dominion didn't have ranked. The lack of a specific goal made the players feel that there was no reason to try to become good at the map. They didn't necessarily prefer SR's gameplay; they preferred having a visible representation of their progress.

Oh yeah, on that note there actually used to be a visible representation of progress in Dominion through Jabebot, which allowed a player to see their Dominion mmr.

Of course Riot ended up bringing down the hammer on this and making it impossible to see your Dominion mmr.

RebonackJan 8, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Oh yeah, on that note there actually used to be a visible representation of progress in Dominion through Jabebot, which allowed a player to see their Dominion mmr.

Of course Riot ended up bringing down the hammer on this and making it impossible to see your Dominion mmr.

And a lot of players quit because of it, too.

I stopped playing Dominion for a little over a year because it didn't feel like there was a point.

RiotL4T3NCYFeb 10, 20169 votes

copy pasta from another thread:

RE the "chicken & egg" analogy for Dominion support: The large majority of players immediately bounced from the mode even when it was first released, preferring Summoner's Rift gameplay instead. The "capture & hold" style of gameplay didn't translate well into a MOBA and players voted strongly with their time: they spent it in SR instead.

We certainly could have spent the time & resources to design out the problems and mitigate floors in Dominion, but we recognised an already better experience existed in SR. It had more strategic choice, clearer game-state and a wider variety of satisfying roles. The team chose to double-down on SR instead of splitting between both SR and Dominion. At that point we should have clearly communicated this to you guys, which we didn't. That sucked and it's our bad.

Dominion's map shape + capture & hold gameplay was going to have diminishing returns for design time spent on it: and players still just wanted to play SR. I believe League is in a better place today for the time and effort we spent doubling down on SR, rather than splitting focus on Dominion.

KeevalroyFeb 10, 201610 votes

I believe League is in a better place today for the time and effort we spent doubling down on SR,

That has to be the scariest fucking thing I've ever read from a Rioter. You guys truly do believe this season is going in the right direction don't you? God help us.

TheLittlestLuluFeb 10, 20163 votes

{quoted}

The large majority of players immediately bounced from the mode even when it was first released

Yeah that had nothing to do with things like you guys letting Kassadin utterly demolish the gamemode until it was far too late, and just in general immediately showing you had no intention to properly support the gamemode. :^)

TahngarthorFeb 10, 20162 votes

{quoted}

copy pasta from another thread:

RE the "chicken & egg" analogy for Dominion support: The large majority of players immediately bounced from the mode even when it was first released, preferring Summoner's Rift gameplay instead. The "capture & hold" style of gameplay didn't translate well into a MOBA and players voted strongly with their time: they spent it in SR instead.

We certainly could have spent the time & resources to design out the problems and mitigate floors in Dominion, but we recognised an already better experience existed in SR. It had more strategic choice, clearer game-state and a wider variety of satisfying roles. The team chose to double-down on SR instead of splitting between both SR and Dominion. At that point we should have clearly communicated this to you guys, which we didn't. That sucked and it's our bad.

Dominion's map shape + capture & hold gameplay was going to have diminishing returns for design time spent on it: and players still just wanted to play SR. I believe League is in a better place today for the time and effort we spent doubling down on SR, rather than splitting focus on Dominion.

Your post amounts to "We're sorry we didn't abandon it sooner" which is totally the wrong approach and attitude you should be taking, both to your playerbase and to your creative team responsible for building and designing the game. It feels like you never intended to give things the proper support and this project was probably doomed from the start due to RIot's poor attitude towards their own creation.

I believe League is in a better place today for the time and effort we spent doubling down on SR, rather than splitting focus on Dominion.

Your belief is misplaced. The MOBA genre is growing stagnant, and you seem to believe the old formula is the only one that works. With at least half a dozen MOBAs whose core game mode is essentially the same, with essentially the same map design and the same strategy and the same roles, all trying to capitalize on a set size fan base, it's honestly refreshing to see companies like Blizzard innovating the genre even a little bit. You guys could learn something from them. Even Smite, whose core game mode is basically identical to yours, has a variety of maps and modes that all see play time (Except their capture & hold mode admittedly, although I feel its design was inferior to Dominion).

RebonackFeb 10, 20164 votes

{quoted}

copy pasta from another thread:

RE the "chicken & egg" analogy for Dominion support: The large majority of players immediately bounced from the mode even when it was first released, preferring Summoner's Rift gameplay instead. The "capture & hold" style of gameplay didn't translate well into a MOBA and players voted strongly with their time: they spent it in SR instead.

We certainly could have spent the time & resources to design out the problems and mitigate floors in Dominion, but we recognised an already better experience existed in SR. It had more strategic choice, clearer game-state and a wider variety of satisfying roles. The team chose to double-down on SR instead of splitting between both SR and Dominion. At that point we should have clearly communicated this to you guys, which we didn't. That sucked and it's our bad.

Dominion's map shape + capture & hold gameplay was going to have diminishing returns for design time spent on it: and players still just wanted to play SR. I believe League is in a better place today for the time and effort we spent doubling down on SR, rather than splitting focus on Dominion.

Rift has better design?

Really?

Allow me to retort.

{quoted}

Well, lets see...

Summoner's Rift: Massively tilted in favor of early game champions. Crystal Scar: Both early stomp to win comps and stall for late game comps work equally well.

Summoner's Rift: Fairly ridged lane positions that restrict team compositions. Crystal Scar: Provided you have one champ who can hold bottom lane, ideal team compositions are based purely on champion synergy and counter-picks.

