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I would like to have a 0-toxicity argument regarding the current states of some champions right now

koshkyra··7 votes·1,096 views

Give me all your thoughts, and take all of mine. I would love to have a simple, no-toxicity argument about some champions and I will try to answer as many comments as possible to further this argument. Feel free to even make posts with your opinions in them in response to this one. If you dont think you can argue without being toxic, i understand, but please do not comment on this.

Lets get this started with the first of six champions i would like to talk about.

Tristana

Tristana is considered a little weak right now and frankly im extremely confused. I consider her incredibly strong right now. She has a (correct me if im wrong) 110% attack speed boost for 7 seconds. This is bonkers! How is this considered weak? You're going to be shredding people in like 0.5 seconds lategame with this!

Its not excactly like she has a bad laning phase either. She gets 30% bonus attack speed for 7 seconds at level 1, and a pretty long-range gapcloser that also resets. It doesnt even need to reset on kills, you just have to AA a champion four times to reset it. I dont get how anyone kills her, this is perhaps the longest range gap-closer on an ADC and it doesnt even have that much of a delay. Give me your thoughts please because i am truly confused how she is considered low-tier.

Cho'Gath

Now, this champion is the main reason why i made this post. I have made multiple posts before about ChoGath and ended up deleting them because people would end up not reading my posts fully and spamming "LULZ LEARN TO KITE NUB XDXD" or "VIDEO OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN LIAR" and its like, hey, can we have an ACTUAL argument about this champion? Anyway, i really dont get how ChoGath is fair. He can build basically full tank and his ultimate will still oneshot squishy champions from like 90% health and down. You can try to kite him, but he can either flash or use his Q/E (both ranged abilities) and keep you from doing anything while he kills you quickly. Honestly i think Cho is in need of a rework. Thoughts?

Syndra

Similar to ChoGath, her ultimate can easily oneshot any squishy and all she needs to do is place 1-2 balls beforehand. Doesnt even have to hit them. Just places them down and nukes the squishy. Doesnt feel very fair to me, please give me your ideas. (PS: nobody say Zhonyas. Zhonyas has a longer cooldown than Syndras ult.)

Kayle

So. You can do whatever you want to Kayle. Burst her, CC her, focus her, she still isnt dying before you are. She can easily kill someone in 1.5-2 seconds and has a slow for you and MS boost for her so theres no way you can escape. She has a (i think im right) 3.5 second invulnerability and, yes, you can cc her, but then you wasted your CC ability and other people will jump on you when its down. Or she will just kill you when its over because Kayle.

Diana

Like Tristana, Diana is considered low-tier ATM and i cant see why. Diana can kill you in like 0.5 seconds late and maybe 2-3 seconds once she hits 6 with ignite. Shes also somewhat Tanky and has an anti-burst W so, yknow, goodluck killing her, mages! Im really not sure as to why she needs to have Burst damage (QRR), tankiness (W), and sustained damage (Passive, W) because it feels very unfair and its why shes on this list.

Nami

Nami feels pretty weak to me. Shes not very effective if you dont land her bubble (which is hard to land imo) and her wave isnt very hard to dodge either. Her heals are mediocre and her E is mainly used for the passive speed boost. Thoughts?

38 Comments

bloodybadger15 votes

my opinion is that the philosophy of riot is that all champions come and go. if one is strong, instead of complaining about it i try to think of ways to counter it. if all else fails i try to ban. I think riot does a wonderful job of balance considering there are 130+ champs or something. i believe that if a champion has a clear weakness then they are balanced for me.

