Imaqtpie said that.
And the reason for this mainly is because thornmail sucks ass on anyone besides 
Itemization shouldn't allow every ADC in the game to become a drain tank.
And I still think the new phantom dancer passive is busted.
Rain NT5 votesSorry bro.. I just played adc with BT and thornmail malphite made it that I was actually LOSING hp fighting him without even getting hit .. the fuck... thornmail basically MAKES you buy BT or you cant lifesteal at all. It mitigate eachother... Look at it this way, if an ADC has BT and you want to stop them from lifestealing after they got chunked, get thornmail. You want to stop taking a lot of damage from thornmail? buy BT.
But thornmail can NEVER be more stronger than BT for the main reason that ADC has to be able to kill tanks or this game would be league of tanks because ADC wouldnt be able to kill anyone.
And I'm a top lane main so I know thornmail is a good item, you know how many adc I've took out just because I had thornmail late game? They think because they were able to damage me all game they can continue attacking me and then realize that they shouldnt after they see thornmail
statelesskiller2 votesthis. its like adcs forget that thornmail exists as a item
i cant tell you how many times i have seen a adc mindlessly shooting a full tank malphite or rammus. and you can CLEARLY see the adcs healthbar dropping faster then that tank but he doesnt stop shooting. and then im danger pinging him because he is going to die and then he dies and then in all chat you see the CLASSIC
"wait what how did i die"
also a top main
TequilaZombie2 votesI'll never forget the one time I got a kill on a Cait who was auto attacking me with zero life steal even though I was fighting Darius and never touched her.
Dominick Destine5 votesSorry bro.. I just played adc with BT and thornmail malphite made it that I was actually LOSING hp f
It's been stated that only can use thornmail now.
Rain NT1 votesI said it so happens that malphite was the last person I faced that had thornmail. But im saying in general anyone who has thornmail I struggle with cause I cant lifesteal at all, if I lose hp thats gonna be permanent unless I hit someone else. For rammus and malphite its more like I lose a a good amount of hp when I hit them where as if any other champion who has thornmail, if I hit them my hp goes down slowly. But still I get no health back from hitting them or barely at all unless I get two lifesteal items.
I play both top and adc almost exclusively so I see it from both side, thornmail is a good right now, if they decide to buff it, it will just be too strong and EVERY tanks would get it over any other armor items. Why have bunch of armor items if one is better than the rest? Thornmail has a good niche right now and it works. No need to change it.
Sona x Rubick1 votesyou need a shit tons of armor for thornmail to overshadow lifesteal+magic resistance runes. unless you have an armor steroid, thornmail sucks compared to other tanks items.
darkestkhan1 votesI get thornmail on Sion jungle - but mostly cause I want that armor and passive (+ it is quite cheap), not to mention the fact that I will get hp from my passive anyway.
Rain NT1 votesGo watch my last replay of luc goin 10-6-15. Go on replay.gg
Well anyway I was fucking fed right and Garen was not, but Garen would just troll and let me hit him without even poping his W and watch me lose half my hp just from hitting him. Damn the only time I can face him was when I had 2 teammates on me peeling him off and shielding me. Now if I had a BT that game I PROB wouldnt be losing any hp but I would be healing either, it took me 6 aa to get me to half hp from hitting him just to let you know.
Test yourself, go into a custom with a friend and buy a thornmail, and tell him to hit you, hes going to be losing a lot of hp.
Maximum Morde1 votesI'd argue that ADCs shouldn't be good at killing tanks anyway. They should be for killing objectives. Mages and assassins should be the champion killing classes.
Rain NT1 votesI dont know, riot doesnt see the game like that, even doublelift said if an adc cant kill a tank, that is not an adc.
Assassin are suppose to be able to kill squishy quickly, single target, and have good mobility. Spike early to mid game Mages are suppose to add magic damage, burst, poke, aoe, and/or cc. Spike early to mid game Tanks are suppose to be able to tank, offer good amount of cc/peel, good source of engaging prob number one option for it too. Spike mid game Fighters are a hybrid of assassins and tanks, so they do less damage than assassin and less tanky than tanks, not as good as killing and not as good at peeling but still decent at both, best class for split pushing. Spike mid game Marksman are suppose to take down anything that their team cannot with constant dps (main source of dps), and killing turrets. Spike mid-late game. Support is suppose to offer the most vision, help teammates with what they need, and create peel/support for whoever needs it in teamfights.
