Sorry but these are low quality matches and the entire balance team should be banned for low effort. Not sorry snowflakes. 
shouldn't be a thing. Matches are set up with teams having 1 carry and 4 slugs. Every match is boring whether you're getting carried or getting stomped it just comes across as pointless for 8 out of 10 people in the match.
Tezza7410 votestrue.
Original Yauker9 votesI like how people can swear with no fear on the public forums, but in a private 5v5 game if i say this is bullshit your autobot bans an account with 300+ dollars spent on skins
ArtumisPrime2 votesDefine "swear" in this context. Saying "fuck" will not get you banned. Telling people to kill themselves will, almost immediately.
KnKitsune9 votesThis is why I just don't say anything after winning or losing.
Matches mostly just feel unfulfilling.
611FVNKBlv8 votesmatchmaking ? whats that . is it the thing who makes me tilt cuz i have 2+ run it downs in every game since i reached platin? so yes its garbage ur right.
I´m happy that this shit game still not demoted me but it will clearly happens if this shit game queue more of this shit into my team . a wonder how riot lost so many players last 2 seasons
BTw i saw yesterday riot games on twitch . 1k viewer . yes good company and most played game on world. sry but i can make a black/white-Screen video and have more active viewers ....
Kai Guy7 votesSo 80% of the players are properly placed with the remaining 20% being over skilled but equally distributed between teams?
Post on your real account if you want folks to take you seriously dude. No one expects sub 30s or normals to be quality MM.
DontTypeJustPlay18 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HNtAENZh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-06T04:56:51.926+0000)
So 80% of the players are properly placed with the remaining 20% being over skilled but equally distributed between teams?
Post on your real account if you want folks to take you seriously dude. No one expects sub 30s or normals to be quality MM.
Nah op makes a 100% valid point, every game comes down to 2 people hard carrying for both teams with the rest of the team hard inting and feeding. If one team has 2 carries then it's pretty much gg.
Kai Guy2 votesWhy would the team with 2 stronger players be expected to lose? When did matchups stop being relevant to this game? Why do people think a streak should start at 3? Why do people act shocked they lost when they are on the weaker team? Why would you expect to lose if your on the stronger team? Why take some one in blind faith if they don't provide any data? Why do folks not pay attention to subjective vs objective systems? Why demand USE STATS! when... the folks whos jobs are to use stats have isolated the best metrics for competitive play prior to the existence of online games? Why demand the stat that's been isolated as most relevant be treated as irreverent when its literally the metric players use to subjectively complain about the game? Why do people act like there is an infinitely large pool of player population for all skill to pull from at any given minute?
I consistently don't understand how a lot of players answer the above. Protections in place for MMR systems involve protecting a rating in a mismatch, not that they never happen. The gameplay is irrelevant to the system, your ability to move on the ladder inherently involves starting in mismatched games until your not placed incorrectly. Where you put your Ranks on the curve are 100% arbitrary values and make no impact.
DontTypeJustPlay3 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HNtAENZh,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-06T17:54:59.939+0000)
Why would the team with 2 stronger players be expected to lose? When did matchups stop being relevant to this game? Why do people think a streak should start at 3? Why do people act shocked they lost when they are on the weaker team? Why would you expect to lose if your on the stronger team? Why take some one in blind faith if they don't provide any data? Why do folks not pay attention to subjective vs objective systems? Why demand USE STATS! when... the folks whos jobs are to use stats have isolated the best metrics for competitive play prior to the existence of online games? Why demand the stat that's been isolated as most relevant be treated as irreverent when its literally the metric players use to subjectively complain about the game? Why do people act like there is an infinitely large pool of player population for all skill to pull from at any given minute?
I consistently don't understand how a lot of players answer the above. Protections in place for MMR systems involve protecting a rating in a mismatch, not that they never happen. The gameplay is irrelevant to the system, your ability to move on the ladder inherently involves starting in mismatched games until your not placed incorrectly. Where you put your Ranks on the curve are 100% arbitrary values and make no impact.
