Why I No Longer Support

Cats Are Food··58 votes·16,850 views

I have a very very old Icon, from years ago, for playing pretty much only support. I mained basically every support champion that had been released back to the original 40. I can't even attempt to support without almost raging at this point. Here's why:

  • If focused by the mandatory 2 assassins, my ADC disappears instantly. I don't Smartcast, so the 0.21 seconds my ADC survives isn't enough time to react. As MANY have commented, they don't last long enough even if you DO smartcast.

  • If I want to hope to salvage that, I need to play one of the mage "supports." All of which are actually mid lane champions, and only perform as support because they can kill bottom laners.

  • Everything about the actual supports has been nerfed or reworked like Soraka. People HATE a good support, so instead of changing their builds depending on which support they were against, they bitched to RIOT until the entire class was beat in the face. Shielding was nerfed, their damage was nerfed, their healing was nerfed. Movespeed lowered, and toughness destroyed.

125 Comments

Support 4 Lyfe24 votes

Like I've always said and will always say, they nerfed enchanters into oblivion and the single viable enchanter that was considered good got nerfed (Nami) and they didn't even nerf her damage, they nerfed her utility, just because she could stand her ground and not get "one-shot", it's not "fun" if you have a single healer that can stop people from one-shotting you or your teammates, that's why she got nerfed, she didn't even have a high pickrate and her ban rate was legit less than 1%.

Picking enchanters in this meta feels really bad, if you heal/shield your allies, they one-shot you, if you heal/shield yourself, they one-shot your teammates, it feels really awful, even burst healers and shielders (Soraka/Karma) are in a really bad spot know because everyone dies way too fast for you to even react, and with the support items nerf and the shield nerfs, they feel even worse.

I started playing champions like Zyra, Brand, Veigar, Leona and Alistar and I've been winning way more because I either burst them or chain-cc them while also dealing tons of damage and being tanky, it's a one-shot them or get one-shot meta and it honestly feels bad for both enchanter supports and adcs because they're not only squishy, they need alot of items to also be viable, unlike Alistar, Leona, Zyra or Brand, they literally only need a support item and boots.

Try playing Soraka/Sona early game and see how bad it is to function without items, not only are the mana costs high, they also scale awfully bad, unlike Brand, you only need sorc shoes and T2 support item to legitimately one-shot either the adc or support.

Cats Are Food7 votes

Exactly. You've either been left playing a CC tank, or a midlane mage. I had better luck supporting with a Kassadin awhile back, and haven't been able to stomach the role since. I've tried, but it just feels like I'm running Mid against two opponents.

Nea10411 votes

{quoted}

I started playing champions like Zyra, Brand, Veigar, Leona and Alistar and I've been winning way more because I either burst them or chain-cc them while also dealing tons of damage and being tanky, it's a one-shot them or get one-shot meta and it honestly feels bad for both enchanter supports and adcs because they're not only squishy, they need alot of items to also be viable, unlike Alistar, Leona, Zyra or Brand, they literally only need a support item and boots.

Perfect summary.

Also, don't forget who has been the new announced """support""" Pyke . Nor what his creator, surely very smart and competent with his work, said: "Chasing the possibility of a pentakill on a support is awesome."

This kind of people still works on this game, so it's veeery likely that Season 9 is gonna get any better :/

LordGeovanni4 votes

I dont think pyke is bad design but rather bad balance with far too much in base damage (and ability wind ups) and not enough ad scaling on his spells and far too much base damage on his ult His ad scaling is just fine (yes im saying it needs less damage) that ult should not be over 1/3 of a health stacking bruisers hp bar and it reached halfway for most of them.

Nea1045 votes

Still, that thing is not a support. This company has basically killed that role, as a big part of the whole game, making it just another damage dealer / trigger for damage dealers (ie. the cc chain stuff and so on).

What OP said is sadly true. League has gone, and what has left is a Fortnite-like perma-skirmishing, based on who bursts who first. Nothing else required.