Tristana: her w is insanely easy to predict and stop. tristana typically uses her e and q together so when they are down there is a clear time to initiate and play against her. I think she is fairly balanced in this regard.

syndra (and cho) is hit or miss for me. as an ad main i hate her, but i believe she is ok because the control aspect of her playstyle comes from her ult. avoid that and you can easily beat her (in teamfights, i dont know how to play against her in lane-not a mid main). if she holds it for too long and/or is zoned by a tank she is fairly useless as a control mage. cho is easily kited and cant dodge cc because his character is too big and slow moving. faces the same problem as darius. cho's q is easy to dodge since movement is so prevalent in league

kayle- bait ult, don't use abilities when she ults, save exh for when she ults, easy to burst after its down. easy to gank. easy to trade with her when she has her e down esp when she uses e primarily to farm.

diana- not sure why she is lower tier. probably just because of meta and because other people are flat out stronger.

nami- dont play her but i assume its because tanky utility supports seem to be the meta rn. her e is not used for the passive speed boost, its to enhance the adc's aa's and slow whoever he hits. makes ur q easier to hit ( i find nami bubble is easy to hit). nami trade is amazing level 1 and 2. keep aa'ing level one until they decide to run or do something about it then just w yourself and typically you'll heal up any retaliation damage and hit them and if your lucky have it bounce back to your adc.

Critmaster Garen5 votes

i dont understand the discussions around tristana either.

yea, she isnt hard carrying games on a regular basis, but in return youre playing literally the only marksman whos safer than ezreal and cait.

that and include the fact that cait, draven and twitch are bonkers and need nerfs, she is exactly where she should be.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Tristana says good as long as Shiv stays a good item.

Evil Yasuo4 votes

Tristana-I guess where she needs to be

Cho-a bit bullshit considering what he's supposed to be. I don't think any tank that unkillable should be able to do that much true damage. He has too much endgame for feeding

syndra-fine. She does what she needs to do

kayle-don't know much about this champion but I think her items are a bit weak (the guinsoos) She could use some tweaking whether it's a buff or adjustments

diana-a bit weak but can also snowball extremely hard. Her rework should be good.

nami-fine

Makior722 votes

Tristana Honestly don't know enough about her to make any real intelligent argument, I just hate playing against her as Leona because she can just jump out of my E even after it has already landed and I think that's a bit unfair =/

Chogath My justification for cho being how he is is this. His ult is melee range, don't let him get near you. On top of that, unless he is building damage (in which case he would be less tanky) cho can't really carry a game by himself, he relies too much on his team. Now in an organized 5v5 this may not be an issue for cho, but in solo queue it would absolutely be a reason to not even use him.

Syndra Her R basically has no counterplay in my book, it needs a nerf, make it an execute type ability or something, but she shouldn't get an "I win" button in place of her R.

Kayle Kayle by herself isn't so big of an issue, its certain comps that make her a pain (Master yi + Kayle for instance) however, she can still be CC'd like anyone else, including whoever she uses her ult on. So there is counter play here. Also her abilities don't have a ton of range to them, so she can be harassed by ranged champions when she goes for trades, farm, engage, what have you. Really feel she's only an effective pick in bronze/silver.

Diana Not a good team fighter, at all imo. like pretty much every other assassin right now, she falls off really hard unless she gets fed early.

Nami Nami is hard countered very easily, and I would not first pick her as a support if I could help it. But, she makes a great support if you are against a poke heavy bot lane. If i'm playing support, and see a Karma, a Cait, a Brand, etc, Nami is my go to. However because of the way her bubble works, (small aoe, travel time for the bubble) she's not a support most people can just pick up and use well. I had to play about 16 games back to back without stopping on name before I finally got to a point where I could use her well. And most of that was just being able to land my bubbles.

Captain Aishi1 votes

kayle is currently one of the highest winrate toplaners in plat+

i'd say she's problematic because her ult makes it impossible to burst down a hypercarry on her team, and there's always a kayle on her team

nyakasgoods2 votes

I played a bit of Tristana since I got her legendary from crafting, and while she never felt weak I always noticed a few disadvantages that plague her constantly. First of all, and probably the worst, is that her E passive forces her to push the lane no matter what you do, even if you don't want to, because of the aoe damage upon grabbing cs. Against a high pressure jungler and an aggressive support, it feels pretty bad to permapush lane even if you're trying to just sit back and farm. In addition, her jump is really slow and has a long cd, meaning that a competent enemy support can really punish Trist hard by ccing her during her lengthy cast time or at some point during its 22 second cooldown if she's forced to use it defensively.

