After three 
in a row I'd really like to get a chance to actually play the game instead of babysitting this boring champion. Can't chase him and can't fight 1v1. I just sit under turret and clear waves. Boring.
[slayer-jinx-unamused]
Downvote away!
MunchCrunchLunch30 voteshow do you rework them when ranged carries are superior to melees which forces melees to not team fight?
Hayaishi23 voteshow do you rework them when ranged carries are superior to melees which forces melees to not team fight?
Yi seems to do alright.
NichtHurz24 votesAnd since when is Yi good in teamfights? He's good at cleaning up, but against a proper teamcomp Yi doesn't do much in a teamfight.
Hayaishi22 votesAnd since when is Yi good in teamfights? He's good at cleaning up, but against a proper teamcomp Yi doesn't do much in a teamfight.
It's not about being good in teamfights is about being useful outside of "mindlessly splitpushing" Which is something Yi is.
Troll for Trump2 votesHe can only splitpush or clean up. That's it.
Trynd does the same thing.
Nasus can do it too, although worse than the former two.
The only champions who can "just splitpush" can't clean up or teamfight.
Best example would be Aatrox. Besides him, none of the other champs are really lane splitpush zombies. Mundo, too, maybe. Or Heimer.
crippler381 votesmundo at least can run at the squishies and make them waste time on him though
Nami in Bush1 votesAnd since when is Yi good in teamfights? He's good at cleaning up, but against a proper teamcomp Yi doesn't do much in a teamfight.
Apparently you haven't seen a Diamond Yi. Pretty cancerous.
LadyRenly13 voteshow else are we supposed to win if our team is a potato
dunder kill12 votesKind of feels the same as 
tbh. The only way to effectively play is to not play with anyone else. Don't even lane against anyone. Just proxy farm all day.
So anti-fun to play against. Just farm minions under your turret while he proxies you. Watch your turret get whittled away little by little every wave. Such engaging gameplay
TwinkiePro3 votesRoam. Fuck your turret, no need to babysit. If you fuck up his team then there is no point to what he's doing. He does this to waste the enemies time. If you are content clearing waves, get a tiamat, but you have to roam. If 2 or more people try to stop him, that's a free objective for his team.
Carnerox1 votesRoam. Fuck your turret, no need to babysit. If you fuck up his team then there is no point to what he's doing. He does this to waste the enemies time. If you are content clearing waves, get a tiamat, but you have to roam. If 2 or more people try to stop him, that's a free objective for his team.
Why would you even roam vs Singed?
Just pick someone who outscales him and enjoy the uncontested free farm. Decent mechanics on any ad champion should mean that you miss almost no minions to the turret.
TwinkiePro1 votesYou would still need to contest objectives is my point. If his team is dead, his proxy is pointless. Also, singed has an easier time getting farm than most any one else. You are totally welcome to last hit under turret, but something is going to take damage, whether its you or your turret, so singed is still winning lane.
Secondly, roaming is very important, yet difficult. If Singed pulls a double proxy for himself and his midlaner, his midlaner is free to roam bot, which means if something big goes down, you might have to burn a tp to bot lane. If any of your allies tries to stop singed, that's a man down who can't be bot.
A good singed is difficult to deal with, simply because he can waste your time so efficiently. Any time you spend trying to deal with him his team can take objectives with little contest. Any time spent ignoring him is free pressure on 1 or all the lane, not to mentions 1 or 2 waves for free at the price of one. Without minions, you are hardpressed to get drag or baron simply because a tower or two is going to take hard damage.
Outscaling is fine, just understand if you ignore singed, he will be more fed than you on farm alone. On average I acheive 250 farm before 30, 300 if I play it right, which is outstanding in my Silver elo; I would expect better from higher elo.
tl;dr: kill his teammates, then him. Win.
Carnerox1 votesYou would still need to contest objectives is my point. If his team is dead, his proxy is pointless. Also, singed has an easier time getting farm than most any one else. You are totally welcome to last hit under turret, but something is going to take damage, whether its you or your turret, so singed is still winning lane.