Disgusting, IMHO.

dome0254 votes

I don´t see a problem in having an "assassine support". However it´s a problem if the kit is poorly designed and if overall damage is too high. If those 2 things aren´t the case an assassine support would be fine and an interesting alternative.

Cats Are Food5 votes

The problem with an Assassin Support is right there in the name.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Why?

Support 4 Lyfe1 votes

A support usually "supports" their team, hence the word support, Assassin """support""" kills other people, they don't support their team, they get their team kills like every other champion that isn't classified as a support, you wouldn't call Talon or Zed a support, would you?

dome0252 votes

A support can support their team in different ways than directly buffing or protecting them through shields/heals or abilities like Tahm´s W.

Blitz for example doesn´t have any ability which directly supports an ally. He was even designed to be a toplaner but got shoved into the support role by players and Riot.

And Leo who was designed to be a support, has just her passive to help allies which only provides some extra damage. Everything else in her kit is just cc. Alistar is another example who only has a passive who heals allies (since they swapped his passive with his e), everything else is just cc.

And if you say "bUt Cc sUpPortS tHe TEaM", then champs like Vi or Ekko/Fizz/LeBlanc/Evelynn/Nocturne would be supports too (and every tank would be a supprt -> Seju, Zac). An assassine support would have cc and moderate damage.

I would even go as far and say Pyke almost is what an assassine should be. He can engage and disengage rather safely so he doesn´t need to kill a target with one rotation/ one engage (unlike Zed or Talon who will be useless if they don´t). Making it healthier for the enemy to play against when Pyke can´t just oneshot them with a single rotation while Pyke doesn´t get instantly killed or punished too hard for not instantly killing a target. (again the passage above assumes that overall damage and Pyke´s damage wouldn´t be busted)

LordGeovanni1 votes

Support being a role that exists to use low amounts of gold. is the only reason why supports are a role not to specifically baby sit anyone. Not to mention pyke has more than enough cc to act as a real support like Leona Or taric (if he can ever get in range to auto attack and survive long enough to auto attack)

IP Masquerena2 votes

Meanwhile Sona is an S tier support in the higher elos while Nami is jumping around A and S tier.

Yea....weak...

Support 4 Lyfe7 votes

Sona literally has less than 2.1% pickrate and her banrate is legit less than 0.5%, which means she's literally ONLY played by her mains lol, compare her to Thresh, who has a 51% winrate and has a 28% pickrate AND 12.6% banrate, let's not forget Alistar who has a 15.2% pickrate and a 51% winrate or Leona who has a 10.5% pickrate and a 51% winrate.

Let's not forget that Sona has a low skill-floor, of course she will always have a high winrate, Thresh who is supposed to have a "high-skill floor" has a higher pickrate/winrate ratio than Sona by far.

IP Masquerena3 votes

Janna has 51.5% winrate, 4.6% pickrate and 0.09% banrate and has a low skill floor as well, yet she's nowhere close to S tier.

Sona and Nami are the two enchanter supports who have been either both or one of them in S tier for supports for like 10 patches or so, if not more.

ZaFishbone11 votes

Learn to smartccast then. And there are plenty of non mage supports who still work eg.: Blitz, Tresh, Shen, Leona.

I really can't feel sympathetic towards someone who can't improve and adapt at all. At least say that your favorite class of supports has been nerfed, don't diss a whole role because of your particular hang-ups.

Cats Are Food10 votes

So... CC tanks, which have been discussed, and rudeness for no reason.

Neat.

Nea1044 votes

Don't mind to argue with a guy still thinking it's about "adapting", after all that has happened during Season 8. These people never learn, luckily life usually teach them something, eventually. :)

Cats Are Food3 votes

I had no intentions of arguing with him. Being told to adapt after having been here since Beta, through all the changes, is a tad silly.

Dragons6 votes

{quoted}

Learn to smartccast then. And there are plenty of non mage supports who still work eg.: Blitz, Tresh, Shen, Leona.