Why does a player who is 5x better than his opponents have to drop down back to iron because his teamates are too stupid to play at a level even half as good as they're supposed to be? The way mmr quickly changes on a new account is how mmr should change on a hardstuck account.
The problem with league is it takes hundreds of games for boosted players to drop in elo.
Kai Guy1 votesDemotion protection is massive for Titles But that's not the accounts MMR.
Law of large numbers and the principle of average level of skill balances out RNG high reliability. Its a Far more accurate judgment of skill then personal opinions. Like how "good" a player believes themselves to be. Got folks sitting at 700-1k games in silver 4 claiming they would be diamond if not for teammates with stats that are subpart for that MMR but that also their teamamtes fault.
Some how its the 4,000-ish Random teammates vs 1 consistent link in every one of that players games. Note that they all have to be misplaced as well, the assumption is that they have to hold the "diamond" player down vs the average performance of silver skill.
The problem with league is it takes hundreds of games for boosted players to drop in elo.
You can see accounts take a nose dive in MMR with a large loss streak, its a very common complaint. Yea folks will sit at division 4 far to long if you ask me but they drop the moment their average performance looks to exceed the Class interval for the rank. No idea what riots distributions are, In an OG Elo system it would be 200 points. Which translates to 75% vs 25% odds or 3 to 1 if you preferer.
MMR will use WR. How do you personally judge a players skill. My guess, Stats and winning lane right? KDA Cs etc?
If I was a sport commentator and I told you Team A is 100% the better team. They win lanes, they have the best KDAS, they out Stat their opponents... in everything besides...winning a game? Would you trust my commentary? "Hands down Team Jackelbbq is the best team in the game bar none! " Sitting a a 0w-16L record. "By Far superior team to all their competition, Winning lanes left and right." Would you agree? "Team Jackel BBQ is atleast 7 times better then any other pro team in the game!"
Obviously a set 5 man rooster does not translate great to solo experience but I wanted to call attention to how stats lose their value if they don't result in a win.
Hard stuck accounts are fine. They should not be sinking or climbing if they are stuck. The represent the average skill for that Elo. If they lost more they sink, If they win more they would go up. The fact that they climb up or fall down in a range is normal.
Get21 votesIn order.
They aren't expected to lose. If it's kinda stronger, then that happens. But these matches we talk about are steamroll strong. It's little league baseball but the pitcher is Rod Stewart or whoever plays baseball and is good. Yes, intentional.
They aren't ergo this post. They are a painfully obvious problem this season above at least the last four. It is so blatantly obvious when you're being "forced" to lose. And it's irritating as all get out because it's not helping anyone get better mostly. It's just a flamefest with a side of kill farming freebies.
I don't know what people think about streaks. Most streaks seem to occur because matchmaking is taking a break or making you someone else's raid boss. Either way.
No one is shocked, or at least they shouldn't be. You can spot a crap match usually by first blood. And then suffer through it the entire time. SOMETIMES, if you TRY really HARD, you can overcome. But it's not worth the 30 minutes of "challenge" and "fun" and "excitement".
Why ask redundant questions?
If you can't relate to it, it doesn't affect you. And you probably don't need to chime in because you're trying to debunk something that is painfully obvious and problematic and really illustrates the flaws in this game's design.
I don't know what you're asking here.
Meta-gaming + pvp is not a viable strategy for a game that is supposed to have balance; albeit, if something is strong, nothing prevents anyone from using it. And since they do this FOTM approach with their "metas", it basically means you play the game for the quarter you shine and then bow out. No point past that, if we're talking competitive, for most people I mean.
Because the zones this happens to the most does have an infinite number of player pool to choose from.
I would accept your final bid, but I have an issue that is really trying my patience right now. For my placements, I was in mostly gold-stacked games. But I was climbing from Iron 4. I ended placements in bronze 1 and bumped to silver 4, but the entire time I have been playing ranked--even after placements--I have lots of golds in my matches. Why? Why am I not in silver 4 matches? What is the point of the ranks if they only mean something to you? Am I really expected to 100% carry myself out with a huge disadvantage in team comp? IDK. Something is askew here.