Secondly, roaming is very important, yet difficult. If Singed pulls a double proxy for himself and his midlaner, his midlaner is free to roam bot, which means if something big goes down, you might have to burn a tp to bot lane. If any of your allies tries to stop singed, that's a man down who can't be bot.
A good singed is difficult to deal with, simply because he can waste your time so efficiently. Any time you spend trying to deal with him his team can take objectives with little contest. Any time spent ignoring him is free pressure on 1 or all the lane, not to mentions 1 or 2 waves for free at the price of one. Without minions, you are hardpressed to get drag or baron simply because a tower or two is going to take hard damage.
Outscaling is fine, just understand if you ignore singed, he will be more fed than you on farm alone. On average I acheive 250 farm before 30, 300 if I play it right, which is outstanding in my Silver elo; I would expect better from higher elo.
tl;dr: kill his teammates, then him. Win.
If you're competent at farming under turret with an ad champion, you shouldn't miss much if any farm at all. And if you outscale, then you will rapidly get to the point that you can clear the wave and then contest his proxy. Uncontested free farm should be 10 cs per minute after 2 minutes, so at 30 minutes you need 280 farm, you can increase this number by supplementing with multiple lanes or jungle camps as well.
It doesn't matter if his minions attack the turret because during the majority of time they're hitting it, your turret has the fortification buff so it takes very minimal damage. On top of that, you really don't need to roam. Even if he pulls off or attempts to pull off a double proxy, which is basically impossible due to minion aggro changes done a few patches ago (Minions don't aggro nearly as fast on way to lane) at that point it's super easy to stop him because the area he can run is very limited, so chasing and killing him isn't nearly as difficult.
Honestly singed is just garbage. He doesn't scale hard enough to justify his risks and isn't as useful as other tanks by a long shot.
TwinkiePro1 votesOkay, firstly, double proxy isnt impossible. I can pull it off 90% of the time.
And trying to stop him is what he wants you to do, I even stated that. You are literally wasting time to stop him, which means you aren't getting xp or gold unless you kill him, and the longer you take the worse it is for you.
you can call him trash all you want, but he isn't supposed to fight, its part of his kit. He's a great engage and pick tank, but his entire kit is designed for you to chase him, and when you do, you are doing what he wants 80% of the time.
As for justifying the risk, that depends LIKE I STATED ABOVE. If 2 or more people try to stop him, thats an objective.
Carnerox1 votesOkay, firstly, double proxy isnt impossible. I can pull it off 90% of the time.
And trying to stop him is what he wants you to do, I even stated that. You are literally wasting time to stop him, which means you aren't getting xp or gold unless you kill him, and the longer you take the worse it is for you.
you can call him trash all you want, but he isn't supposed to fight, its part of his kit. He's a great engage and pick tank, but his entire kit is designed for you to chase him, and when you do, you are doing what he wants 80% of the time.
As for justifying the risk, that depends LIKE I STATED ABOVE. If 2 or more people try to stop him, thats an objective.
Yeah I'm done with this conversation because you are incapable of reading what I'm saying.
You don't bother with singed. You accept the free farm, ignore him, and outscale him because he is useless compared to the rest of his team. Double proxying is difficult to manage because of the aggro changes and even if he does, he takes cs from the rest of his team while giving lane control to your other laners.
Even if he proxies, he's fucking trash.
TwinkiePro1 votesMaybe you should try singed before you throw him out. You probably play GP and that's why you are in this mindset.
Trash or not, there are dedicated OTPs in diamond+ that make him work, so your opinion is hard to accept.
Carnerox1 votesMaybe you should try singed before you throw him out. You probably play GP and that's why you are in this mindset.
Trash or not, there are dedicated OTPs in diamond+ that make him work, so your opinion is hard to accept.
I play Singed and I have played him.
The minion aggro makes his double proxy untenable because you lose half of each wave in most cases.
The easiest way to deal with singed is to pick an outscaling champion and free farm, ignore him. He WILL be gutter trash in the late game, only use is flipping people and being tanky, and there are plenty of ways to bust tanks this game, Armor pen items are overtuned, LDR, etc. Singed will be shredded late game by any ADC.