In terms of Chogath, he's one of my personal least favorite champs in the game, for two reasons. First of all, his passive feels awful to lane against because poke doesn't matter to him, he is greatly rewarded for just getting cs, and he can do it under tower too with E. Secondly, he's ridiculously binary. Laning against him is like against Blitzcrank but worse because you can't even hide behind minions. If you get hit by his Q, he will deal a boatload of damage to you and there's not much you can do about that. On the other hand, if he doesn't hit his Q, he's pretty useless for a while, until he gets it back and again becomes a massive threat.

Finally, Nami. When I first considered adding her to my champ pool, I thought she was pretty mediocre just like you. Then I played her for a while and realized that she's actually really good. Let's go top to bottom. Her passive, while not exactly unique or super impactful, is still pretty useful. It allows her to poke in lane much more safely than other supports with a similar range, and can be used to help your team kite or chase. Not great, but not terrible.

Her Q is a very powerful cc. It's aoe, cheap, and a 1.5s suspension at rank all ranks. Its main drawback is that it's hard to land, but from my experience, it's no harder than landing Thresh hooks (more than 3x mastery points on Thresh than Nami btw). It's especially potent against supports who like to be near their ad, and can be chained out of either of her other ccs.

Her W is an absolutely phenomenal spell. A 185 hp heal seems weak on paper, especially for its hefty 130 mana cost at rank 5, but it's actually very efficient due to its bounces. If she bounces it on an enemy, she can move herself forward and hit both opponents for 119-391 total damage (ranks 1-5) while healing herself for 55-157 hp, all in one ability, and it can be used during an unfavorable trade to heal herself and the adc, and give movespeed to disengage or chase if the heal turns the trade worth.

Her E is a vastly underrated ability. While you claim it's only used for the passive, it can deal 75 damage at rank one, and applies a solid slow for a potential 3 seconds. It lets her run up in lane, deliver an empowered auto or two, and perhaps follow up with a harder to dodge Q due to the slow. Later on, it scales up to a 35% slow, which can be very useful for catching out stragglers without dumping any of her main cc.

Her ult, I will admit, is rather lackluster, but it's still by no means bad. Its primary use it to be chained out of a cc, so Q > R or E > R > Q is a nice chain cc she has for a very long time, 2.5 seconds of hard cc plus a potential 3s slow.

(Oh god that's a lot of text)

Mini Magnus2 votes

It's kind of cute how you get the idea that Diana is OP from (as far as I can tell) one game you lost versus a plat 3 guy when you're silver 4 yourself. Also, your two most played champs, Lux and Liss, should never get killed by a Diana unless you fuck up massively.

I guess it's a good thing you're not in charge of game balance.

koshkyra2 votes

[{quoted}](name=420 Doge Wtf,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HHFNPlbm,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2017-07-07T04:10:55.353+0000)

It's kind of cute how you get the idea that Diana is OP from (as far as I can tell) one game you lost versus a plat 3 guy when you're silver 4 yourself. Also, your two most played champs, Lux and Liss, should never get killed by a Diana unless you fuck up massively.

I guess it's a good thing you're not in charge of game balance.

First of all, my two most played champs are LeBlanc and Janna. Second, i was in no way referring to one specific diana match. Third, i politely asked for a

0 toxicity argument

Yet you say

you're silver 4

unless you fuck up massively

i guess its a good thing youre not in charge of game balance

This discussion doesnt want you and it definently wont have you. Goodbye.

Mini Magnus1 votes

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but it's simply the truth that low elo's are the only ones who would ever claim that Diana is anywhere near OP. Have you looked at her stats in platinum and above? http://champion.gg/champion/diana/Middle

46.6 % winrate and a 0.8 % pick rate. She is literally only over Lucian and Karma in winrate when it comes to champions that Riot hasn't left in a garbage state because they can't be balanced (Azir and Ryze). I don't follow competitive league but I know for a fact that she doesn't see much play there either, if any.

Most Diana mains, myself included, are all in agreement that she is in a terrible spot right now. It has come to the point where I consider Diana jungle to be a troll pick in any elo above gold 3, and playing mid vs semi-competent people is extremely difficult - you might as well play any other champ besides her, that's how outclassed she is. The buffs she are getting on Wednesday are very much necessary.