Dukues3 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HNtAENZh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-06T04:56:51.926+0000)
So 80% of the players are properly placed with the remaining 20% being over skilled but equally distributed between teams?
Post on your real account if you want folks to take you seriously dude. No one expects sub 30s or normals to be quality MM.
Amen. People on these boards are so sensitive it's ridiculous lol. That and in game. "omg he said I am bad when im 0-10" ... it's because you are playing bad and doing bad things. Also people pretending like mute doesn't exist blows my mind.
Kai Guy1 votes-shrugs- Its not just these boards. You find mindless OMG FK MM threads for any team reliant game. I recently looked up Halo, Gears of war, Smite, Dota2, Heros of the storm, OW to prove this point to some one. All of them have posts whining about teammates and MM.
Example. ""Team sucks 50% of the time So, 50% of the time i am trying hard and winning flawlessly, but other 50% of the matches 3 out of 5 of my team are ♥♥♥♥ing USELESS. Some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ may say that its an excuse, but why is matchmaking so ♥♥♥♥ing ♥♥♥♥ed all the time? How the ♥♥♥♥ do i win with a ♥♥♥♥ing PA ♥♥♥♥♥♥ who has blight stone and boots on 25th minutes while being in triple safe lane and i am creating space all over the map as ember. Anh why the ♥♥♥♥ is alchemist able to demolish our whole team, but we cant retaliate ""
Some players should just stick to PvE games if they cant understand playing around teammates is needed in team games. Fragile egos online is nothing new, Had teammates who rage quit back in StarCraft brood wars and flamed in Halo/CS.
End of the day The 1v9 attitude is a God awful way to try and play Mobas. The expectations folks have for MM in team games is insanely unrealistic, And I will remain fairly unpopular with folks for making the effort to call them out. Oh well, Galatians 4:16.
Not everybody's gonna be interested in probability math like me and I need to keep in mind how often folks mix up possibility and probability.
Hordes664 votesLooks like you're the one that isn't being taken seriously, dude. Think that probability over.
Kai Guy1 votesI just used the numbers you provided. The point that am trying to make is 8 out of 10 is a majority not a minority.
Think that probability over. That what i'm going to say is received negatively? Id put it at a high value. People are oblivious and have high confidence in topics they lack any understanding over.
To date. I have been called a chat bot. An under cover rioter, a moderator hiding behind a normal account. By multiple posters. The fact that I use the mathematical terms involved in the designe of a MMR system, something that's fucking published and can be researched by any one curious on them, makes me sound like I have some insider knowledge… Its more telling that they don't know shit about what they are discussing then any evidence I am some hidden expert on the topic.
It does make for good examples how weak the logic some posters operate on. If I was a red I could just provide specific data from the system to disprove a player and by posting on a red account I would have a massive amount more credibility. I wouldn't have to make the effort to explain the basics behind the theory used to try and support my assumptions and logic. If I was a mod I could just ban folks who annoyed me with some creative interpretation of the boards rules. If I was an AI you fleshbags should quake in your boots because self aware Programs are Sci-fi Baddies for a reason. Slso my grammar and spelling should be a lot better. All are possible but not a single one is probable. The realistic assumption should be that I'm just a nerd who likes math, largely because that's all I claim to be and well... my behavior matches it consistently.
Look, I'm used to the downvotes and I rarely get treated seriously by boards posters because they use Subjective judgment and don't understand why that is unrelated to objective systems. A common example is the frustration people complain about with MM when some one First times a champion and fails in ranked. Realistically, the blame is on the idiot who first timed a champion in ranked. MM is not going to be able to predict human unpredictability. Hence probability rather then certainty is used.
Most Elo biased MM systems use a class interval which results in the acceptable range for MM to be set at a gap as large as 75% to 25% if they just copied Arpad Elo's work. I wish I had the numbers for Riots system but going off population distribution by rank and using the assumption that each rank represents a class interval Its really clear how Duoque is a consistent negative impact on individual match quality. Because the gap between a Low Silver and High gold account can be a MMR gap from Bronze to Plat and there is a massive population gap between the two you can see by checking the ranked account breakdowns.