I really can't feel sympathetic towards someone who can't improve and adapt at all. At least say that your favorite class of supports has been nerfed, don't diss a whole role because of your particular hang-ups.

This guy is right. What's up with the down votes. You need to use smartcast to be competitive in the call of duty one shot meta. Not using smartcast is like trying to use a controller instead of a keyboard.

Kaisha3 votes

A shield/heal is not going to stop any assassin, adc, or jungler from delete'ing your adc if they are caught out or anything goes remotely wrong. Even the tanky supports are only mediocre. Apart from ali the rest are just a joke (even Leona, THE support tank still can't save an ally).

Everyone just runs around delete'ing each other. There's no counter-play, there's no strategy, you just kill them before they kill you, anything less is an exercise in futility.

Cats Are Food2 votes

Because he told a Beta player to adapt? Someone who has seen more changes over almost ten years than he ever will, and might complain once a year or so? Also told someone with a net positive winrate over nearly 30,000 games that Smart Cast is the only way to play - despite performing exceptionally well in all roles except the one complained about?

Haven't really done ranked, other than poking at it last season to see if it was as bad as everyone said, since Season 2 - wherein my name is still in credits for the early tournaments as Felreaper - but he walked in with the instant presumption that someone is a lesser player because he doesn't devote endless hours to Ranked. Some of us have kids and jobs now days.

LordGeovanni5 votes

Cant improve or adapt at all. Like adc Mains everytime they cry weak and lethality meta and tank meta (who adcs are supposedly supposed to be strong against mind you) instead of dropping damage to build defense if they die too fast?

Midg3t8 votes

Your first 2 points are kinda you own problem, to quote IWD 'Either you adapt or you die'. But with the 3rd option I fully agree. There were ways to counter healing, and nowadays you have was to counter shields aswell, and instead of adapting people cried for nerfs.

Cats Are Food12 votes

I adapted by shifting lanes lol.

Midg3t7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HHfj8mEQ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-12-11T13:55:29.136+0000)

I adapted by shifting lanes lol.

Adapting would be learning how to play with smartcast and mage/meta supports. You just gave up from the role. Not that I judge youm if you have fun on other lanes, thats good :D

Cats Are Food2 votes

To be fair, I've refused to use Smart casting because of an honest belief it should have stayed as a training tool in only bot games. That one IS on me, but I still manage quite well.

Indeed. I've had a blast focusing on top and mid. Back in Seasons 1-2 I was the jack-of-all-trades guy on my team, so moving lanes wasn't a big thing to me.

HeeroTX6 votes

The number of people truly willing to play a SUPPORT (by which I mean, not the "role" but "not a carry") was deemed too small because "it's not fun". So Riot has slowly but surely been trying to remove the role. The problem this presents at HIGH level play is that all the utility provided by a good support can negate a scaling carry (which is why the META was what it was and SHOULD always be). But getting a good TEAM is hard, and rather than do the HARD work of trying to develop the community (which is NOT easy) Riot just said "f' it" and figured it's easier to design "team deathmatch" where 5 randos can play what they "want" and its all "fun" while still being viable.

The only way this works is either a) the "utility" role is so weak that skilled utility can't definitely overcome damage or b) make damage SO high that the utility doesn't really matter.

Ugly Alien6 votes

Support should be what it literally means "SUPPORT"

Support your team get kills Support with heals Support with shields Support with cc Support with buffs Support with tanking Support with vision

It should NOT be with support getting KILLS!!! It's common now to see support getting most kills or doing most damage.

This game is all about getting kills, even stupid new champs like Pyke, it's all about pressing R and get cheap kills. I hate this model. Supports should not get kills. They should get assists! It's becoming a one dimensional game, everyone wants kills.

Just to show how bad it is, you will hear a support player complain, "Hey! why did you kill steal?!!". I'm like are you freaking kidding me!!!!

It's all about kills now, that's the only one dimensional path Riot has taken us.