Shadòw1 votes

Tristana

She isn't weak, she is actually coming back in the META right now. She even got picked in pro play fairly often atm.

Chogath

Yes he is in need of a rework. His high point and click damage is compensated by him being one of the most slow and immobile champions in the game. You can easily stay away from him or kite him. But i agree that the champ is BS and still needs a rework.

Syndra

She can basically oneshot a squishy, but, like you said, she needs to put down spheres first because her Ult Damage relies on it. In that time you should either engage or disengage. A very big part of her power budged lies in her Ult, so if you consider that you should be able to handle her pretty well. If you need items against her, an item 3156 counters her pretty hard as it can absorb a good part of her Ults Burst and also gives MR. As AP, yes item 3157.

Why you would argument with CD doesn't make sense to me. When you know her Ult is coming back up (has a CD of 120/100/80 without CDR while Zhonyas has 120) and you still have no Zhonyas, just don't fight her and be careful to not get stunned. It's usually only a relatively small time window in which you have to play save.

Kayle

needs and gets a rework too, is also a BS champ imo. well once she gets some items in her current state it's gg. you need to focus her down early, for best ask your jungler for ganks as she is vulnerable to ganks early, and punish her team in the time she needs to farm up. get turrets and objectives while you can. for best kill her with your team/jungler (you'll need to coordinate) on lane and punish that, for example by quickly destroying the turret as 2, getting tower fb and using that lead to get other objectives. if kayle reaches late gg.

Diana

dunno she is pretty weak atm for me.

yes, she can kill you in 3 seconds on lane with ignite, but for that she has to hit her whole combo, including 2, and you would also have to stand completely still.

you also have abilities that you can use in that 3 seconds to either push her off yourself, escaping or turning around, depending on your champion.

Nami

don't know that much about Namis state, but i wouldn't consider her weak.

Big Lincoln1 votes

cho should lose stoneplate interaction in return for better base kit, E changes are great

All I think should happen to him tbh

warpenguin5551 votes

Trist- IMO shes a part of a bigger problem. Marksmen are always monopolized and the ones that are the best at abusing OP crap are the only ones that get played, and when they can't abuse something it shifts back to picking the safest Marksman. Right now it's Energizer/Lifesteal, before that it was the safest ones, before that Lethaity and it just goes on and on. I could make an entire post on Marksmen but as you said with your Cho'Gath point, I'd just delete them before I complete the post because I don't feel like anyone will end up reading it. It just comes down to there being 0 balance in the class.

Cho'Gath- Im perfectly fine with him. He's probably the only tank I'd willing play right now if I was top lane and needed to pick one. I don't think he's that unreasonable. He doesn't do much without Ulting. I do think he could use a VGU, but he's not a Tier 1.

Syndra- Im fucking tired of this champ. So damn bored of seeing her (along with Ori and LeBlanc) in pro play. I'd gladly go back to an Azir meta if it means shes gone. Good riddance. Atleast I don't see her too often in my games.

Kayle- Speaking of Tier 1 VGU options. It astounds me that Kayle wasn't in the Poppy-Taric-Urgot-Yorick group. Thank god she has a low play rate. Completely unfair design.

Diana- Im nervous as hell about the next patch because of her rework. I have no clue how to play against her. My mid lane pool is mostly short ranged stuff Malzahar Swain Karthus Taliyah. It's really annoying how once she hits 6 I'm just zoned out. Doesn't matter if I dodge Q either because it's on a short CD at 6. I haven't played the last 3 on the the vs her, maybe Swain has a chance but Karthus will get mauled and my reaction time isn't the best so unless it's super telegraphed im probably not going be able to get a Taliyah E down and get her that way. I'd just really rather not play vs her in lane and consider myself lucky that the only one I saw while on my climb to gold was really bad.

Nami- I'm loving Nami right now. Got a little tired of Bard so I picked her up for a few games and she's pretty awesome. I think she's in a good spot but I do agree with her E being underwhelming.

koshkyra1 votes

Syndra- Im fucking tired of this champ. So damn bored of seeing her (along with Ori and LeBlanc) in pro play.

Right? I fucking hate Syndra and Ori being pick or ban in basically every elo and pro play.