Just because dedicated OTPs can make him work doesn't mean that he's necessarily viable or remotely strong. They're just extremely good at that champion, even if they are trash.
But yeah, if I'm playing GP, Jax, Nasus, Trynd, etc, I will never lose to a Singed if they proxy. Because my farm means more, I outscale, and any Singed that proxies against those champions is an idiot.
Singed isn't always supposed to proxy. There's something to be said about TANK CDR max E singed. It's actually really strong and lets you roam much stronger in the mid game if you have team members that can follow it up, and is one of the few sources of consistent damage that Singed has. Or better yet, Play Maokai who has almost as much chase potential while being way more useful. Or Gnar. Or any decent top laner.
Catastrop2 votesNot only that, he's a literal waste of time. You try to react to his spilt and he either spots you and executes himself denying you the gold and wasting your time, or just stalls to the point that you'd been better off farming a lane.
Teridax6810 votesTryndamere needs a rework for many more reasons than just his splitpushing ability. His reliance on RNG makes him extremely difficult to balance, and leads to situations where one side feels like they won/lost on a coin flip (his early laning phase is especially messy/cheesy because of this), his combat style is extremely binary and often presents very few gameplay options for him and his opponent, and his contribution to his team is so generic and poorly defined that he basically cannot do much except splitpush. He just really needs to be updated to modern Skirmisher standards.
Nameless Voice1 votesAll of the above, and also that he completely misses his thematic mark.
He's supposed to be a raging barbarian hero who can get a heroic last wind to let him make an epic final stand when things look grim.
However, his actual gameplay makes him more of an inveterate coward who mostly uses his ultimate, spin and high movement speed to run away from fights and avoid his enemies, to focus on playing PvE somewhere else.
God Raijin8 votesSo basically, the original post is saying "can we rework any champion who is strong 1 v 1 and /or remove any kind of Damage per second type items from the game like 
because it lets people take towers quickly? Like honestly what do you actually expect/ want them to do? Rework,
? Or baiscally any champion that Builds AD, attack speed or can use 's sheen proc? Because I think that is just going too far, and it really isn't a well thought out plan. Not to mention that Riot has stated they want split pushing to be a legitimate alternative strategy to the standard "Everyone lane for 20 minutes, then lets all group up as 5 now" strategy.
WoonStruck4 votesHe didn't say splitpush champs. He said mindless split push champs.
That basically includes Fiora, Riven, Udyr, Trundle, and Tryn.
All of them can push pretty safely, have insane lane pressure if they're even slightly ahead (Udyr only mid-late from the jungle, though), and can take towers extremely quickly due to the builds they use. The weakest at actually pushing here is Fiora. The main thing is that none of these champs do decently in teamfights, so they do nothing but split push.
Being a champ that can split push is not the issue. Its being a champ that's extremely safe at splitpushing who can't do anything EXCEPT split push if they want to be even slightly reliable.
God Raijin2 votesYeah, but theoretically its a disadvantage if a champion can't teamfight and is only good at splitting (which means you are at an advantage and shouldn't be complaining) , But there are plenty of champs who can do both decently well (like trundle), and if a player playing that type of champion decides to go the route of mindlessly splitting rather than teamfighting, then it is really more like you want to stop/control a player's playstyle, rather than actually change a champion that point.
Zerenza2 votesAs a top laner (The lane you find these in) it can be very frustrating. Say i'm playing poppy or something and i'm the tank, my team needs me right? But Tryndamere is split pushing....like just imagine Poppy rolling her fucking eyes cause that's what i do constantly against champions like that. I have to constantly leave my team to stop them from getting an objective because i'm the only person who can actually stop them from split pushing. Anyone else will get killed because they aren't duelists and these champs do a lot of damage usually wasting my teleport or something. Not to mention champions such as Xin Zhao, Jax, Tryndamere, Udyr,Yasuo and Master Yi are just really boring and can actually be extremely frustrating if their ahead because they are still carries and build like an ADC so sometimes stopping them means dying yourself. It's just become a bit of unhealthy design and is a real flaw, i do think however that the next update is "Fighter/Diver" update so imagine these champions getting reworked and actually being fun to play and play against (i trust riot with reworks in most cases)
As a side note, Riven, Irelia and Fiora are not mindless split pusher's, a good riven, Irelia and fiora should be with their team. The only time you split push with them is when you know the enemy laner can't 1v1 you, either because your super far ahead or because they just aren't a good duelist but this is just literally a rule for top laner's, if your 6/0 before 15 minutes, just keeping pushing your lane, if they ignore you they lose and if they don't they lose map pressure.