Summoner's Rift: Massive collection of champions who are absolute trash. Crystal Scar: The only bad champions are the ones with stacking mechanics that aren't adjusted for the lack of lane phase and/or shorter games.

Summoner's Rift: Objectives favor Marksmen and require at least one on each team. Crystal Scar: Objectives can be taken with equal ease by all champions, making Marksmen optional.

Summoner's Rift: Snowballs like crazy, leading to a toxic defeatist attitude. Many games end in surrender. Crystal Scar: What little snowballing exists is countered by respawn timers and team bounties. The game is never over until its over.

Summoner's Rift: Lane phase combined with snowballing means one guy can totally lose the game for you 15 minutes in, leading to toxic team-mate blaming. Crystal Scar: A team game right from the gate, encourages team cooperation.

Looks like it checks out.

CrossetteFeb 10, 20161 votes

so much this

Arcade AndrewFeb 10, 20163 votes

People only went to SR because -no ranked in Dom -no dedicated support

after saying magma chamber wouldn't be released we gave up hope that you'd ever update dominion

...

I can't speak for everyone but if dominion was leagues main focus or main map or even had a ranked Q I'd probably RARELY be on SR anymore...

I can't even do ranked threes anymore with the new removal of ranked teams (because my friends were higher tiers than me, and because time zone problems)

SR is my least favorite map of all maps ever in the history of League. I only play it Cus it's the only one with ranked

54340481_DELFeb 10, 20163 votes

I'm not a huge fan of capture/defend game modes (exception being HotS cause the capture points are only there to help you take the nexus & aren't the main focus) in MOBA's cause the game feels like you're just waiting around to slowly die due to you having only 2 points out of 5 instead of 3. What really makes me sad is that Twisted Treeline & ARAM might get the same treatment as Dominion soon.

Those maps have the same damn objective as SR for crying out loud & Riot barely does anything with them except throw the occasion featured game mode icing on. I'd probably play TT as much as SR if I didn't have to change all my builds & didn't feel like getting good at 3v3's did nothing for my rank. ARAM is just a stupid fucking gimmick & I hate it but at least it has the same objective.

Riot's logic seems to be "We want more people to play on SR, a map we will do nothing for except make new minion models to go with skin lines that get removed later. Let's remove other game modes & give them nothing in return for the extra time 'working' on SR, I'm sure no one will complain". Is it so hard to ask for a snowy or spooky SR or being able to use the different minion models all the time now that you guys aren't "dividing resources"? Cause it seems that you guys haven't done much with this extra time since the visual update to SR besides adding Rift Herald & base gates.

I stress SEEMS cause I have no idea what the under the hood work you guys are doing in the background looks like. But my ability to give the benefit of the doubt is really being pushed here. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

DreadlocksJan 7, 20162 votes

Riot could be making more money if they did something about it too xD. Because essentially the people making the bots for dominion are making the money riot could have. And all it does is ruin the reputation of the map and riot as a whole. Its not like Riot is making money banning these accounts.

BetweenSkillJan 8, 20162 votes

You are more likely to get a Riot response if your post addresses specific issues with details and how you feel about those specifically. It makes it easier for them to respond. That saying, I agree with the subject matter of what you said, and I'm saying this because it does deserve conversation.

TheLittlestLuluJan 8, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=HIMM Sandwich,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HcRmmLvE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-08T05:07:10.555+0000)

You are more likely to get a Riot response if your post addresses specific issues with details and how you feel about those specifically. It makes it easier for them to respond. That saying, I agree with the subject matter of what you said, and I'm saying this because it does deserve conversation.

There has already been plenty of that since 2012. It's pointless.

The point of this thread isn't to get Riot to change anything because I already know that they won't. I'm just venting cause every time I think about Dominion I get angry and I want to make sure whoever is responsible for this mess knows they are awful for letting it happen.

MinardeJan 8, 20163 votes

There's already been many topics, even relatively recently, about specific issues with Dominion, including suggestions about balance changes, potential reworks/updates, and player progression measurement. Unfortunately, Riot's response has slowly dwindled over the years down to a now roughly annual "We've handled alternate maps badly and feel bad about it. We're discussing possible solutions."

Listing out specifics doesn't seem to have worked. At the very least, venting topics like this one are helpful to remind both Riot and the overall League community about the frustration of being an alternate maps player.

ShaftyMegeeJan 8, 20162 votes

I just don't think the game mode is very fun myself.

Though I'm pretty sure riot cares more about SR because that's where all the cash is.

Kholdstare13Jan 15, 20162 votes

Scale of Morality in Customer Treatment:

EA . . . . Ubisoft . . . . . . . Comcast . . . . . . . Konami . . . . . . . . . . . . . Riot

Wildheaven182Feb 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Scale of Morality in Customer Treatment:

EA . . . . Ubisoft . . . . . . . Comcast . . . . . . . Konami . . . . . . . . . . . . . Riot

Nexon should be in here somewhere

OurLestradeJan 15, 20162 votes

I still think it'd be cool if they suddenly made the next big pro game championship or whatever it's called (I avoid that stuff like the plague, forgive me) be in Dominion just to shake things up. Dominion's my favourite game mode and one of my favourite bits in the lore, so I want it to at least get some sponsorship :O

RebonackJan 15, 20161 votes

What steams me the most is that the health of the map could be improved considerably just be giving us a single Blind Draft queue.

I don't think anyone's feelings would be hurt if they never had to see back-capped AP Shaco ever again.

TheLittlestLuluFeb 10, 20161 votes

Well hey what do you know Riot is deleting Dominion

TheLittlestLuluFeb 10, 20161 votes

yep though gj riot