I think I realized the balancing strategy based on the last couple Red posts. While they tried to balance some things, for the most part they are throwing out a bunch of changes, expecting a lot of balance problems and such. Then they are going to nit pick through the system and solve issues that pop up until we end up with a changed, potentially better League of Legends. At least, that's what I see going on here.
RiotMeddler48 votesThat's the hope. Preseason's a bit different to other times of the year, in that we're much more focused on getting bigger changes (new masteries, big sets of item changes, game pacing etc) as good foundations to support balanced characters, than in trying to give each individual champion exactly the right numbers on day one. Foundation building, with a focus on the longer term, rather than a patch that focuses on short term balance. That's an approach that's normally not appropriate, given there's ranked play and the various competitive leagues being played on a regular patch. Preseason's the time where we can make bigger, long term improvements, even if that means some disruption in the short term though. Demonstrating what the effects of healing via crits are for example, to set up work for the coming year, is more important than a handful of champions being suddenly too strong or weak for a patch.
Angelofchaos16x2 votesMeddler, what is your opinion on the other 4 ADCs that got big updates (MF, Cait , Quinn and Corki ) ? You said Koggy is going to need some help and Graves is going to need nerfs, but what about the other 4, what do you think of their state of balance ?
RiotMeddler12 votesDisclaimer: This is a really, really rough early assessment.
MF - Potentially too strong Cait - Seems to be in a reasonable spot so far? Corki - Seeing really variable performance so hard to say anything yet (some people using the changes well, some failing pretty hard) Quinn - Seeing people struggle a bit given how her pattern's changed, some people utilizing it well are very effective though. If I had to guess I'd say she might be on the strong side, that's very much a personal guess though.
Madkhatz2 votesDisclaimer: This is a really, really rough early assessment.
MF - Potentially too strong Cait - Seems to be in a reasonable spot so far? Corki - Seeing really variable performance so hard to say anything yet (some people using the changes well, some failing pretty hard) Quinn - Seeing people struggle a bit given how her pattern's changed, some people utilizing it well are very effective though. If I had to guess I'd say she might be on the strong side, that's very much a personal guess though.
Thoughts on our jungler adc, kindred. The whole set up seems to have hit her hard.
RiotMeddler14 votesKindred was way too strong in 5.21 when played well. She's certainly lost a noticeable amount of power, initial reaction is that that's not a bad thing at all though.
Guardman3 votesKindred was way too strong in 5.21 when played well. She's certainly lost a noticeable amount of power, initial reaction is that that's not a bad thing at all though.
Is their any plans to add a jungle enchantment that is more adc focused?
Because with two adcs that can jungle, the marksmen item changes, warrior being changed to emphasize AD Casters/Fighters, and devourer being tuned to be unattractive to ranged champs it feels like their is a hole.
Yuri By Mail1 votesKindred and Urgot, I assume?
AbyssionKnight5 votesGraves jungle is what he probably is referring to, not Urgot.
BottleCapster4 votesGive me the short and straight Doc, What's going to become of my baby Gurl Soraka? The changes took her from borderline OP to almost straight up unmanageable. I'm scared for her. I'm real scared.
RiotMeddler8 votesNo plans for Soraka in 5.23 at least, we've got other things we want to work on first. Will likely take the Grevious Wounds removal off her ult in 5.24 at least though.
LankPants4 votesWill likely take the Grevious Wounds removal off her ult in 5.24 at least though.
The good news is, this has literally no effect on her power at all unless she's teamed with a Mundo.
RiotMeddler4 votesMain thing it'll do is reduce Wish's effectiveness on Soraka herself, making her a bit easier to kill if you can get on her.
Cosmic Warper10 votesNo plans for Soraka in 5.23 at least, we've got other things we want to work on first. Will likely take the Grevious Wounds removal off her ult in 5.24 at least though.
I'm sorry if i'm derailing a bit, but I'd like to say thank you for being so transparent with (and for) the community. Seeing your posts really clarifies the direction you guys are headed for some champs and the game in general. :)
RiotMeddler11 votesThank you. I generally really enjoy posting, it does occasionally wear you down though, so good to hear it's hitting the mark for some people :).