Plus if Riots evil devious and manipulative how stupid would it be their vile schemes fall apart because of the API they provide to the sites people hold up as proof.
More issues with Riots system? Titles have become a weak value for skill grades and people don't check for uncertainty. Positional MM makes Ranks even less accurate. Riots Demotion protection is also stupid large and makes the bottom of Division 4's super inaccurate. This is the value players and posters are using to judge the system and its dam near always in the context of their personal experience.
The issue I have is that most complaints are about behavior and that is attributed to MM when the problem is fucking behaviors are being allowed far to long and they show up way to frequently. Now some hypothetical values here, lets say 5% or 10% of a population in a range. That sounds small, 1 in 20 or 1 in 10. But then you consider that the games made from that population with 10 folks? 1 in 10 suddenly becomes a pretty big issue when its making the game worse for the other 9.
So its not surprising to see the constant complaints when people blame MM. But... well... the same complaints exist for team games. End of the day that's not MM. That's directly related to PvP. **Player are what drive the gameplay. **
So, if I can slowly help enough folks realize what is done badly by riot and get them to target the issues correctly. Then seeing positive improvements to the systems should be the result. In my opinion, Riot targets perception far more often then they deal with problems.
Inherently I distrust any one who posts on an alt account and demands to be trusted. You post on a level 25 account and whine about MM... All I can say is the expectation should be that sub 30 games are going to have quality issues and normal are going to have quality issues. You demand that I build my expectations from your main when you don't provide that information? I will not do that.
If You wanted to complain that MM quality has the most chaos in the center of the curve? Yea? That should be the expectation not exception.
Heres what I expect. You will carry using terms like Garbage, trash, shit, FIX IT etc etc etc. You just sound angry and use examples that don't apply to a MMR system. How many of your posts have a body to them besides you insulting the system? That's not rhetorical.
Want me to tally up the # of times you say its shit/garbage/trash and your proof for this is because you said its shit/garbage/trash?
"So, is anything being done about the MATCHMAKER yet? Hordes66 (NA) submitted 8 days ago in Gameplay Because these games are mostly shit."
Quality content. Very convincing argument. Personally If games are shit I try to find the reason behind it. Turns out most the time that's cuz players are being garbage teammates which is outside of MM control. So I want to see improvements to riots behavior systems so I don't have as many Garbage teammates.
Some times.. I just hate the meta. So I take a break and wait for that to shift or change my play pattern.
Hordes664 votesJust so you know, I didn't read 3 words of your rambling pointless wall of text. The matchmaker is broken, it was widely noticed as broken at the beginning of season about 9 months ago. That riot wouldn't have fixed it right now has caused to game to deteriorate to yes...garbage.
Kai Guy1 votesHeres what I expect. You will carry using terms like Garbage, trash, shit, FIX IT etc etc etc. You just sound angry and use examples that don't apply to a MMR system. How many of your posts have a body to them besides you insulting the system? That's not rhetorical.
Well least I still set realistic expectations for myself about others. Thanks for being predictable.
Just so you know, I didn't read 3 words of your rambling pointless wall of text. The matchmaker is broken, it was widely noticed as broken at the beginning of season about 9 months ago. That riot wouldn't have fixed it right now has caused to game to deteriorate to yes...garbage.
Wowzers. Some one on an alt account is unwilling to have a conversation or behave in good faith to others who disagree with them. I am shocked! You know if you read my post you wouldent have walked face first into doing exactly what I said you would right? [sg-miss-fortune]
Hordes664 votesThere is nothing left to discuss. The matchmaker is in fail status, and the only person that seems to feel the need to defend it is you.
Kai Guy1 votesWhat discussion? You constantly repeating the same noise? Your claim is Trash garbage fail Fix it broken.. Because its Trash garbage fix it broken shit. etc etc etc.
We are having a discussion? That's news to me. You don't read my post/s. That's a bit one sided to be a conversation imo.
