I played against a Ziggs bot today and I have no clue why anyone approves of this.

Rock MD··3 votes·2,052 views

To preface this; here is the game in question.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2388934989/207632867

Yeah I know. Troll game of normals with a Teemo support and an Ezreal top. Probably doesn't mean much but since I luckily play some Ziggs and can analyze it a little more effectively than most people here's my thoughts on it.

Laning phase - you know how nobody likes Karma lanes because you get poked out? How about that Karma/Cait lane, eh? That's what Ziggs is essentially capable of doing. A lot of people exaggerate a bit when they say it's impossible to lane Ziggs Q. The trick is to know how to land the first bounce (still nears 1k range) on a target or hit a minion next to the person. The issue is with someone who can zone them off the minions, it leaves Karma open to hit them with her RQ. That, of course, means Ziggs can drop his kit on the CC'd target. It's very overwhelming damage when Ziggs synergizes with someone and for a forum that has such an issue with Caitlyn I'm surprised they're encouraging this.

Naturally, he got first tower and had a huge gold advantage on our adc who had a little over half his cs when he had 75. His pushing is just really strong and tends to overwhelm most marksmen while opening his support up for easy opportunities to poke/cc.

Grouping - After first blood, he rotated mid and got a very easy tower. It was impossible to push against their team because of their waveclear and killing them was difficult because I had to be mindful of Syndra R or Kindred R. What worries me is Ziggs getting an actual support with support items because they do just as much as Teemo did but been able to keep him safe. He's already extremely far away from combat but with the shields, heals, and Redemption that nullify assassins he would've been outright untouchable. Even when we had a ~10k gold lead, we had to get baron to viably push against them.


TL;DR I play Ziggs because he's obnoxious and safe. Being in this lane exacerbates both qualities to degrees that adc and support mains hate. You don't like Jinx or Cait? Ziggs does what both of them do by mindlessly pushing, eating towers, and snowballing off that with very little you can do to stop them. On top of that he's got a support and he can use AP itemization, and he doesn't have a particular fall off point mid that allows you to group up and dick him the same way you can do that to adcs. I've already played 1 game of juke the endless waveclear - by Syndra and Ziggs and I'm already sick of it.

11 Comments

Mordepool3 votes

Weaknesses He is very mana dependent. He's terribly squishy. His only escape is a skills shot He has a long cool down on his passive

He has long cool downs in general aside from Q

Rock MD2 votes

{quoted}

Weaknesses He is very mana dependent. He's terribly squishy. His only escape is a skills shot He has a long cool down on his passive

He has long cool downs in general aside from Q

  1. Ziggs is not that mana dependent and has not been since the Morello changes and his Q got a mana cost reduction.
  2. Yes he's squishy but did you not hear the part where I said that having a support covers his weaknesses? On top of that every marksman ever is squishy. It doesn't change things.
  3. His W is not hard to position if you've played even a moderate amount of Ziggs.
  4. It's 12 seconds that drops by 4 seconds when you toss an ability.
ofart1 votes

{quoted}

Weaknesses He is very mana dependent. He's terribly squishy. His only escape is a skills shot He has a long cool down on his passive

He has long cool downs in general aside from Q

He's also 100% skillshot reliant and nothing has changed about him in nearly a year.

It's not Ziggs that's the problem but I guess the turret execute could be toned down early in exchange for some higher AP scaling on W's damage to champions or some other tweak.

RexSaur3 votes

The fact ppl complain about Caitlyn and not the cancer that is bot ziggs shows how full of biased low elo players this forum is.

Also kat is insanely broken right now aswell and i barely see anybody talking about it, but ppl STILL complain about vayne here.

Aptest1 votes

Good.

doublelift fg1 votes

varus shen bot lane?

give me a proper bot lane and ziggs won't be able to farm

bot lane ziggs is garbage, at least above diamond where people kill him at level 2 i honestly have no clue how imqt managed to not die with him

Rock MD1 votes

[{quoted}](name=doublelift fg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HVM9RAJY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-02T08:38:51.205+0000)

varus shen bot lane?

give me a proper bot lane and ziggs won't be able to farm

bot lane ziggs is garbage, at least above diamond where people kill him at level 2 i honestly have no clue how imqt managed to not die with him

i mean Shiphtur is #5 in NA and he's the reason it exists now. He beat a Challenger Thresh/Twitch is that not proper enough for you?

Then he shit on imaqtpie on Vayne w/ a Karma support.

To argue Ziggs isn't one of the better bot laners right now is silly.

doublelift fg1 votes

this dude knows what he's doing then, but you aren't in challenger, people in diamond5 aren't beasts, you can easily punish heir mistake especially if they try to play something they don't know

because i played against a ziggs botlane and he died non-stop to brand+jhin

Rock MD1 votes

[{quoted}](name=doublelift fg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HVM9RAJY,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-02T08:52:25.963+0000)

this dude knows what he's doing then, but you aren't in challenger, people in diamond5 aren't beasts, you can easily punish heir mistake especially if they try to play something they don't know

because i played against a ziggs botlane and he died non-stop to brand+jhin

The issue isn't something they don't know I just posted a game where the guy played something he doesn't know in the slightest and it turned out to be obnoxious and unenjoyable.

Once Ziggs gets played by someone even moderately comfortable with him I'm saying I anticipate it'll turn into a shitfest and I wanna know why people want this. It's essentially the worst of Cait and Jinx.

doublelift fg1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chairman Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HVM9RAJY,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-02T08:59:30.183+0000) Once Ziggs gets played by someone even moderately comfortable with him I'm saying I anticipate it'll turn into a shitfest and I wanna know why people want this. It's essentially the worst of Cait and Jinx.

alright, let me play against a ziggs bot lane that is comfortable with him then

vampirekid131 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chairman Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HVM9RAJY,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-02T08:29:45.460+0000)

for a forum that has such an issue with Caitlyn I'm surprised they're encouraging this.

you misunderstand how much resentment and hate this forum has for ADCs.

i mean, we absolutely despise ADCs. ADCs are a mandatory class every game. everyone else has to play more than one class, mage main? bet you were playing khazix in season 4 in mid lane since mages were extinct back then, assassin main? bet you were playing mages in s2 and 5. tank main? you were playing fighters in season 4 for sure. and so on, however, ADCs are mandatory. and this forum absolutely hates them.

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