However, i main LeBlanc and am therefore too biased to talk about her lmao.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

The entire ADC class is a design failure that should be scrapped. They're impossible to balance because either they define the meta, like how they do now and have in every season except the beginning of season 7, or are complete garbage like they were at the beginning of season 7.

Every other class of champion has had at least one season where no one picked them because they were generally bad, and ADC is the only class of champion that can be taken to any lane.

The problem is that ADCs don't actually scale with levels as much as other classes of champions- they scale more with items, which automatically makes them the best candidates for duo lanes.

I propose either reducing the amount of attack speed and AD on items by 40% to make them dependent on levels, or reduce the base health of every marksman by 50% so that they can't be taken anywhere besides a duo lane and autolose 1v1s unless they build at least two tank items (which should give them no damage benefit)

BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votes

Tristana: She's not weak she's a counter meta pick most people will refer to, with Caitlyn being S tier and most odds picked up when she's up Tristana is just a counter meta pick because of her range, if anything her kit revolves around her E and W and getting resets thus making her Q fine as it's not what makes or breaks her kit.

Cho'Gath: No comment really since I don't play against this champion often, though I would say his Q is very easy to dodge and he's easy kitted so yeah.

Syndra: Yeah she'll never feel satisfying to play against until they hit her numbers on her R and/or shift her power so that she has to land a full combo to blow someone up.

Kayle: No idea barely see Kayle, but didn't Poppy have a similar ult and they removed it?

Diana: Easy lock down with CC, do your best to avoid her Q because that's pretty much going to give her a reset and burst you, play around that she'll be pretty useless if she can't get a reset before going in.

Nami: She's actually a very solid support, she plays around her bubble and her E is a nice slow, her healing isn't mediocre she actually has a high healing value in trade off for the long cooldown.

Feel free to hit me up with your thoughts.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Tristana is perfectly fine right now building Shiv -> Infinity Edge right now. She's a mid tier adc.

Cho'Gath, much like Garen, needs a full rework. His kit, like Garen's, has no synergy with itself and it very clunky. It also doesn't fill many (if any) checkboxes of top, mid, or jungle roles. Also does he even have a passive? I don't even know what it is, yet I know his entire kit.

The problem with Syndra is her ult and her lane pressure. Basically, she does everything a mage wants too well. Push waves as fast as Kayle during the first 3-10 minutes. She has really good hitboxes and her ult deals too much damage.

Kayle cannot use her ultimate under CC. So yes, you can CC and burst her down. Kayle, like AD carries, also has low magic resistance, and is beaten my a lot of magic damage poke champions in lane (LIKE MAGES). Also her ultimate lasts 2/2.5/3 seconds. Also she only kills squishes in that short amount of time. Due to having hybrid damage and her passive not being the greatest, her ability to kill tanks begins to fall off the later the game goes.

Diana has a rework on the PBE right now.

Nami just needs a way to scale into the game better. She's shifted out of the meta a bit too much, and her lack of usefulness later into the game is keeping her down a bit.

Mcsquzzy1 votes

I feel the reason triat is being called weak is because there was a period of time after her minor work where her q had it's cd reduced when hitting a target with e on them. The jump has been the same minus the reset on e explosion, which helped a lot imo since her jump is when she is most vulnerable since like bard tunnel u can still be targeted during the leap. And her ult had it's scaling and cd nerfed.

Chogath. I do not like when tanks can burst so I feel the scaling should be reduced on hp cho. Since he can stack infinitely, I am however liking the pbe change to his void spikes

Kayle, all her problems come from how strong on hit is. She becomes a ranged tryndamere

Diana, I feel divers need some method to survive I just don't like how much damage it does

Nami is in a good place imo. Not an amazing heal but the poke is good harass early levels and the wave acts as a good disengage or for catching the enemy team in dragon or baron

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Flash has a cooldown. Keep playing aggressive if Cho blows his flash for a pick.

