Assasins are bad huh? lets see how much armor penetration they can have

Phuc Dat Bich·Nov 29, 2015·1 votes·904 views

19 Flat from runes 30 flat from 14 Flat from the precision mastery (In the next patch they buff it so now it would provide 5 + 0.5 per lvl) So Assasins can have 63 FLAT armor penetration But wait there is more + 30% ARMOR Reduction + 40% Bonus armor penetration +15% Extra Damage if a target have 500 more hp

So tell me again how much "Gutted" is the assasins or how much they cant deal with base Armor values any more

Because having 33 armor flat penetration AT 0 GOLD COST is too good

34 Comments

YuGiHoNov 29, 20152 votes

This only applies to Zed and talon tho....there are ap assassins maw and ghost blade is only 20 not 30 the precision mastery scales with lv so you dont even reach that amount til you are 18 Where is 33 flat armor pen for 0 gold even coming from?

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This only applies to Zed and talon tho....there are ap assassins maw and ghost blade is only 20 not 30 the precision mastery scales with lv so you dont even reach that amount til you are 18 Where is 33 flat armor pen for 0 gold even coming from?

Yommus provide 20 armor penetration and MAW 10 i guess 10 +20 =20.......your math are real...

33 Flat from 19 from runes +14 from masteries because the last time i check runes and masteries arent worth any gold...

Void NargacugaNov 29, 20151 votes

item 3156 Does provide 10 Armor Pen, and item 3142 does provide 20 Armor Pen as a unique passive. This part is correct at least.

And yeah this only for AD assassins.

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HWqe5Vqo,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2015-11-29T08:02:29.035+0000)

Does provide 10 Armor Pen, and does provide 20 Armor Pen as a unique passive. This part is correct at least.

And yeah this only for AD assassins.

AP assasins lets see

item 3151 15+ item 3020 +15 + 20 from runes + 14 from masteries + item 3001 + item 3135

So pretty much AP assasins can have

64 FLAT Magic penetration

20Flat Magic ressist REMOVAL

35% Magic penetration

LajneenNov 29, 20152 votes

A full armor penetration rune page (which is extremely useless early game), Maw (terrible item on most Assassins), Ghostblade and masteries gives 57 flat armor penetration at level 18 for 6450 gold.

Meanwhile old Last Whisper and Ghostblade alone gave around 50 flat armor penetration against the average ADCs base armor at level 18 for 5100 gold while also leaving room to build items that are actually useful on Assassins instead of garbage like Maw, BC and current LW.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A full armor penetration rune page (which is extremely useless early game), Maw (terrible item on most Assassins), Ghostblade and masteries gives 57 flat armor penetration at level 18 for 6450 gold.

Meanwhile old Last Whisper and Ghostblade alone gave around 50 flat armor penetration against the average ADCs base armor at level 18 for 5100 gold while also leaving room to build items that are actually useful on Assassins instead of garbage like Maw, BC and current LW.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

oh i dont know that Yommus and BC are useless on assasins now (When KHA and Rengar And talon AND zed core item is BC) we just found who is the one that have no idea what is talking about

And how MAW is useless? have you see the new MAW? is what you need to survive your all in and out and now it provide you with good combat stats

But your bronze mind is "like oh no i need to only build L.W and melt everyone rito now give me more items but i dont want to build them because i dont like them" with that brain you aint go gonna climb out of bronze trust me!!!

And Penetration on Talon that have one of the most lower AD ratios on his E is actually better than full AD page but then again like i say you cant understand how the game goes!

And L.W maybe is not that strong as it was but the old L.W was RETARDED because you could ignore 12k of armor items with a 2.5k one single item

If that in your brain was balanced then screw it why do i even bother with you

LajneenNov 29, 20151 votes

Let's compare some offensive stats between pre-update and post-update.