Thats how the game is played imo.
IS3E531E3F9643915 votesthere are drain tanks, and then there are drain behemoths like graves who heal for 600 health a hit while having 120 bonus armor and mr...
morris12 votesHonestly I didn't believe this until yesterday when I facetanked a Darius with 5 passive stacks as Graves with nothing but a Death's Dance.
Frius4 votesDUDE ,[zombie-brand-mindblown] explains when thornmail needs 600 armor to be as good as before you get easily healed on i had much armor and thornmail and graves with only a death dance was healing on me:/ wtf
either revert thornmail nerfs or make it apply atleast 25% grievous wounds... not even 40 or such.
something something
600 armor 
to be as good as old RIP
dapositiveviking2 voteswell graves and lifesteal is a wonky interaction
morris11 votesNot even Rammus benefits from it as much as before.
FantasySniper3 votesDude, you'd need Bloodlust on top of Bloodthirster on top of Mercurial to drain tank a Thornmail user.
Sinlaire1 votes
Usually enough to get you through the day in my experience for non adc's.
Or
For those playing adc. Warlord not needed on any, just nice.
ForgiveColour2 votesWhat a terrible build nice cancer
MunchCrunchLunch3 votesDude, you'd need Bloodlust on top of Bloodthirster on top of Mercurial to drain tank a Thornmail user.
LMAO.
lenny003 votestanks shouldnt be able to win vs a carry role anyway. the tank meta is unhealthy because he bursts down your carry (no dmg items remember this) and get away with like half health. why do tanks do more damage building no damage then champs that build full dmg? plz explain.
Axe2Handle3 votesTanks do not do more damage than champs that build full damage.
You ever see 2 tanks try to 1v1 each other? Its a long slap fest that ends in 1 of them just walking away to lick thier wounds.
Slapping around a squishy ADC as a tank is a different story. They are squishy of course, sneezing at them takes at least half thier HP.
What tank are you speaking of that is "Bursting" these carries away? Also this is a team game, if a carry is getting caught out without thier team thats thier own damn fault. CC kills squishy carries. Tanks usually come equipped with CC.
Skias3 votesTanks do not do more damage than champs that build full damage.
You ever see 2 tanks try to 1v1 each other? Its a long slap fest that ends in 1 of them just walking away to lick thier wounds.
Slapping around a squishy ADC as a tank is a different story. They are squishy of course, sneezing at them takes at least half thier HP.
What tank are you speaking of that is "Bursting" these carries away? Also this is a team game, if a carry is getting caught out without thier team thats thier own damn fault. CC kills squishy carries. Tanks usually come equipped with CC.
Yeah, good luck bursting that ADC with 20% lifesteal on their 700-1000 damage crits with tons of attack speed. They just blow through you and heal like mad.
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesYeah, good luck bursting that ADC with 20% lifesteal on their 700-1000 damage crits with tons of attack speed. They just blow through you and heal like mad.
the most cancerous part of league of legends. i wish adc's didn't exist.
Axe2Handle2 votesHow much lifesteal and damage does an ADC do when chain CC by the enemy?
Zero.
How fast do they die to focus fire?
Instantly.
RISE Shlack1232 votesImaqtpie is clearly just high, like always. BT counters thornmail damage so you can attack tanks without killing yourself. It's not a tank killer item in and of itself.
Skias1 votesImaqtpie is clearly just high, like always. BT counters thornmail damage so you can attack tanks without killing yourself. It's not a tank killer item in and of itself.
No, it just multiplies the efficiency of the other overtuned items they build to melt you. The problem is too many stats are being given for free like CDR, Pen and Resists. The Juggernaut and ADC item rework sent itemization into a bizarre state.
RISE Shlack1231 votesThat's along the same lines of what I said - BT isn't a tank killer, but is built to counter tank items.
MunchCrunchLunch2 votesit becomes impossible. and I mean. IMPOSSIBLE for tanks. to kill adcs. late game when they have a bt. they just can't they just soak. so much damage.
GULAG 4 U1 voteswell why SHOULD a tank delete the ADC?
Kill them? Fine. Delete? nuh-uh.
MunchCrunchLunch1 voteswell why SHOULD a tank delete the ADC?