Btw Zed, Nocturn and other Ad assassins, are assassins their job is to be alone and to assassinate stray targets. Especially with Zed, Nocturn is a diver so he should be with his team like a Diana or Ekko would be. Shaco is the only real AD assassin that likes to split push and is actually really effective at it.
Olaf, Shyvana, Shen,Vi and Trundle CAN split push but their primary role is as a tank/bruiser they should be with their team, like do you even know what these champions are supposed to do?
Like why the fuck is vayne here she's a goddamned ADC XD SHE SHOULD BE WITH HER TEAM! YOU MAKE NO SENSE!
AramsAreBest2 votesI do not have words for how wrong this is.
God Raijin1 votesYou seem to think "mindless split pusher" only applies to CHAMPIONS and not to PLAYERS. A PLAYER is what mindlessly split pushes WITH a champion and according to you champions like "olaf shyvana shen vi and trundle CAN split but should be with their team"
but now pretend that they magically turn into tryndamere for a minute and split rather than group, oh and they can magically turn back into themselves. SO WAIT they CAN group to teamfight OR they CAN mindlessly split! oh WAIT but can only do one of those things and is really shitty at the other.
I mean It's ALMOST like he has a disadvantageous part for having his kit or something....and that you need to complain about him having a part of his kit that makes him really bad at one thing in exchange to be good at another.
Sm0k3McCl0ud6 votescrippler381 votesnice booty
DunkinNoobs6 votesWe can rework champs like Trynd when champs like 
stop existing. Until then, we need to be able to split when the enemy team is loaded with champs you can't 5v5 against.
Xion The XIV2 votesI never really saw a problem with Tryndamere split pushing. He can take our 2 towers while we take his nexus. Even with his stupid 100% crit crap. He still can not out push a 5 or 4 man push against his 1.
Raoul1 votesYou realise Tryndamere also has a Team?
Xion The XIV1 votesWhich would leave a 4v5 and as Top lane is almost always Tank or tank type champions that means the team will most likely not have a tank. Unless the jungler went tank.
MLDzXnRRR3 votesFiora can't teamfight, I can't see what you can do with her outside of splitpushing. Trynda gets rekt by exhaust/stuns and you can run in circles around him when he ults, spamming emotes. Aatrox can teamfight, but his stats are too weak and he gets murdered pretty fast every time. Xin and Jax can teamfight, if they go with tanky builds and try to protect their backline; jumping into the enemy team mindlessly doesn't work anymore - all the meta champions usually have too much CC, mobility and kiting abilities,
Hinagiku331 votesCan confirm, Fiora's about as useful as Yi in a team fight. You can clean up, but you can't poke, initiate, disengage, and she has to build squishy so she easily gets taken out first if she's out of position. Her lack of wave-clear, weakness to kiting, and heavy reliance on praying her Vitals show up in the right position for her to reach them all hurt her pretty badly. You're honestly better off with Yi...and Yi isn't even good.
That's why everyone picks Yasuo and Ekko. Yasuo is strictly better as a Skirmisher than Fiora and Yi in every way. Ekko is a good Skirmisher if you want but is even better as an Off Tank and way more useful.
The only time I feel like I'm contributing as Fiora is when I grab Tiamat (because she has no wave clear) and split push every chance I get. What the Hell else is she supposed to do?
Carnerox2 votesIf you are unable to deal with a split pushing champion that's entirely because your macro play sucks. Split pushers like Trynd punish poor coordination or indecisiveness extremely hard, but if they are at all coordinated it's extremely difficult to do anything as trynd unless you are insanely fed.
Send three people top, kill his ass, then force baron.
That stops like 85% of split push bullshit.