Dantilq3 votesThank you for answering stuff on boards, you are doing a great job. Riot haven't been this transparent since Xelnath days, and now it feels more as a team project, than as a passion project of one dev.
Still I think you deserve some extra prop as you are the most diligent and consistent.
Owatatsumi Kami2 votesTime will tell but I think Kindred got hit too hard this patch. From bordering top tier to now being a liability (she was always risky- feed/famine jungler imo). She hasn't benefited early game as much as the other ADCs with all these changes and felt the jungle nerfs (noticeably harder clears, nerfed health, and changed jungle items and masteries). Add to that the increase in game speed and the nature of her damage being tied to her stacking her passive (doesn't have time to "ramp up"), I'm afraid she'll be even more situational. Hell Graves seems to be a better jungler at the moment with same or greater mobility and higher base stats and scaling. Please keep on eye on Kindred and make sure she stays relevant. It would be sad to see her make her debut and be thrown off the thrown of/stripped of her title of marksman jungler so soon.
DemiluniS4 votesMF potentially too strong ? are you serious now? I'm sorry, but her passive feels terrible and the update didn't fix any of her problems, yet you claiming she's potentially too strong ? I don't know, I gave up on her, she just doesn't feel satisfying at all
The Fast13 votesThat may be true for you, but the numbers 100% point towards her being insanely strong. like 5900 damage on a late game ult strong. Like 350%AD crits strong.
GhastlyGhoulMan3 votesI honestly really like the changes to Quinn, her best playstyle I feel now is to weave auto attacks and spells together. With this, she's become SUPER strong. And also, her mobility is stupid op. Like, absolutely ridiculous. But I see people trying to still use it mostly for the damage rather than for the passenger airplane it is. So yeah, maybe that's where people are still failing.
Also, I really feel like Valor is such an integral part of your fights now. I have more control on when Harrier comes up, so when I go all in I feel like it's actually a 2v1 (Quinn AND Valor) rather than just Quinn with some bird shaped missile.
a 62 votesWhen you nerf MF can you please look into the timing of her AAs with Love Tap. Her auto attack timing was pretty much the only reason I played MF before the rework and there is no reason it should be different when you Love Tap.
Lucifer4 votesCan you comment on where mages are at? If they're too weak, which direction would you take? Revert the cost of items, buff their keystone masteries (could there be more for mages?), return mana pots, or just strictly nerf the AD changes? I feel like there's a lot of different levers to pull, so I'm wondering which is the most practical. I think mages feel weak, but whether they actually are is a different matter.
Pika3104 votesFrom the impressions I've been getting, the player feedback I've heard is more like this:
Sneakyy XD14 votesThat's the hope.
Why would you intentionally make the game agonizing to play for several patches instead of making small, good changes as time goes on?
RiotMeddler25 votesThe changes in the preseason are all pretty heavily intertwined. Some things can't be broken down into smaller chunks. Doing just a couple of new items at a time won't work without the appropriate adjustments to the rest of the item system for example, since the new ones will be either too good or too weak if they're not in sync with the overall system. Additionally many components are heavily dependent on others. Marksmen kit updates for example are dependent on overhauling AD itemization and vice versa for example - the new items were developed with the updated kits in mind, and those kits were developed within a context of improved AD itemization. Things like Masteries could have been separated out, but that then means going through a period of significant disruption, balancing the game after those changes and then doing the same thing again shortly after. There's a limited window we've got where we're not impacting ranked or pro play, so getting stuff in right at the start of that and then taking as much time as available to improve's really valuable.
kile1478 votesA lot of people have been complaining about Yasuo and Tryndamere's synergy with the new crit healing mastery, but I think a lot of people missed that Ashe's passive was changed to not be broken with it. Was that change made specifically to fix her interaction with the new mastery and 
, or was it changed for another reason and those are just happy accidents?
RiotMeddler15 votesWe were extremely confident Ashe would be a problem with Warlord's Bloodlust, so that was a major factor in updating her passive.