Your build post-update: Rengar item 1400 item 3142 item 3036 item 3156 item 3071 270 AD 25% attack speed when below 30% health 10% lifesteal and spellvamp when below 30% health 0% critical strike chance 0% increased critical damage 30 flat armor penetration 40% bonus armor penetration (0 flat armor penetration against base armor) 40% cooldown reduction 30% armor reduction after dealing physical damage 6 times Active that grants 40% attack speed and 20% movement speed for 6 seconds 15275 gold

A decent build pre-update: Rengar item 1400 item 3142 item 3035 item 3031 item 3074 270 AD 0% attack speed 12% lifesteal 35% critical strike chance 50% increased critical damage 30 flat armor penetration 35% total armor penetration (minimum 25 flat armor penetration against base armor @lvl 18) 20% cooldown reduction (could easily get 40% with masteries + boots/runes) Ability that deals 100% of your AD as AOE physical damage and passive that makes your basic attacks deal 60% of your AD as AOE physical damage Active that grants 40% attack speed and 20% movement speed for 6 seconds 14350 gold

The offensive stats from your build (not counting Black Cleaver's passive, Ghostblade's active and Lord Dominik's passive against a target with bonus armor and health) are worth 10770 gold and 12170 gold when below 30% health. The offensive stats from my build (not counting Infinity Edge's passive, Ghostblade's active, Last Whisper's passive against a target with bonus armor and Hydra's passive and active) are worth 13220 gold at all times.

It's pretty god damn obvious which build is superior here. Not only is your build much less useful, but it's also much more expensive and less gold efficient. I could use the way more gold efficient pre-update Black Cleaver instead of Hydra, but the passive isn't efficient on burst damage Assassins and the CDR is a waste of stats.

I don't even know why I bothered explaining this to you. I'm dealing with someone who says I don't understand the game and claims Talon has an AD ratio on his E in the same sentence.

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Let's compare some offensive stats between pre-update and post-update.

Your build post-update: 270 AD 25% attack speed when below 30% health 10% lifesteal and spellvamp when below 30% health 0% critical strike chance 0% increased critical damage > 30 flat armor penetration 40% bonus armor penetration (0 flat armor penetration against base armor) 40% cooldown reduction 30% armor reduction after dealing physical damage 6 times Active that grants 40% attack speed and 20% movement speed for 6 seconds 15275 gold

A decent build pre-update: 270 AD 0% attack speed 12% lifesteal 35% critical strike chance 50% increased critical damage 30 flat armor penetration 35% total armor penetration (minimum 25 flat armor penetration against base armor @lvl 18) 20% cooldown reduction (could easily get 40% with masteries + boots/runes) Ability that deals 100% of your AD as AOE physical damage and passive that makes your basic attacks deal 60% of your AD as AOE physical damage Active that grants 40% attack speed and 20% movement speed for 6 seconds 14350 gold

The offensive stats from your build (not counting Black Cleaver's passive, Ghostblade's active and Lord Dominik's passive against a target with bonus armor and health) are worth 10770 gold and 12170 gold when below 30% health. The offensive stats from my build (not counting Infinity Edge's passive, Ghostblade's active, Last Whisper's passive against a target with bonus armor and Hydra's passive and active) are worth 13220 gold at all times.

It's pretty god damn obvious which build is superior here. Not only is your build much less useful, but it's also much more expensive and less gold efficient. I could use the way more gold efficient pre-update Black Cleaver instead of Hydra, but the passive isn't efficient on burst damage Assassins and the CDR is a waste of stats.

I don't even know why I bothered explaining this to you. I'm dealing with someone who says I don't understand the game and claims Talon has an AD ratio on his E in the same sentence.

30 flat armor penetration>63FLAT penetration

And BC was and is a core item for rengar before preseason and after preseason and actually now provide more damage and a better build path for an assasin you dumb bronze!!

And why you dont build Hydra on the first build? and why you dont use the 15% increase damage when someone have 500 more hp?

And talon dosent have AD ratio huh? i guess talon now is AP the more you know i guess pls tell us more...

LajneenNov 29, 20151 votes

I'll just assume you're trolling at this point, no one can be this stupid.