256Bit1 votes

I got Cho to mastery 5 so here's my two cents

His passive gives him health and mana back for cs. This sometimes is the only reason you can stay in lane because against poke champs like Azir or lane bullies like Syndra you cant play normally. These matchups and others like them require Cho to sit back and farm off of his Qs. If he builds Full tank his only decent source of damage becomes his ult. It is an execute just like Garden's so of you get low stay away. With tier one boots Rupture becomes way easier to dodge and is even easier to dodge with tier 2s, reaction timing, or prediction. It is just like how Vel'Koz has his knock-up and GP has his aoe damage. Predict and dodge and laning vs Cho is easier. Also early q has big cd so work around it. if he uses it on wave get some free harass and if he uses it on you then go for some cs. 90% on the ult? Nope, try 30 ish. Gaining feast stacks late game becomes harder. Since you need champ or epic monster kills to gain health. If you don't know what you're doing in the right matchups yeah you will lose to hm. but he has some bad matchups now. Cho mid does not appear as often and Cho Top has a 45% win rate in NA, he does not need a rework. He is a Tank that packs good cc like Nautilus Malphite but also has some damage IF he builds AP. Late game stay away from him and not dying is10X easier since his e and ult are melee range. His hindrance is his movespeed. If you catch him out and gank, good he cant really run. If he chases you, even with rylais you can get away depending where you are and if you play your cards right. And if his team decides to run from the fight or you trap them at the objective he is going to have a harder time running away. An adc with good positioning (or one that knows how to orb-walk) can make a snack out of Cho in a teamfight or if he is caught out. Above all is play-rate is lower than before so he should not be that big of a problem.

Automated Riven1 votes

Cho gath q becomes damn near impossible to land once people start looking at chogath for the cast animation.

Falcon Of Death1 votes

nami is a support that takes skills and is highly effective

dont touch her

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

Tristana Overall a very snowball ADC, only second to Draven probably but the problem with her isn't her abilities(which are all overall good, albeit on the stale side) it's the fact that she tries to fill so many different roles like, bursty ADC, tower killer, and hyper carry. Only happens to generally excel in the third one and fall short on the other two. In fact, abusing her level 2-3 power spike, when combined with your support you can easily burn some sums on the enemy ADC because her damage is so high.

Diana Put it simply, she stat-checks. She's a balanced champion because in a logical case she goes in and dies instantly but bringing someone with her she goes in unable to bring multiple procs of her passive because of getting crowd controlled Has no way out for a Diver/Assassin type champion If she builds a bit of tank she can't do enough damage vice versa

Also, she isn't as easy as she looks to play. W isn't nearly enough to block too much damage late unless you're up close, Having burst, tankiness and sustained damage is actually fine on her. She's an assassin/diver so she needs the QRR(which fyi is very easy to dodge especially if they QR at the same time), since she has no escape also being a diver/scrapper she needs her innate tankiness and W to survive in fights.

Doozku1 votes

Cho'Gath:

His Q is one of the easiest spells to dodge in the game. Some pro's straight up say that it's impossible to land this spell in high elo. Even then, his damage is pitiful outside of his R unless he builds AP. If you are a squishy ADC, stick with your team, and don't let him get close to you so that he can't eat you.

Automated Riven1 votes

This is what I have been saying. But I get downvoted cause apparently having a .75 second cast time and another .75 seconds for the spell to actually go off is completely fair.

SettDownShutUp1 votes

Mordekaiser. Drops mic.

... But seriously, the champ has 171 bugs that need fixing (check reddit) and this has been the situation for half a year without word of any upcoming changes. Not to mention the staggering nerf to his core items leaving him ... rather pathetic.

DJMason881 votes

About Syndra. You are over-exaggerating her ultimate. 4 or 5 Spheres will not one shot anybody, in fact it is extremely rare if anyone is one-shot at all. (One shot in the sense that you are killed from 100% or 90% health). I agree that an item should never be the counter to anything. Is Syndra op? Maybe, but her win-rate doesn't reflect it.

koshkyra1 votes

{quoted}

About Syndra. You are over-exaggerating her ultimate. 4 or 5 Spheres will not one shot anybody, in fact it is extremely rare if anyone is one-shot at all. (One shot in the sense that you are killed from 100% or 90% health). I agree that an item should never be the counter to anything. Is Syndra op? Maybe, but her win-rate doesn't reflect it.