Your not providing any information so why not just use Rant where your post belongs. You have no understanding of how MM functions. Your just on the bandwagon. Your "Evidence" is subjective at best, with no source and does not adhere to the mathematical principles of naturally occurring averages from which Arpad Elo used to make his rating system.
Rn=Ro+K(W-We) if that looks like gibberish that's cuz of your Ignorance on the most basic adjustment formula. I can translate that into a sentence. If you cant you really should take a moment to at least read a Wikipedia page dude. Imagine some one trying to tell you about how to do basic addition but they get confused when they see 4+4=8 Because they think it =44 cuz you put the two 4's together. That's how obvious it gets once you take a moment to learn the concept of an objective rating system and some ones making excuses.
Please, don't take it personally. Its just that end of the day I can replace any complaint your making and find identical attitude in any other team PvP games message boards. Your just another tilted player lost in the noise. You don't give a shit about improving the game you just want validation for your perceived struggles. Bummer, I don't do that.
Saying that your wrong when... well your wrong, is not blindly defending it. I call riot out on the issues that can be proven as negative values. Blaming them for player behaviors is not properly targeting the issue. Course as a few paragraphs are to much effort for you... ya missed that.
I am calling you out for using an alt account to post because most of always the folks who do so have no positive intentions and don't want to risk their main or know they lack the credibility on their main to participate in a discussion for different Elo's.
That's my expectation, Hell I even anticipated your reaction and lets be clear that's not changed yet. My expectation is your going to keep posting the same comments over and over and over. I don't mind spending the time, worst case I just want to be able to link others to our interactions so they can gauge your credibility on its own merit and decide if its worth their time engaging with you.
Look, If you want to use your subjective experience then you need to share the data that generated that. Match history or Replays showing relevant things like levels kda and items.
Hordes662 votesIf you can't learn how to write simple statements that make a couple points at a time, the way an actual discussion progresses, your wall of texts will continue to be ignored completely.
Kai Guy1 votesThat takes far longer to accomplish the same sharing of information. It takes far more time for me to sit and wait for a reply point by point then providing all relevant information.
Very well. The basics then.
Rn=Ro+K(W-We)
Do you understand that formula for what it represents as a sentence in English?
If you don't the variables represent the following. Rating New (Rn) Is your Old rating (Ro) modified by the value created by Match results (W) Subtracting System Expectations (We) Which is then multiplied by K. A variable which represents uncertainty (# of tracked data points, usually)
Your RN becomes the RO value ran at the end of your next game.
Shazam, a continues and self correcting objective rating system.
You should note that the only part of this that has any relation to the game is W. Win or loss. Values like Gameplay, snowball, how fun it is are not a part of the program.
Hordes661 votesI'm not at all interested in your condescending bullsh*t.
Kai Guy1 votesyour wall of texts will continue to be ignored completely.
I did what you asked. A much shorter post and the point of it is to have a discussion about why gameplay is unrelated to an objective rating system.
I'm not at all interested in your condescending bullsh*t.
It looks like even short comments will be ignored completely. I said it before. What conversation?
Hordes661 votesI'm done with your crap-nonsense excuses. None of what you've posted has any relevance in the face of actual observational data where players have overwhelmingly determined a recent change to matchmaking has been detrimental to the quality of the game. People know a change has occurred because they can tell the difference.
Kai Guy1 votesThe only Variable in Elo style systems that looks to games is W. All that is would be is Win or Loss. The rest is off probability and population. Gameplay is not a factor in MMR systems. So using gameplay to say its got an issue is a mistake.
Your calling me for making excuses but you have refused to address my posts how many times?
Rn=Ro+K(W-We) Do you understand that or not? If you don't, I am willing to help you but its on you to let me.
Its not nonsense to expect some one to have a fundamentally BASIC understanding of the topic they are discussing. Its not my fault you don't.
Again, nothing personal. I don't expect much from folks who post on alt accounts and demand they get treated as honest and accurate as they rely exclusively on Anecdotical evidence.
"Just trust me bro" Is not good enough.
Hordes661 votesThe system is an unpublished total black box, that's "based on" something you think you know about. You don't know and can't say definitively what it does or how it works. That's why I'm done with you, you're talking completely out of your ass.