Void NargacugaNov 29, 20151 votes

Correction: item 3071 Reduces armor (my guess is total) by up to 30%

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Void NargacugaNov 29, 20151 votes

Reduction is different then Penetration. Reduction does what it says: It reduces the enemies armor, when you hit them with any physical damage, and anyone on your team can benefit from the reduction since it reduces their effective armor and its shown on their stats. It might also make item 3035 & upgrades less effective as well. But I am unsure. Penetration means you ignore X amount of armor. Like how item 3142 has +20 Armor pen which means you just ignore 20 armor when calculating damage, that is all. I hope I'm clearing up the differences for you.

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HWqe5Vqo,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T07:49:47.566+0000)

Reduction is different then Penetration. Reduction does what it says: It reduces the enemies armor, when you hit them with any physical damage, and anyone on your team can benefit from the reduction since it reduces their effective armor and its shown on their stats. It might also make & upgrades less effective as well. But I am unsure. Penetration means you ignore X amount of armor. Like how has +20 Armor pen which means you just ignore 20 armor when calculating damage, that is all. I hope I'm clearing up the differences for you.

Still they have a lot of options for penetration and reduction

Having 63 FLAT armor penetration

+30% Armor reduction you can actually start deal TRUE damage to someone

Because if someone have 100 armor and reduce the 30% with black cleaver you let him with 70 armor now your 63 FLAT armor penetration start the working so you let him with 7 armor......and if you use L.W and you destroy the 40% of his bonus armor (which may be the 9 armor from runes the remain 7 you take away 3 armor more) so you let a target with 100 armor with 4 armor

And they say that ASSASINS dont have a way to kill targets because L.W is now on bonus armor....

Void NargacugaNov 29, 20151 votes

This is very confusing logic to me... PLEASE explain where ALL the armor PENETRATION that you grabbed comes from besides Maw and Ghostblade.

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HWqe5Vqo,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T08:10:18.414+0000)

This is very confusing logic to me... PLEASE explain where ALL the armor PENETRATION that you grabbed comes from besides Maw and Ghostblade.

runes and masteries

runes provide 19 FLAT penetration

And the mastery provide 14 FLAT penetration (5 at + 0.5 per lvl) so at lvl 18 it would provide 14 armor penetration (AT lvl 1 you would have +5 flat armor penetration at lvl 18 you will have 14 armor penetration)

Void NargacugaNov 29, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vârg Vikernes,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HWqe5Vqo,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T08:12:50.893+0000)

And the mastery provide 14 FLAT penetration (5 at + 0.5 per lvl) so at lvl 18 it would provide 14 armor penetration (AT lvl 1 you would have +5 flat armor penetration at lvl 18 you will have 14 armor penetration)

That isn't even live yet. As of right now: Precision at lvl 18 provides 8.4 Penetration.

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HWqe5Vqo,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T08:21:06.289+0000)

That isn't even live yet. As of right now: Precision at lvl 18 provides 8.4 Penetration.

as i say on my original post (IN THE NEXT patch) it getting buffed

Void NargacugaNov 29, 20152 votes

When you said earlier about assassins having lots of options for Penetration and Reduction. Complete Flat Armor Penetration Items: item 3142 item 3156 Complete % Bonus Armor Penetration items: item 3036 item 3033 Only Armor Reduction Item: item 3071

And now for AP users. Complete Flat MR Penetration items: item 3020 item 3151 Only % MR Penetration item: item 3135 Only MR Reduction item: item 3001 (only within a certain radius)

I think this is where the problem lies for most people. Don't quote me though. I may have made some mistakes. I'm only human.

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HWqe5Vqo,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T08:40:20.597+0000)

When you said earlier about assassins having lots of options for Penetration and Reduction. Complete Flat Armor Penetration Items: Complete % Bonus Armor Penetration items: Only Armor Reduction Item:

And now for AP users. Complete Flat MR Penetration items: Only % MR Penetration item: Only MR Reduction item: (only within a certain radius)

I think this is where the problem lies for most people. Don't quote me though. I may have made some mistakes. I'm only human.