Kill them? Fine. Delete? nuh-uh.
they shouldn't. but adcs shoudln't be able to duel tanks. in which outside of rammus and malphite (which some builds let you 1v1 them and some adcs. like vayne. certainly can at any time.) currently all an adc has to get is a bt and mecurial. stand at his place. auto down a maokai and kill them and they won't even chunk any of your health.
why the fuck is it fine for adc's to kill everyone else but nobody has the right to kill them
" oh zed killed me with no counterplay"
what the fuck is the counterplay to auto attacks. you can't fucking dodge them
ForgiveColour2 votesOne thing gameplay doesnt understand
Burst kills sustain Sustain kills tank Tank stops burst
This triangle is too hard for gameplay to understand especially to people like you rofl
And lol what kind of stupid adc is going to build merc and bt at the same time lul
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesOne thing gameplay doesnt understand
Burst kills sustain Sustain kills tank Tank stops burst
This triangle is too hard for gameplay to understand especially to people like you rofl
And lol what kind of stupid adc is going to build merc and bt at the same time lul
when an adc auto does 1k+ damage. i call that burst. and when their attack speed is 2 autos per second doing 2k damage a second to squshies. thats burst.
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesOne thing gameplay doesnt understand
Burst kills sustain Sustain kills tank Tank stops burst
This triangle is too hard for gameplay to understand especially to people like you rofl
And lol what kind of stupid adc is going to build merc and bt at the same time lul
thats true. but the problem is range. thats the problem. not the damage
but the combination of range and damage is.
GULAG 4 U1 votesAdcs should be able to duel anybody other than assassins and duelists.
PermabannedGaren1 votesthey shouldn't. but adcs shoudln't be able to duel tanks.
Why not? You're already a gigantic disruption machine who can lock down entire teams with your utility and actually survive soaking up the enemy's CC, why should you also be able to 1v1 the ADC whose purpose in-game is killing things?
Also, not all ADCs can. You ever see Jhin try to duel a Maokai late game? Or an Amumu? Lol.
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesWhy not? You're already a gigantic disruption machine who can lock down entire teams with your utility and actually survive soaking up the enemy's CC, why should you also be able to 1v1 the ADC whose purpose in-game is killing things?
Also, not all ADCs can. You ever see Jhin try to duel a Maokai late game? Or an Amumu? Lol.
jhin is literally one of few adcs that can't duel much of anyone late game because he can't lifesteal that fast . one example. that is it.
the adc is supposed to get fucking peeled for to kill things. adcs aren't supposed to be able to 1v1 anybody. except vayne
standing an autoing. isn't 1v1ing. its bs. any adc. can literally. not move an inch. and just auto a tank and they'd lifesteal all the damage you do to them. thats bs and horrible design.
you can click on a tank watch a 10 second youtube video come back and you won the fight.
PermabannedGaren1 votesthe adc is supposed to get fucking peeled for to kill things.
Right, because in team fights it is very easy to kill the enemy ADC if they aren't peeled for, can't kite, or don't position well. In a 1v1 that matters less, since it's only one guy you're fighting.
adcs aren't supposed to be able to 1v1 anybody. except vayne
Based on? Can you actually cite Rito saying that ADCs are meant to be casually folded over 1v1 by tanks?
No, you just wish that's how the game worked. If you want to 1v1 an ADC play a mage, assassin, or fighter.
standing an autoing. isn't 1v1ing. its bs. any adc. can literally. not move an inch. and just auto a tank and they'd lifesteal all the damage you do to them. thats bs and horrible design.
Don't 1v1 the ADC then.
Whoa holy shit I just came up with the hot counterplay to dealing with them.
Do you cry and whine when Tryndamere does the same thing even more easily? Or Yi? Both can also casually face tank any ADC and stat check them as well. Even Vayne needs to kite them to potentially kill them 1v1 (which might work on Tryndamere, but not on a good Yi), because she can't stat check them.
Know your fucking role. Want to catch out a lone ADC and kill them? Play a burst mage, assassin, or duelist. Or the occasional tank that can do so, like Rammus.
Stick to team fighting. It's what tanks are good at.
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesRight, because in team fights it is very easy to kill the enemy ADC if they aren't peeled for, can't kite, or don't position well. In a 1v1 that matters less, since it's only one guy you're fighting.
Based on? Can you actually cite Rito saying that ADCs are meant to be casually folded over 1v1 by tanks?
No, you just wish that's how the game worked. If you want to 1v1 an ADC play a mage, assassin, or fighter.
