being forced to fight under tower is a bad way of designing an enemy champion.

AR URF·Dec 17, 2018·24 votes·12,489 views

Thoughts?

I'll let you decide who the culprits are.

23 Comments

Dr DogDec 17, 201817 votes

Darius Pantheon arguably some of the least interactive top laners in the game and the least fun to fight, hyper dominate laners should have to hit their skillshot or have them in the first place, darius can miss everything and still easily out trade you, and panth just doesnt have any mechanically challenging parts of his kit to begin with, all point and click

LordGeovanniDec 18, 20183 votes

I dont find pantheon the least bid in interactive when defensive items hp5 is better and item 1006 builds into more items. Even now panth isnt a problem as i just pick a champion who uses attack speed they problem then is that i cant ever group because mages will one shot combo me and adcs with 2 second tap me from 400+ range.

KrynnˉDec 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXERGR9T,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-17T19:19:38.800+0000)

arguably some of the least interactive top laners in the game and the least fun to fight, hyper dominate laners should have to hit their skillshot or have them in the first place, darius can miss everything and still easily out trade you, and panth just doesnt have any mechanically challenging parts of his kit to begin with, all point and click

I do agree that Darius is an annoying champion, but if he misses Q he will most defiantly lose the trade against most top laners, and alot of top laners have ways of dodging his Q. I'll put a list of champions that Darius can get his ass kicked by.

Akali Irelia Camille Fiora Riven Renekton Quinn Lissandra Olaf

Dr DogDec 19, 20181 votes

if he misses his q all he has to do is braindead auto, 5 autos gives him a 200+ hp dot and 30+ extra ad, the amount of free stats he gets to hold his hand is stupid, if he wastes q you still have to go for a very short trade where hes usually gonna get a auto w auto off, point blank e you while your slowed and running, auto two more times then q again you you just lost the trade even if you only wanted to try to go for a short one

KrynnˉDec 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXERGR9T,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-12-19T06:10:36.276+0000)

if he misses his q all he has to do is braindead auto, 5 autos gives him a 200+ hp dot and 30+ extra ad, the amount of free stats he gets to hold his hand is stupid, if he wastes q you still have to go for a very short trade where hes usually gonna get a auto w auto off, point blank e you while your slowed and running, auto two more times then q again you you just lost the trade even if you only wanted to try to go for a short one

Darius will never get 5 stacks against Riven or Renekton... All they have to do is engage on him do a short trade then stun him before dashing out to prevent getting E'd back in, in addition to this he has no attack speed scaling and missing Q means he'll MAYBE get 3 autos off before ether of these 2 finish trading against him.

Braindead autoing isn't going to do anything for Darius, he needs to hit his abilities, and continue to be in auto range of someone which will be near impossible against anyone with a dash and some CC.

To be completely honest with you, Darius really isn't a good champion at all lol. There are so many lane bullies that do his job better AND are useful outside of lane phase.

Critmaster GarenDec 17, 201814 votes

being forced to play at your tower isnt the problem.

the problem is that riot punishes this playstile increasingly harder without giving us alternatives. the high value on turret plating is one example how your opponent can get 800 gold now even when hes unable to kill you, and just pokes at your turret. this benefits especially ranged champions in melee matchups.

the new Akali is another example of a champion who can bully you under your own turret if youre not playing a champion who directly counters her.

the result is, that the game becomes more heavily counterpick oriented, and there are very little ways to deal with an early lane disadvantage. the usual play to getting counterpicked was always to play safe at your turret and scale. with turret plating this became a lot less viable in a lot of matchups.

AR URFDec 17, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXERGR9T,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-17T19:16:37.951+0000)

being forced to play at your tower isnt the problem.

the problem is that riot punishes this playstile increasingly harder without giving us alternatives. the high value on turret plating is one example how your opponent can get 800 gold now even when hes unable to kill you, and just pokes at your turret. this benefits especially ranged champions in melee matchups.

the new is another example of a champion who can bully you under your own turret if youre not playing a champion who directly counters her.

the result is, that the game becomes more heavily counterpick oriented, and there are very little ways to deal with an early lane disadvantage. the usual play to getting counterpicked was always to play safe at your turret and scale. with turret plating this became a lot less viable in a lot of matchups.

I totally agree completely. It's like the whole reason Blitzcrank was created, or at least i think the reason, was so that you can pull whoever it is under the tower to help the adc get a kill. Now it seems like it's more punishing if you were to pull, say Zed or Akali of course.

chipndip1Dec 17, 20187 votes

Thoughts: You got bodied and you're mad about it.

AR URFDec 17, 201821 votes

{quoted}

Thoughts: You got bodied and you're mad about it.

Nice assuming.

chipndip1Dec 17, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXERGR9T,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-17T19:10:58.933+0000)

Nice assuming.

You asked while giving no context. I was kind enough to answer despite this.

AR URFDec 17, 201818 votes

{quoted}

You asked while giving no context. I was kind enough to answer despite this.

Even so, you're not being constructive at all. You're just trying to provoke people.

OHminusDec 18, 20185 votes

kind enough

Your definition of kind is what I imagine Shou Tucker's to be.

Hayaishi2Dec 18, 20184 votes

Heimerdinger ?

AR URFDec 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

?

yeah, but his turrets don't exactly focus you unless there are no minions around and he lands his stuff.

TheSingularityDec 18, 20182 votes

And even then, if you know how to handle a heimer the situation reverses and the heim tilt feeds you because his camp cheese strat isn't working, resulting in him having zero lane priority and kill pressure (he becomes an ult E bot). (that and he has a crap tonne of counters who're stronger than him atm like malz, kass, karth, cass, ahri, neeko, anivia to name a few. My personal fave is the bird in that match up)

MarshbouyDec 19, 20183 votes

Caitlyn MissFortune

AR URFDec 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ezreal

DNGSkittyDec 18, 20182 votes

Fizz Darius Garen Akali Pantheon Zed Yasuo

FéliXXXDec 18, 20181 votes

you are always so funny on ur posts LOL

AR URFDec 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

you are always so funny on ur posts LOL

that's because I'm a season 3 player seeing this game fall apart. It's frustrating.

FéliXXXDec 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXERGR9T,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-12-18T18:41:58.854+0000)

that's because I'm a season 3 player seeing this game fall apart. It's frustrating.

lvl 200 s3 player still silver maybe dont you think you just dont understand the game?

AR URFDec 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

lvl 200 s3 player still silver maybe dont you think you just dont understand the game?

silver 1. I was gold, but mmr is fucked up right now.

DarkTree1Dec 19, 20181 votes

ability to create pressure in lane via dodgable skillshots, counterplayable engages, etc - good, reasonable. usually has to be compensated by something like a weak lategame and/or teamfight to compensate for lane dominance.

point and click dashes, resourceless or low mana cost low cooldown harass, or just general zoning by proxxy of champion existing and the threat of you getting into their Death Circle meaning a free trip to base: - terrible, unhealthy. worse is that champions like this are typically not gated by weaker lategames, and instead only get stronger even if they somehow fuck up their free lane phase

irelia - still in the game lol

examples of both: Olaf Urgot (urgot conceptually) for the first, Kennen Viktor and stuff like Jax Pantheon for the second. panth pseudo-counts because of his weak late. E. stop giving people with oppressive lane phases good or even best of class lategames riot, that's not how it's supposed to work