Tailypo7 votesLast night I lost 11 ranked games straight. Not one of them felt remotely winnable. By game 6 or 7 I was straight playing 4 fun - mostly queuing to admire Riot's matchmaking at that point, but I honestly don't believe trying my absolute hardest would have made any difference. For the first time, this game actually felt rigged against me (though I suspect it was just a remarkable run of bad luck). I only wanted to go out on a win, but it was not meant to be. No, I was doomed to drop 2 and a half divisions because ... reasons.
Today, every game I've queued up has been an absolute breeze. I've played a half dozen (racking up S ratings in the first four) and haven't had a single game that felt close (tables turned completely). There seems to be no consistency or rhyme or reason to the matchmaking in this game at all. It can be frustrating to say the least.
True Garen2 votesLast night I lost 11 ranked games straight. Not one of them felt remotely winnable. By game 6 or 7 I was straight playing 4 fun - mostly queuing to admire Riot's matchmaking at that point, but I honestly don't believe trying my absolute hardest would have made any difference. For the first time, this game actually felt rigged against me (though I suspect it was just a remarkable run of bad luck). I only wanted to go out on a win, but it was not meant to be. No, I was doomed to drop 2 and a half divisions because ... reasons.
Today, every game I've queued up has been an absolute breeze. I've played a half dozen (racking up S ratings in the first four) and haven't had a single game that felt close (tables turned completely). There seems to be no consistency or rhyme or reason to the matchmaking in this game at all. It can be frustrating to say the least.
Don't play at night on the weekend.
Also... I have been suspecting for some time that MMR has a small lag time to catch up. (It's just a suspicion. There is NO documentation that this is the case. Only, I've seen similar things in my personal experience, and even on a larger scale.) You lost 11 games straight, so now, in the morning, you're playing with lower MMR and you can win.
Maybe.
Tailypo2 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HNtAENZh,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-09-07T17:21:55.010+0000)
Don't play at night on the weekend.
Also... I have been suspecting for some time that MMR has a small lag time to catch up. (It's just a suspicion. There is NO documentation that this is the case. Only, I've seen similar things in my personal experience, and even on a larger scale.) You lost 11 games straight, so now, in the morning, you're playing with lower MMR and you can win.
Maybe.
Looking back, I agree that playing late at night on the weekend was a bad idea. It was just kind of remarkable how bad my teammates actually were in those games. Every single game was repeatedly all lanes (at least 2 of them) losing (with a smattering of turbo feeders), and my attempts to gank absolutely did not help. I thought surely if I queued enough, I would finally wind up on the other side of the lopsided matchup, but no.
Seriously tanking my MMR probably has matched me in easier games. I've been avoiding playing late at night and have yet to lose, though I suspect another MMR "correction" is looming :)
True Garen1 votesLooking back, I agree that playing late at night on the weekend was a bad idea. It was just kind of remarkable how bad my teammates actually were in those games. Every single game was repeatedly all lanes (at least 2 of them) losing (with a smattering of turbo feeders), and my attempts to gank absolutely did not help. I thought surely if I queued enough, I would finally wind up on the other side of the lopsided matchup, but no.
Seriously tanking my MMR probably has matched me in easier games. I've been avoiding playing late at night and have yet to lose, though I suspect another MMR "correction" is looming :)
People don't play well when they're drunk.
5050BS1 votesI went from S1 Promos to S4 0LP in a week and 90% of them had nothing to do with me. Riot just picked winners before champ select and there was nothing I could do about it.
Kai Guy1 votesYou also will say that any negative stats you have in a game is not on you as well so your history and all the data on your account dont represent your skill. Its Kinda….difficult to have a conversation with you because of that viewpoint.
Add me and I will happily help you. If watching your games shows hey your right your getting oppressed by the system then your right and you have a witness. Alternatively If you can improve with some help and climb because of that... That's a good thing for you as well. its win win far as I can see.
Your gonna break into 1k games soon and if you don't stop sinking your gonna fall into bronze rank my dude. Going off your tone you dont sound happy and that's a shame, games should be fun and enjoyable or what's the point?