3TWarrior2 votes

I've had that happen in earlier seasons. The marksman was playing badly so I started playing selfishly to improve my gold by getting kills, then suddenly the marksman decides to make plays and take my kills, like what?

I mean, it's good for them to learn, but it really feels awful for them to ignore what you've done for half the laning phase and then "oh, look, I can get free gold from this!"

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Best Vi Earth5 votes

as a long time support i feel you fam. when mage supports were first introduced or i guess discovered i was very against it. i always thought they play them because they are just bad at support. i mean i was right because i always played leona and blitz i exploded all over them. but as time went on and the assassin meta hit. supports kinda just faded so mage supports has to take over or us true support mains would be left behind. i hated having to switch it up. but i must say i had fun playing zyra and annie support. i also hated the soraka change. used to bait people by maxing heal and over extending "oh look im the caught out support" then healing myself get that dank armor buff and have my adc clean up. that shit was awesome. then the mid/top raka assholes ruined her

Support 4 Lyfe2 votes

RIP Old Soraka heal that gave 110 armor, you will definitely be missed item 3070

Sweet an Sour5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HHfj8mEQ,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-11T11:59:37.244+0000)

I have a very very old Icon, from years ago, for playing pretty much only support. I mained basically every support champion that had been released back to the original 40. I can't even attempt to support without almost raging at this point. Here's why:

  • If focused by the mandatory 2 assassins, my ADC disappears instantly. I don't Smartcast, so the 0.21 seconds my ADC survives isn't enough time to react.

  • If I want to hope to salvage that, I need to play one of the mage "supports." All of which are actually mid lane champions, and only perform as support because they can kill bottom laners.

  • Everything about the actual supports has been nerfed or reworked like Soraka. People HATE a good support, so instead of changing their builds depending on which support they were against, they bitched to RIOT until the entire class was beat in the face. Shielding was nerfed, their damage was nerfed, their healing was nerfed. Movespeed lowered, and toughness destroyed.

I was just thinking about this last night. I main Soraka, Janna and Lulu and have lost most of my games because I can't help as well as i used to. I get taken out easily with all of the Lux, Brand and even heim supports- it literally makes me not want to play because I adore these champions have have played them since I joined in s2.

Riot needs to listen and help bring the real supports back please.

[sg-soraka]

Handy Sandy 1 votes

Riot needs to listen and help bring the real supports back please.

The only non traditional support played is brand, who is the 9th most popular atm. Then there's Lux at 13. Pyke is #3 but other than that it's all melee engage sups and enchanters. Aren't they already back?

Sweet an Sour1 votes

{quoted}

The only non traditional support played is brand, who is the 9th most popular atm. Then there's Lux at 13. Pyke is #3 but other than that it's all melee engage sups and enchanters. Aren't they already back?

Not completely- I've seen many malzahars, velkoz, chogath, teemos and even poppy and now neeko.

Atmosphere5 votes

I play Alistar, Thresh, Leona, and Rakan mostly. Mastery 7 on all three. I'm currently in the transition of support to mid for a lot of the same reasons you are. Even with the tankiness and CC of those supports, damage is too high to be able to keep a carry alive in most situations. Nobody is perfect, and perfection is what's required to keep your teammate alive. It feels hopeless to try, so I'm giving up. Know you're not alone in this hellhole of a season/pre-season

Νami4 votes

They're actually going to buff some of the forgotten idol items.

Not sure on specifics but I'm looking forward to see what they do.

XL BENCH PRESS4 votes

There are definitely viable Supports still. Thresh still kicks ass, Rakan is often a nightmare to deal with, and a good Alistar can still wreck hard. There are a few others for sure, but these are the first ones to come to mind.

Also, I think the presence of 'mid laner supports' as you call them is not a bad thing at all. Lux Morgana Zyra Fiddlesticks are a lot of fun in the bottom lane, so in my opinion it's a positive change.

"Change... is good" Khazix

Cats Are Food3 votes

CC tanks were dicussed in a comment below.