Im not talking about the laning phase when Syndra has a rank 1 ultimate. In the lategame when she has ranks 2-3 it will sure as hell oneshot a squishy with 4-5 balls. She can still do this in the laning phase if she uses ignite though.

DJMason881 votes

A full rotation does not mean a one shot, her ult cannot kill someone from 100% to maybe 75% health. At rank 1 its full damage would be 519 with 68 AP (not accounting for magic resist). Ignite would be 170 at level 6 or 250 at 10. At lvl 6 - 689 dmg (not accounting for the MR for her ult, dmg would be even lower. At lvl 10- 769 dmg (again, not accounting for the MR of the person). At full build and lvl 18 (item 3165 item 3020 item 3135 item 3157 item 3285 item 3089 item 2139) I am getting 750 AP. With 5 balls it will deal 1,650 damage, not accounting for magic resist. (This is all from the tooltip).

Moon Mom1 votes

Diana is 100% weak at the moment due to the itemization nerfs and how the meta is focused. Unless you can pull off RQ combos your damage is super telegraphed and binary. Next patch she isn't getting a buff, she's getting nerfed early game and buffed late game. That passive buff is a joke in the early game. She never levels 8 Pre 8 and it doesn't really give any incentive to do so early on if you're playing assassin Diana.

Diana is getting a midgame / lategame power shift on her passive, letting her focus on splitpushing and dueling. She'll be a weaker AP jax. That's all there is to it.

Dianas also do not take ignite in lane. For what it's worth, you'll get poked out by level 4 most likely if you're playing against a competent mid laner.

You have to respect her moonlight debuff on minions and realize she's only going to go in on you. She'll stat check.. so just stay back. Save your pushback (syndra, taliah, etc) until she's ontop of you if she does somehow hit a Q.

It's path is fairly easy to dodge. You can either walk counter clockwise, or direclty into her to dodge it. She's also a sitting duck for any jungler if she doesn't take stormraiders. Flash is her only option out.

She's so easy to deal with mid lane I could write an entire blog about it, but no one understands that they need to punish her during the appropriate windows. Wait for her shield to go out, trade with her after it's down. Trade with her during her 20 second CD ultimate if she misses Q. Build a banshees to negate her combo. This will only not work if she can use RQ combos to reset (extremely rare).

I want to clarify again that this Diana "rework" kills her early game (pre 8), and only becomes good as you max E (which is done last anyway). At most, she'll get a few more w's in lane with the mana buffs.

Cryo001 votes

I don't really play a lot of ADCs besides Ashe, so I can't really comment on Tristana.

Cho'Gath is fine IMO. Yeah sure that ultimate does massive damage, but you have to get into melee range of the squishy with that massive ass hitbox of yours, so there is no way you are going to be able to just walk in and land that. Flashing for a kill is something that is only possible once every 5 minutes, and he loses flash for that, which is a fair trade. If he needs a rework he needs one to "modernize" his kit if anything.

I play a lot of Syndra, so I am probably biased on this topic. Her ultimate sure does a fuck-ton of damage but it has always been that way. The problem is when they changed her Q passive with the mage update, making the balls last longer. I really did not like this change, so i hope they revert it like they did with her W. If they don't plan on doing that I am fine with making her ultimate an execute like Veigar's, but her ultimate imo needs to have high damage.

IDK where I stand on Kayle...I hate her because I hate late-game oriented champions. She isn't necessarily broken by any means, but I want them to rework her just to change her play style. Late game its literally smash your face on the keyboard and right click the team to death. The invulnerability is fine imo.

I don't play a lot of Diana, so I can't talk about her.

Nami is pretty good right now imo. Her bubble takes practice to land and the ability to predict the enemy's movement, which again will come with time. The heals are ridiculous early game if it bounces off of enemies. The bonus damage from her E early game matters quite a bit too.

PePsiLemoNN1 votes

If Twitch wasn't so op I'd probably ban Tristana everygame.

koshkyra1 votes

{quoted}

If Twitch wasn't so op I'd probably ban Tristana everygame.