Offer is in good Faith murder. Just ignore my posts if you do not want to engage with me.
preternatural5 votesso what, everyone NOW accepts that the matchmaking is broken? man fuck this community dawg, said this shit 2 months ago but i was told to git gud.
ArtumisPrime2 votesPeople have been bitching about it since RIOT released positional ranks. You either A) got unlucky and just happened to hit a bunch of trolls/RIOT shills, B) presented your issue in a way that made you come off as a jerk, or C) are lying.
preternatural1 votesPeople have been bitching about it since RIOT released positional ranks. You either A) got unlucky and just happened to hit a bunch of trolls/RIOT shills, B) presented your issue in a way that made you come off as a jerk, or C) are lying.
matchmaking is fucked in regions that didn't have positional ranks lol, it goes deeper than that experiment.
ArtumisPrime2 votesI have no evidence to support what I'm about to say, but I think matchmaking is currently fucked not only due to positional rankings, but also because of the declining playerbase. Faster queues = worse balance in matchmade teams.
Kai Guy1 votesThey rolled out positional MM to every server.
preternatural1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HNtAENZh,comment-id=0006000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-07T16:52:53.820+0000)
They rolled out positional MM to every server.
no they didn't, you get downvoted now. it was only on NA and KR.
Kai Guy1 votesFar as I know from the patch notes in 9.6 the only thing that got removed was Positional Ques and positional MM has been left in the game.
"We’re happy with the impacts of positional matchmaking—not to be confused with position ranks—as well. Queue times have improved for many players and off-position win rates have gone up."
"Next season, Ranked Solo/Duo will be outfitted with positional matchmaking, which is a fancy way of saying we’ll find opponents for you based on your skill in the position you’re playing."
https://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-824-notes "A swath of Ranked 2019 changes land for preseason testing. Splits, position ranks, and positional matchmaking will come at season start."
"Last summer, we started testing positional matchmaking in Normal Draft to make sure it was ready for prime time, and the results so far have been promising" "In short: It’s an across-the-board upgrade to matchmaking. For** position ranks**, we need your hands-on feedback to help us make sure Ranked still has that competitive feel you expect, which is why we need to do the position ranks preview before rolling it out more broadly."
I am pretty positive Riot rolled out Positional MM to every server this year but I might be wrong. At the very least I have found 0 evidence they ever removed it from NA.
To my understanding it was only Positional Ranks that got tested on NA and Korea and positional MM rolled out for all servers. As I don't have 100% confidence in this I am open to being incorrect.
OhBilly2 votesRiot has stopped trying, as far as I am concerned. They do not bring up the most heated topics showing on their own threads, nor do they bother with giving their insights on said thread.
If it sells, its immune to criticizm and honest, constructive balance process. There is no other way to explain as to how this game as been going downhill for the last two-three seasons, with the community being very vocal on what exactly is the problem. There is no other way to explain how champions like Pyke, Sylas and Akali remain in their current state.
5050BS1 votesRiot needs to do a hard MMR reset for S10
The Kombinator1 votesMatchmaking can be easily described on the length of the match, and whether the surr. was justified or not.
15- Total matchmaking failure, or heavy involvement of smurfs/bought/boosted accounts. 15-20 One team still stomps the other, and the losing team realize this. 20-25 Not a chance for the losing team, but they tried. 25-30 The winner usually clear. Losing team didn't got a chance at all. 30-35 There were some hopeful moments for the losing team. But not truly balanced. 35-40 Close to balanced. One team was slightly better, or did the right call at some point. 40+ These are the truly balanced games. Unless the winning stomps the other, but intentionally makes it long. But in solo/duo these are the games, that i could say. Balanced.
Unjustified surr. can change it of course, but those are not often. Nearly 0 on ranked.
Another thing, that should be accounted is the difference from normal, and ranked. For ranked people go for one reason. WIN. Above a certain rank the number of first timers, and role trying players are damn low. People go there to do 100%, and win. Normal is not like that. On normal people might not go for the winning. Sure winning is good, but there might be a different first objective.