Trynd and Yasuo were both identified as characters that would likely be too strong, by how much and in what ways we should react wasn't sufficiently clear pre patch to justify changes to them in advance however. In cases like that we feel we often get more valuable from releasing and responding quickly as needed than in pre-empting things, especially since occasionally the need's misidentified. Despite expectations Vlad and Rumble would gain significant power from the AP update in 5.13 for example we chose to wait and assess what changes were needed. To our surprise the performance of both champions actually decreased, leaving us very happy we hadn't preemptively nerfed them.
Huang Shaotian5 votesDoesn't the fact that so many champions synergize so well with particular end level talents completely defeat the point of trying to offer a 'meaningful' choice about playing the game the way you want?
So far in all my tests only about 10% of the champions I've thought "there is more than one viable option here".
kile1477 votesKind of along this line, but with 
return and the increased lifesteal it really seems like Riot is favoring the concept of OP healing being countered by OP anti-healing. I'm kind of disappointed with this as I was hoping with the removal of and the changes to 
that you guys were in the process of removing GW and instead normalizing heals to make them balanced without having to counter them. Is there a particular gameplay/feel reason you are opting for the more extreme route?
AMYS GRAVE2 votesI would like an answer to this question....
Sneakyy XD3 votesThe changes in the preseason are all pretty heavily intertwined. Some things can't be broken down into smaller chunks. Doing just a couple of new items at a time won't work without the appropriate adjustments to the rest of the item system for example, since the new ones will be either too good or too weak if they're not in sync with the overall system. Additionally many components are heavily dependent on others. Marksmen kit updates for example are dependent on overhauling AD itemization and vice versa for example - the new items were developed with the updated kits in mind, and those kits were developed within a context of improved AD itemization. Things like Masteries could have been separated out, but that then means going through a period of significant disruption, balancing the game after those changes and then doing the same thing again shortly after. There's a limited window we've got where we're not impacting ranked or pro play, so getting stuff in right at the start of that and then taking as much time as available to improve's really valuable.
With the way you guys did it, you're going to have to make the same amount of changes anyway, and in the mean time, the game is awful to play for those who don't want to play the champions that are running rampant.
Also, how does that explain what happened to mages or other very obviously stupid things such as Warlord's Bloodlust?
MoonBlade923 votesAs long as we are discussing patch balance, might I ask what prompted the nerfs to jungle gold gain while buffing the minion gold gain? The net loss for junglers is bigger than ever, and they were already the lowest income role aside from support! I mean, I'll probably get people bashing me for this, but if you are supposed to be spending most of your time trying to gank lanes, should't you be profiting more from the periods when you can sneak in some farm, rather than losing out on income even in the case you dedicate to it?
This might seem little, as it's just a 20 gold loss per camp, but it's very important, especially for junglers with low kill potential/weak early game (as the lanes enter midgame far before the jungler can, and compounded by the fact only a few junglers have the ability to gank as well as a mid laner can, with a mix of CC, burst and gap closers).
MrWasjig2 votesWell I'll just be over in Dota until this nonsense is sorted out. Two days worth of matches and the game is not fun right now.
Too stompy. No chance for comebacks.
Masteries are limited, constricting and overall just anemic.
The only champions who seem viable right now are the overhauled ADCs, Yasuo, and Tryndamere (#diversity).
So I'll pass on preseason if it's all the same to you.
Ralanr6 votesIsn't this how you approached the juggernaut updates?
I'm fine with a chaotic short term as compensation for a stable long term. Keep up the good work!
Oerba No Naja3 votessneaky reminder : dont forget cassiopeia for next early year . thank you
Bruddah Mase7 votesisnt that more of what PBE is for, though? as far as i know not a single balance change was made to the first set of changes on PBE
RiotMeddler10 votesPBE gives us some really valuable feel, direction and thematic feedback. It's got a very small playerbase compared to the regular servers though, which tends to lead to some really lopsided games in terms of team composition (e.g. silver and diamond in the same game). That, when combined with the fact that people play much less seriously on the PBE, means its value from a balance perspective's pretty limited. We do get some useful stuff there, and there were changes to quite a lot of preseason elements while they were on PBE, it's not realistic to expect the PBE or internal testing to deliver sufficient balance feedback to polish changes of this scope however.