Raoul1 votesAt the moment when you have to send 3 people top the Splitpusher can back away and he won, you wasted time in which 3 of your Champions didnt do anything, didnt get gold and didnt get Experience.
Plus, gg, one player just stopped your team from pushing the enemy base all alone.
We need better ways to respond to Splitpushers, plain and simple.
Carnerox1 votesAt the moment when you have to send 3 people top the Splitpusher can back away and he won, you wasted time in which 3 of your Champions didnt do anything, didnt get gold and didnt get Experience.
Plus, gg, one player just stopped your team from pushing the enemy base all alone.
We need better ways to respond to Splitpushers, plain and simple.
The way you deal with split pushers is one of two ways:
Catch them out and kill them, then force an objective while you have the numbers advantage;
Force the fight 5v4. If you just sit there at a turret and don't really accomplish anything, of course the split pusher is going to take turrets. Because you don't have the coordination or the balls to actually start the fight you can win.
Raoul3 votesIts kinda interessting that people always assume that the team of the splitpusher is either not existing or a bunch of incompetend idiots...
Carnerox1 votesIts kinda interessting that people always assume that the team of the splitpusher is either not existing or a bunch of incompetend idiots...
It really doesn't matter.
You have two options when dealing with a split pusher, because typically they cannot be 1v1ed.
You collapse and kill and use that to push, or you force a fight with the enemy team.
Period. Which you choose entirely depends on the match and the situation.
The only time a split pusher is successful is if you are retardedly indecisive or you choose the wrong one. if the enemy team is posed around baron, yeah don't go chase the tryndamere or singed. If you're all in mid and they are bot, just fucking force the 5v4 and win the fight. Shit isn't that hard.
Great Muta1 votesBecause it's usually true. I love split push champs and I usually have double the CS and 3k-5k in gold above the rest of my teammates. In Bronze/Silver, I want to be as far away from the rest of my team as possible.
Raoul2 votesWe dont really have to rework the Splitpushers, but we need better ways to deal with them. Right now the only option is that someone with TP walks all the way over to the splitpushed lane and saves the TP to get back to a teamfight, wasting alot of time, or use the TP to respons right away, but leaving the team at a big disadvantage. Meaning the Splitpusher can only win.
We should really take one little page from DotA, and add TP consumeable Items to the game, with a lower Cooldown but only able to go to towers and taking more time. Splitpushers would still have a small victory since they forced someone to burn money on the consumeable, but they wouldnt instantly achieve a big win for their team just by pushing a lane.
crippler381 votesthat'd make the item an instant buy for everyone ya know
Bijorn1 votesGranted Trynd needs a rework anyway, but besides that no. Split pushing is an actual stratagy that you need to figure out what to do against it. You picked a champ that cant shut down a split pusher? Your fault.
Maximum Morde1 votesJust convert them ALL to magic damage, boom, countered by Banner of command.
kappa
Great Muta1 votesYou know how you stop Tryn? Defend the turret and don't leave him alone. Real easy. And pick a ranged laner against him and you've won.
Kivolan1 votes[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HRVzT7rN,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2016-10-07T17:53:33.689+0000)
You know how you stop Tryn? Defend the turret and don't leave him alone. Real easy. And pick a ranged laner against him and you've won.
Isn't this kind of what I said the annoying part is? I can't leave him alone. I want to play the game, have team fights, secure objectives, and instead I get to sit top and farm minions under turret for 30-40 minutes and hope the rest of my team is good. :D
Anyway can't believe how seriously everyone took my qq thread lol.
Great Muta1 votesThere's multiple ways to win the game. You know how you get the same 30 champs in LCS? Without split pushers and other different champs, it would be the same in solo Q.
KhoaLe968851 votesEngage in a 5v4, force objectives and/or base race. The best way to prevent split push is to, wait for it, ward
FalconPawwwwnch1 votesLmao then nerf all ranged ADs so melee ADs can actually function in a lane and in a teamfight
JustJayson1 votesNothing wrong with tryndamere. He does stomp teams who do not bring cc. If you not have a way to at least burst him to bait out his ult then re-engage to kill him then you need hard cc