B04LeJo11 votes

[{quoted}](name=XL BENCH PRESS,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HHfj8mEQ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-11T13:53:53.894+0000)

There are definitely viable Supports still. Thresh still kicks ass, Rakan is often a nightmare to deal with, and a good Alistar can still wreck hard. There are a few others for sure, but these are the first ones to come to mind.

Also, I think the presence of 'mid laner supports' as you call them is not a bad thing at all. Lux Morgana Zyra Fiddlesticks are a lot of fun in the bottom lane, so in my opinion it's a positive change.

"Change... is good" Khazix

Uh, change is not everytime good. And it may be fun to play Zyra/Brand/Lux but as an enemy you dont have fun. Zyra needs ONE e on you and youre dead. Yeah, you can dodge, but if you dont dodge it only once, youre dead. this is depressing

Also, ofc some supports are still viable. But the problem is that there are too many supps that you cant play without thinking at least once in a game why you didnt delete LoL yet. Its stupid when your enemy tries to kill your adc and while he does that he kills you as well without even focosing you.

Götterdämmerung4 votes

Even as an Assassin main, I think we should buff supports. Lets start by buffing support items. It is insane that the quest completion time is around 10-18 minutes nowadays.

saltran2 votes

Haha no, buffing supps as a role it's not an option.

Buff weak supps? That's fine.

Rabbi Shekelberg4 votes

Because flashy play play making supports are a lot more fun to watch in the LCS than walking handjobs

Cats Are Food4 votes

Yeah, because the game should revolve entirely around LCS... which, you know, WE PAY FOR.

Dorans Pants4 votes

As a support main who´s roster consists mostly of

when serious Bard Soraka Zilean Nami for fun Orianna Annie Pyke Poppy Thresh Xerath stopped playing Taric Braum Lulu

who abused Lulu when she was strong, all I can say is that the concept of mage-supports and supports like pyke may be one of the better changes to the support role, which doesn´t mean much considering the fact that riot usually just fucks with the support-role and punishes it every time other roles exploit the tools it needs to even function, but I digress.

The reason I tend to favor mage-supports over the "traditional supports" aka enchanters + a few tanks is that compared to those, mages-supports have a huge impact in the early game, while also scaling well into the late game and more importantly are completely self-sufficient. By closer inspection, a lot of supports actually scale backwards in terms of efficiency seeing how tank-supports usually get outscaled by dmg dealers unless they have integrated dmg reduction, and can´t frontline properly, while engage-potential and target accessibility increase as the game progresses.

which ironically makes enchanters, the role that is supposed to combat quick and focused attacks, less and less effective as their self-peel is too slow, telegraphed and often to weak to survive in this high-burst-high-mobility-meta. Positioning has always been a huge factor when playing these squishy enchanters and in an environment with less dmg and mobility, this has been a reasonable approach, but now that burst has gone so out of hand, correct positioning is just a joke now that is parroted by people who benefit from the overabundance of mobility and are usually not on the receiving end.

But even if you fixed those issues and buffed enchanters, for example, you would still face the same problem we always had since the inception of that role. The fact that it´s a mandatory role that like 90% of the player base doesn´t want to play because it´s not well integrated into the game and gives the player barely any incentives to chose this role over others.

Pick a tank and now you are a lesser tank, who does everything a top-lane tank would do but worse. Pick an enchanter and now you are playing a class that, by design, can only work in conjunction with your teammates. And with the exception of rare occasions where your decision can have a huge impact on the game you are usually a walking stat-stick for your carry. A playstyle as passive and thoughtless as it can get. And the concept behind these rare, highly impactful decisions is also so disheartening when you look deeper into it because everything you do, be it shielding, healing or ccing enemies is transferring power to your carries, while you wield no power by yourself.