UberAffe14 votesFinally someone that has coherent thought instead of instant rage.
Sneak Dog13 votesIt's a yearly event where balance gets messed up. Royally. It's kind of great and awful at the same time.
Welcome to preseason.
SpecterVonBaren2 votesIts like puberty for League, it's gonna be smelly, oily, and pitted but eventually it will reach the stage where it's no longer socially awkward.
Earl Eulrich10 votesthe problem is...those balance problems had been 100%predictable and never should have occured in such a matter in the first place (+ some of the things coming soon only make the issues worse instead of trying to solve anything).
So they basically took an Axe, hit the boat hard with it and then acted surprised, handing us a bucket to keep the boat afloat for god knows how long until they fix it with tiny patches... so well, hope they don´t act too surprised when a lot of people actually leave the boat instead of bearing with their madness.
The Patriachy6 votesThey're deluded. There are too many issues right now and they can't fix them all. Look how long it takes Riot to fix singular issues like infinitely stacking devourer.
Preseason will end with serious issues still remaining.
Rossendale5 votesInb4 ragey forumers flood this thread with "THEY HAVE PBE FOR THAT!!!1" posts.
The Queen Viper5 votes(Assuming that at the end of Season 5, things weren't balanced enough... oh wait, they actually were but better throw all that shit out of the window and go back to square one, just in case.)
Call me when you have done this "beta-testing" then.
Meanwhile, I have better games to play. -.-
SoMNia5 votesYeah, that's pretty much how preseason is supposed to work. Big upheaval, focusing on long term changes rather than maximum balance from one patch to the next.
SKOBODO4 votesI kind of wish they talked a bit more about Dominion and Twisted Treeline and how the changes affect those maps. Why remove Twin Shadows from Dominion? Why not add Essence Reaver? Why have Pillager grant less crit chance than its components?
xV2x3 votesThis has got to be the most civilized post and comment section in a minute related to the preseason. It just goes to show u, if ur cool headed and actually ask meaningful questions, rather than just call everything stupid or op, you'll actually get a meaningful answer from rioters. Thank u for the answers and I hope for the best for season 6, good luck on the rift everyone :)
GrimsGrace2 votesI really like the new masteries but i really don't like how we HAVE to pick just one in each row i feel like i have no options now and some rows i don't want ether sometimes and nether will do anything useful for me :( the you get mana by % or the 20 health on minion kill but its cooldown is like 30 seconds is what if i'm energy because i don't like ether of them why can i just get 2 in one row but only can have like one from the bottom row.
GneissCleavage2 votesI used to love quinn for the feeling of her Ult turning into a bird and dive bombing someones face and clawing out their eyes. her new ult as fast as it is now... is pretty damn boring to be honest. can we some how bring back her old ult and just used more balanced dmg and mana options to make quinn more like nidalee in her ult style.
AkabaneKun1 votesI don't care about the game being full retarded right now i don't care about some champions being free win right now, what i do care is about something that happened last year with a certain someone cough 
cough that got **gutted **because of said experiments and was never compensated when the game ended up in a somewhat balanced state, this year the target is obviously 
and being one of my fav champs and one of the most fun champs to play it really scares me for him, ofc there will be a party here from all the scrubs that can't git gud when he does end up getting gutted and left to die.
TDubH2 votesOne of your favorite champs when he is less played than some of your others... you have a lot of Ones....
And "gitting gud" has nothing to do with beating yasuo, the problem is that the only joy I get out of playing against yasuo is repeatedly killing him as fast and as often as i can so i don't have to deal with him being retarded and shouting the whole damn laning phase... I think a lot of people feel as i do when they want to get rid of yasuo, not that he wins every game, Cough 46% winrate before path, but because hes not fun to play.