4 items for AD and 4 items for AP how the AP users have more options? like what are you saying?

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HWqe5Vqo,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T08:40:20.597+0000)

When you said earlier about assassins having lots of options for Penetration and Reduction. Complete Flat Armor Penetration Items: Complete % Bonus Armor Penetration items: Only Armor Reduction Item:

And now for AP users. Complete Flat MR Penetration items: Only % MR Penetration item: Only MR Reduction item: (only within a certain radius)

I think this is where the problem lies for most people. Don't quote me though. I may have made some mistakes. I'm only human.

4 items for AD and 4 items for AP how the AP users have more options? like what are you saying?

pripustasNov 29, 20153 votes

Stop spamming nonsense about 30% armor reduction. You have to attack the target 6 times. 6 TIMES to apply 30% armor reduction. You know assassins job is to delete in 1second, right?

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Stop spamming nonsense about 30% armor reduction. You have to attack the target 6 times. 6 TIMES to apply 30% armor reduction. You know assassins job is to delete in 1second, right?

Attack?

Zed Talon

Their abilities apply black cleaver passive and talon Q actually is a bleed so one Q from talon and the target would take the full 6 ticks from Black Cleaver

I like how you people try to make assasins look weak when you dont even know their kit and how the item interact with them....

Its kinda sad

Edge of DaybreakNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vârg Vikernes,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HWqe5Vqo,comment-id=000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-29T08:13:30.962+0000)

Attack?

Their abilities apply black cleaver passive and talon Q actually is a bleed so one Q from talon and the target would take the full 6 ticks from Black Cleaver

I like how you people try to make assasins look weak when you dont even know their kit and how the item interact with them....

Its kinda sad

You do realize that you aren't gonna wait the 6 seconds for bleed to go through right? At best you are gonna get in 2 autos 1 tick of bleed and then W + R with R being used at the 30% reduction. They aren't just starting this at 30% and no waiting 6 seconds for max stacks is far from realistic.

The reason it sucks now is because its harder to get that pen early which is when it matters since you have to snowball. With whisper only penetrating Bonus Armor your targets are always going to have more armor than before meaning you always deal less damage. If I build literally every pen item in the game then my Total ad is gonna be low, then health is gonna wreck me anyway. By the time I even have the 4 items you need to get that pen that enemy tank/bruiser can survive me and ADC can have near 100 % crit and just 3-4 shot you. Assassins still work but yes they are far weaker than before. Also I forgot this but it cost more gold for less pen than before.

pripustasNov 29, 20151 votes

I like how you have absolutely no idea about how assassins work, and try to explain everyone. Yes, every skill applies cleaver stacks. But guess what? Talon You use Q- apply 1 stack, use W- apply 1 stack 2 times, but the bonus damage from cleaver on your W damage is 1 stack. So by using 2 skills you get 0 bonus damage from cleaver, apply 1 stack, get 1 stack worth of bonus damage, apply stack, get 2 stacks worth of bonus damage on return of W and apply 3 stacks. So unless you go to your enemy, auto attack them 6 times and then use your combo, there is no fucking 30% armor pen on your combo from BC. Your input is worth >0 on this matter. You don't even play assassins.

Phuc Dat BichNov 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I like how you have absolutely no idea about how assassins work, and try to explain everyone. Yes, every skill applies cleaver stacks. But guess what? You use Q- apply 1 stack, use W- apply 1 stack 2 times, but the bonus damage from cleaver on your W damage is 1 stack. So by using 2 skills you get 0 bonus damage from cleaver, apply 1 stack, get 1 stack worth of bonus damage, apply stack, get 2 stacks worth of bonus damage on return of W and apply 3 stacks. So unless you go to your enemy, auto attack them 6 times and then use your combo, there is no fucking 30% armor pen on your combo from BC.

You use Q- apply 1 stack I STOP reading there the bronze is real with you

pripustasNov 29, 20151 votes

You don't even have games as Talon. Guess who's opinion is worthless (yours)