110% fully agreed.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

I heard (I'm not sure myself) it's because her base AS was gutted to make room for that 110% which overall makes her just slightly better with her Q on, and horrible when it's on cd.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

About Cho, it's because when people get boots you become a health fountain for enemy ADC

Emerald Fang1 votes

Kayle invulnerability is 2/2.5/3 seconds. Note these are my OPINIONS AND IDEAS so before you commenters flame "you're an idiot OMG" they're suggestions only.

Nami is definitely not underpowered in my opinion. Reliant on Q maybe but her W is a powerful heal/poke tool with quite a long range, her E is a Frozen Mallet that can be put onto allies. Ult is a bit eh, it's a good ability but I think it's too narrow and easy to miss if you're not point-blank. Maybe width increases with level/distance traveled?

Chogath Fix this champ: remove Q slow, make E silence for 1.5 at all ranks, ult does [20% of his max HP + 30% missing enemy HP] damage. Just my thoughts.

Tristana Rocket jump needs a 30 second cooldown at rank 1; too long-range. W attack speed steroid? Basically the same as MF but duration could be shorter.

Syndra Less AP ratio on her orbs and/or ult could be that she picks up an orb, throws it in a line, hitting the first champion and all minions in the way for 100/150/200 (+40% AP) damage. 20 second cooldown at all ranks and can store 2 charges.

OtterlyLost1 votes

Trist has been weak for a while and is slowly becoming strong due to changes to crit items and their costs, which is generally the case with Tristana. She's never personally amazingly strong but if her items are, then she will be as well. I wouldn't say she was top tier yet; Draven shits on her in lane, as does MF, both of which are pretty strong and popular right now. Twitch out scales her and if he gets a good flank off on her with his ult, there's not much she can do; though there's not much ANYONE can do, which is an issue with Twitch.

I wouldn't say Tristana herself has been top tier since Season 5 when they first reworked her. :/ They gave her a really nasty nerf at the end of Season 5 that she never quite recovered from and I still feel they need to revert; originally her Q and E would reset each other's CD's. When she used Q on an enemy unit that had E on them, her AA's would lower the CD of both the E and the Q, making her feel SO much more smooth to play. Now she's got long CD's that make it hard for her to keep fighting once they've gone off and an even harder time making it through the midgame because she has zero ability damage. The Shiv build covers the midgame up which is also why she's coming back.

Cho'gath has always needed a rework. I don't like the infinite health scaling he now has with an ability that does scale with health and can viable one shot you at some point. Ironically enough, when they changed his ult to be what it is, I feel like they also got rid of AP Cho in the process which leads me to believe they didn't like him playing AP? But at the same time, they let AP Cho stay around so long that I'm not sure. :/ I feel he definitely is one of the harder to kite champions in the game as most Cho's do take MS in their runes for the early game and in the late game, if you just happen to get remotely too close, he can just CC you in place.

Diana's problem, I feel is, that she's very mana hungry and she has a very weak early game, whether in lane or in jungle. I also feel like, for someone who is meant to be an AP bruiser, she doesn't have half the options that other bruisers have, specifically because she is AP. She can't do like most bruisers who build a few damage items and then straight tank because most bruisers are AD; their AA's also get to do a lot of damage. :/ Unless they made her passive so that her AA's scaled insanely well with AP, I don't foresee her ever doing exceptionally well. Or if they just completely rework her into another AP Assassin.

Rockm Sockm1 votes
  1. Tristana- she is meta for safety and towers. Very safe but she was gutted. Insanely low base Stats amd attack speed. Horrible fighting outside of her 7 second window. Partially offset now that adcs build two attack speed items.
  2. Cho- I think he could of used buffs minus not dropping stacks. He is an infinite scaler that can one shot with a point and click. He still keeps getting buffs. Get ready for him to take over top. Now that you can't reset him, I think this will hurt. They keep buffing him yo get him into the high elo meta. He will become a low elo pub stomper.
  3. Kayle- she is kept in the gutter because her kit is a Stat check auto win once it reaches a certain point.
  4. Diana- massive mana problems and piss poor lane phase. She scales that hard because she is the most ride or die champion in league. The new changes hurt her early game even more. She can only go in and has no fancy escapes.

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