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The One Thing I Don't Like About the Upcoming Grasp of the Undying Nerf

ArnoldSchwarzens··13 votes·1,779 views

On the PBE you won't be able to stack Grasp of The Undying on minions anymore, you will have to be in combat with champions, otherwise it won't work.

While I see where this is coming from I think this might overnerf it a bit. When you weren't able to stack Fervor of Battle on minions anymore without return buffs it was practically never picked anymore until they gave it more power and buffed its damage.

What made Fervor of Battle OP before and makes Grasp of the Undying OP right now is not that their power itself is too big but that it's really unconditional compared to the other keystones. Fervor of Battle is only effective when you are in combat with champions for a long amount of time, Thunderlord's Decree needs to get 3 hits off an enemy champion before it procs etc.

Grasp of the Undying on the other hand does really not heal for that much or deals that much damage compared to the other masteries. What makes it OP ( and made old Fervor of Battle OP ) is that you can easily stack it on minions which makes it available for pretty much every trade instantly and without much effort, while an enemy without Grasp of The Undying will actually have to fight you to make their Keystone effective, risking potential enemy ganks and minion damage.

When Grasp of the Undying is going to be nerfed I think it's CD should either be changed to 3 secs or it's damage and heal to 4% of your max HP. Otherwise it will just be as useless as Fervor of Battle was after it's nerf.

EDIT: Wow they actually did it. On the PBE it now has a 3 second CD instead of a 4 second one.

EDIT 2: Now it's 2.5 % max HP from 3% but it will still stack on minions and still has a 4 sec CD. Meh.

24 Comments

MasterSomething2 votes

It won't be useless. People like Darius and Garen will still use it. Darius especially- This nerf barely affects him because he can just Q the enemy once and wait for them to go back in.

Ralanr2 votes

What about actual tanks? Sion doesn't exactly duel people.

MasterSomething1 votes

Juggernaut is still a tank mate. Also, Sion doesn't work with grasp all that well. His top lane isn't exactly crystal clean and in order to even proc it he would have to hold his opponent down for 4 seconds to get it off (any competent top lane won't let themselves get hit by Sion). I guess now you could E a minion and follow up, but that still requires the opponent to be very out of position. He works much better in jungle with Strength of the Ages- Hell, SotA is good even in top lane as Sion stacks health. I mained Sion back when I started S5, just in case you were curious. Most tanks would probably be hurting, but consider how annoying it was when Poppy could just hit minion then wait for her shield and chunk you for 10% of your health. Or Mundo who would combine it with his E and be a little bitch with the damage. Just give the nerf time. Someone will find some use for it.

Ralanr1 votes

I've been working well with his top lane (normals though, so I can see a problem). Sion doesn't really hit people, but stacking minions allows him to punish people for diving him (and that only hurts squishy divers). I will admit that a lot of people try to avoid getting hit by Sion, but people mess up.

I have seen his jungle winrate increase, so his jungle presence could be returning. But he's pretty strong in top.

ff4sk1 votes

Well maybe they should adjust the mastery to appeal to more than the same 10 champions abusing it right now.

Ralanr1 votes

You know, that is fair. Honestly grasp is just my favorite mastery (especially on Sion) and like most people, I don't like seeing things I like getting nerfed.

But top lane diversity has been pretty bleak lately (and I rarely lose lane as Sion anymore) so I guess changes need to be made.

Spoofghoul1 votes

i hardly lose lanes with Sion either

but thats more because you can max e and kite everyone

i often pick stormraiders for his passive, it really makes you a bitch to kill, especially earlygame because it enables you to get doublekills if you set your death up correctly later its not as effective because you will be very tanky and likely wont die first

But it prevents me from ever falling behind due to jungler camps because after 2 fail ganks they usually just give up. By then im ahead in gold/xp anyway.

And the rest of my masteries i put towards increasing damage overal, the tank masteries arent that good anyway they wont really make you all that tanky as they scale poorly overal except for the final tier keystones.

Grasp is probably better for lategame then stormraiders, but taking all the % damage increase masteries works really well with Sions good base damages you can even tag on some hybrid pen runes and the ones from the mastery if you prefer that over the cdr and your damage wont fall off lategame because of it

Ralanr1 votes

I honestly just max Q then W and focus on farming. I tend to run 12/0/18 because Grasp is more useful in lane for me (I rarely see it in late game) and expose weakness is great for teamfights (plus sorcery amps my damage).

I use Hyprid pen quints, AD reds (for last hitting and so my Q hits harder early game), Armor yellows, and scaling MR blues. The armor yellows and Scaling MR blues are my standard for pretty much all my runepages (I normally play melee characters).

Spoofghoul1 votes

Seems solid.

I like maxing E first because q scales with 2x total ad anyway so it automatically gets damage simply by gaining xp and leveling up

E only gives more damage with ranks

I also tend to hit it easier and i like the range on it, have to say ive gotten real good at landing it even at max range i land the ability about 90% of the time ^^

I guess everyone has their own way of playing Sion

As for runes masteries, ive got about 7 different runepages for him and i think the same amount of mastery pages lol

Chaotic Reks9 votes

Sion doesn't exactly duel people

not with that attitude

Ralanr1 votes

But I just want to farm!

Chaotic Reks2 votes

Farm Champions

Ralanr1 votes

They keep running away! Like COWARDS!!!

ff4sk2 votes

It won't be useless, It's a tank mastery. meaning as long as you build tanky you'll be able to proc it while in the fight. The nerf is to stop bruisers and such from taking the mastery and being super tanky in teamfights. Even if they nerf the mastery though those same brusiers will still be able to proc it thanks to their insanely fast attack speed.

Ralanr3 votes

And because not many tanks straight up duel people for 4 seconds.

ff4sk4 votes

Lol are you serious? Tanks can withstand a ton of damage in the current meta. jesus have you played support taric? I can literally chunk an adc to half health by just building deadman's and titanic hydra on a standard build. Tanks are HIGHLY favored this season and I don't see how balancing a mastery will affect their tankiness or damage output.

Melledoneus3 votes

You forget that means that CC monsters like Nautilus and Morgana are popular because of that. 4 seconds is unlikely.

Grashnim1 votes

Fervor has the same issue yeah?

Ralanr1 votes

Why not just reduce it to 2% instead of 4%?

LilxPaprika1 votes

i could see a charge system in place like with smite. every 20 seconds out of combat its charged.

Siyther1 votes

yet another keystone that will have any effect that appplies to anything other than champs pretty much destroyed. Guess we will be back to using thunderlords on evryone again. While i have agreed that some of the masteries were too strong for minion use not all of them were and since they have been nerfed hardly anyone uses them.Jungles no longer have a decent keystone anyone that doesnt do tons od damage doesnt have a useful keystone. IT has really fell flat for me on these keystones.Hell sometimes i just take the assassin one on mages or brusier just for fun and it doesnt even matter unless im facing someone that can proc thunderlords evry chance they gett. They were a nice idea but they have beeen changed so much nearly all of them are useless ROit what was the piont of all that work to change the mastery system if you just shit on it ?

ProfDrDeath1 votes

This is certainly a possibility if Grasp ends up too weak. However, I'd really like to see them hold off on the change till a bunch of live data is gathered.

La Barbotte1 votes

they did this so that poopy and gp cant farm and just throw grasp in your face every Q / passive proc

Brimaz The King1 votes

They reverted it and made it heal for 2.5% of max health.

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