This is problematic for two reasons. A: you need a very selfless person to pilot these champs. and B: those people must not have a competitive mindset when playing the game. And it´s problematic because most people take a lot of their enjoyment out of these power fantasies which are not or barely present in the support role and even if some people are not interested in such things many are still held back by the fact that you usually want as much agency over your matches as possible when playing the game, which is the exact opposite of what you do when playing support. You take all the power you champ possesses and give it to strangers who either win or lose you the game. There is the argument left that the power is often multiplied rather than added and can, therefore, make a difference, but imo it´s still a huge gamble and often not worth the risk.

This extends as far as to the extreme cases where playing support in low divisions is just sabotaging yourself. It´s a sad realization because saying that a supportive playstyle can´t exist in this game is like saying teamplay can´t exist in this game, but it´s the conclusion I draw and so I see the transition from dependent to independent supports as a logical progression to bring them more in line with the other roles.

There is still a lot more, that makes the support role unattractive, but I think the post is already long enough.

tldr: sucking your carries off for half an hour is uninteresting and unrewarding for 90% of the players. League isn´t really a teamgame anyway (solo que), so having one lonely role centered around it to the detriment to the one unlucky bastard who has to play it is stupid. Let them have fun too.

And I am genuinely sorry for the few support mains that really enjoy the role as it is (was) and now get overrun by mage- and other pseudocarry-supports.

[sg-soraka]

Linna Excel3 votes

I think riot only wants champs capable of #LCSbigplays as supports and not traditional champs. I think it's all about watchablity so champs that aren't seen as interesting to viewers are ones riot tries to push aside.

AirKingNeo3 votes

If focused by the mandatory 2 assassins, my ADC disappears instantly. I don't Smartcast, so the 0.21 seconds my ADC survives isn't enough time to react.

Mandatory assassins? No one plays assassins. Mages are meta mid lane.

If I want to hope to salvage that, I need to play one of the mage "supports." All of which are actually mid lane champions, and only perform as support because they can kill bottom laners.

Except the best supports are Alistar and Braum.

Everything about the actual supports has been nerfed or reworked like Soraka. People HATE a good support, so instead of changing their builds depending on which support they were against, they bitched to RIOT until the entire class was beat in the face. Shielding was nerfed, their damage was nerfed, their healing was nerfed. Movespeed lowered, and toughness destroyed.

Shielding and healing was nerfed because Lulu and Janna shielded for half people's health.

3TWarrior2 votes

actually, both mages and assassins are meta but assassins have a higher play rate, so there's that

world wide, the classes are split evenly 50/50 in the top 10 picks from iron to diamond

The Trent2 votes

I still see good Soraka's and Janna's stomping in certain situations tho. Rakkan, being one of the less enchantery enchanters is still decent right now in the hands of a good player too. I honestly hate how mid lane mages are being pushed to bot lane right now. It feels bad knowing how much damage a Brand is going to do if you destroy them or not. It just feels like you get completely out valued. I think they made support into a more casual role. It used to be no one liked playing it, so when you got a real support it was amazing. Now they made it into a pick your favorite burst mage and don't do any of the actual support stuff, just try to 1 shot the enemy team actual support before they can do anything. It's like all the mid lane mains were complaining about support FOR THE SUPPORT MAINS. People always complained about how support was a boring role and how it felt useless, even though all us support mains KNEW THAT WASN'T THE CASE AT ALL. Now the support out values the adc in damage, literally carrying the game. A good support back in the day carried through cc, shields, wards and making smart plays. Now you just kinda burst someone to death. People are literally complaining about how much damage is being pumped into the game, but in reality, they nerfed one of the only things in the game that countered damage. A good support. For heavens sake, lulu's polymorph's travel time is too long to stop an assassin for one shotting my adc, so that means if I don't have R up, they're practically dead.

ChallengerSoraka2 votes

EXACTLY THIS, I COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER

Ηuawei2 votes

I agree 100% with what you said.

As a person who mained support enchanters, Riot has forced me to quit me playing them and switch to other roles or champions and it feels BAD.

VERY BAD.

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