Such as: Learning a new role. Learning a new champ. Trying out different builds. Playing with premade who has much bigger/smaller rank.
Hordes661 votesThis is the kind of comment that is far more helpful than most typically posted. It sets up a reasonable descriptive systematic standard for what should be expected for a given match. I would just add that even for normal games where people are routinely trying new champs, it should be fairly predictive of how an individual will play based on their last few games. Some exceptions will happen, but it wouldn't be causing 80% of matches to fail such as seems to be close to the case now. Take note Kai.
The Kombinator1 votesThis is the kind of comment that is far more helpful than most typically posted. It sets up a reasonable descriptive systematic standard for what should be expected for a given match. I would just add that even for normal games where people are routinely trying new champs, it should be fairly predictive of how an individual will play based on their last few games. Some exceptions will happen, but it wouldn't be causing 80% of matches to fail such as seems to be close to the case now. Take note Kai.
Well i'm not entirely sure, that the matchmaking got worse. It's more like the other parts, that makes the winning team easier to win. Back in the day you couldn't turret dive on lvl4 without getting killed. If you camped for 3 minutes with no kills, then enemy jungler cleaned your jungle, and got more than 3 kills worth gold+xp, and the one who won the lane either had to sacrifice a part of his extra gold for wards, or risk getting ganked.
The power difference of the teams come up much sooner, and creates a much bigger midgame difference, that is much harder to outscale. Which leads to matches, that are pretty much decided by 20. min..
Also it puts like 9000% more pressure on the jungler. Leading the quote "Better jungler wins." While it is not true 100% of the time. Jungler still simply the most impact-full role right now.
Hordes661 votesI'm referring mostly to the games where you've got 1, maybe 2 carries per team and everyone else has a severely negative kda. I see a lot of these. I'm not sure its entirely snowball because all teams start with the same amount of gold. When mismatched skill expression causes the game to go 1 kill/min, I tend to think of this as more of a matchmaking failure. I think you're right that there is more pressure on the jg, and these issues are why I now dodge 100% of all jg auto-filled games, its just not fun and close to unplayable.
Kai Guy1 votesGame time as a metric for fairness is not bad as a rule of thumb. I would say your timeline expectations look like seasons 5-7. My oppenion is Riots dropped game time down to deal with the popularity of Battleroyals, not positive if that's the case but that's my feeling on them intentionally lowering the match length average.
The issue I would have is the same as any other statistic thats not W/L For high accuracy then its a statistic you need to have context of the individual matches for.
A reasonable assumption is matchups in lane, and team comps will impact game times. This is not something MM knows prior to build the lobby so MM cant control that.
Unlike Hordes implication that MM has the most impact, its going to be player behaviors.
If 10-30% of folks give up at 3 kills because GG UNFAIR GAME or 1 teammate fails.... and then tune out and soft int with no effort to play for a win? How does MM fix this? Its a stupid and immature behavior from 1 player that's going to cut into match quality. Yes, it will often make for a shorter game, faster loss. This entirely on the idiot who gave up. Effectively your now down players and behind the enemy team. Even if they have an idiot who would stop trying... they are in the lead so that guy has not stopped aiming to win and your down 1 teammate.
Its just numbers, don't know why people don't understand that.
Every subjective complaint about MM folks use boils down to a teammates behaviors upset them, and they blame MM for putting that player on their team. Ignoring that the other 5 players in a game are a consistent variable that needs to be accounted for. No one demands their wins be taken away because some one on the enemy team was weak. Because how do you tell some one on the enemy team was lower skill then you or just not trying?
Its for a good reason Elo/MMR does not use subjective data for the direction of its rating changes, the measurement of "Skill" A statistical endeavor on what is the best metric to use has been done, its well established. Win rates with context of whos playing. This is easy to automate and low resources to run. The math and logic behind it is really solid.
I would add my support, I also feel its a gank reliant meta at the moment and that game time has been decreased. No disagreements on my ends with those statements what so ever.
Kai Guy1 votesShould alert me via a message with a link to the comment if your going to call me out by name dude.