Don't 1v1 the ADC then.
Whoa holy shit I just came up with the hot counterplay to dealing with them.
Do you cry and whine when Tryndamere does the same thing even more easily? Or Yi? Both can also casually face tank any ADC and stat check them as well. Even Vayne needs to kite them to potentially kill them 1v1 (which might work on Tryndamere, but not on a good Yi), because she can't stat check them.
Know your fucking role. Want to catch out a lone ADC and kill them? Play a burst mage, assassin, or duelist. Or the occasional tank that can do so, like Rammus.
Stick to team fighting. It's what tanks are good at.
lmao. aren't people supposed to catch off adcs or what? lol. really?
PermabannedGaren1 voteslmao. aren't people supposed to catch off adcs or what? lol. really?
Late game when they have 50%+ crit, lifesteal, and their armour pen item and it's a 1v1? Sure, if you're a champion equipped to do so.
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesLate game when they have 50%+ crit, lifesteal, and their armour pen item and it's a 1v1? Sure, if you're a champion equipped to do so.
lol.
PermabannedGaren1 votesit becomes impossible. and I mean. IMPOSSIBLE for tanks. to kill adcs. late game when they have a bt. they just can't they just soak. so much damage.
While not actually true as a concrete rule, good. Tanks shouldn't be jumping on carries and killing them like 5,000 health assassins. That's what they were doing in the tank cinderhulk meta in season five, and also briefly in this season when Nautilus top was the big boy of top lane.
ForgiveColour2 votesOut of all the adc stream you can watch you watch the trolliest washed up one lmao. Also pd sucks ball i dunno what you talking about. Do you even play the role?
And when did adc became a drain tank? Disgusting gameplay and biased trash tank mains lmao. Meanwhile 3k hp viktor vlad cass destroys tank and they are somehow considered squishy to you guys LOL
HongChongDong1 votesUh.... ever seen a tank that gets ahead? I've been in plenty of games where a tank has gotten ahead and itemized armor out the ass then those so called "Drain tanks" with even up to 2 lifesteal items would still kill themselves on the thornmail alone. It's not about itemization till pure late game, it's about who's ahead and in most cases tanks don't win lanes unless there's a gap in skill difference or someone fucked up and picked a stupid matchup into them. Besides even in the pure late game thornmail isn't supposed to kill the squishier champions, it's meant to help your team by doing off damage to them which slightly counters lifesteal when they're getting focused by multiple people and helps kill them faster.
Tychusfindlay9192 votesUh.... ever seen a tank that gets ahead? I've been in plenty of games where a tank has gotten ahead and itemized armor out the ass then those so called "Drain tanks" with even up to 2 lifesteal items would still kill themselves on the thornmail alone. It's not about itemization till pure late game, it's about who's ahead and in most cases tanks don't win lanes unless there's a gap in skill difference or someone fucked up and picked a stupid matchup into them. Besides even in the pure late game thornmail isn't supposed to kill the squishier champions, it's meant to help your team by doing off damage to them which slightly counters lifesteal when they're getting focused by multiple people and helps kill them faster.
I didn't say anything about thornmail should be killing squishies.
HongChongDong1 votesI didn't say anything about thornmail should be killing squishies.
And I was simply pointing out that thornmail isn't as bad you make it out to be.
aLawfulFalafel1 voteslmao no no you didnt
your talking about if the tank is ahead
you basically just said that people who are ahead are ahead
good job
HongChongDong1 voteslmao no no you didnt
your talking about if the tank is ahead
you basically just said that people who are ahead are ahead
good job
He was saying thornmail is shit because ADC's just counter it with lifesteal and I was saying that it doesn't work like that.
aLawfulFalafel1 votesUh.... ever seen a tank that gets ahead?
what? you may have been TRYING to say it doesn't work like that, but all you said is someone whos ahead is ahead
xxxDogmanxxx1 votesYou know what absolutely counters ? 
. Thornmail does less damage due to the magic resistance, Wit's End damage goes through Thornmail's armor completely.
Modl Ryden l1 votesOkay well you need you understand that the sole purpose of buying Thornmail on a tank isn't to 100-0 an ADC from them attacking you. It's just a a deterrent from attacking you, especially if you're zoning them from the rest of your team. With it you're more of a bouncer that won't let the enemy ADC interact unless they slice through you first.