Yi won't be a crit champion as long as he has true damage on his E

Big Lincoln··1 votes·733 views

True damage doesn't crit but it makes up a large bulk of his DPS. As long as it exists, it is much more preferable to get as many procs of it off as possible, hence his natural synergy with on-hit attack speed builds.

I hear that his E used to give him large amounts of AD when activated. I think it should return to this and I think it'd be ultimately healthier. Yi will pop squishies much faster, but he won't be able to shred tanks as easily as he currently does (which I think is something a lot of people complain about.) Counter-building him would also be easier because he'd do almost entirely physical damage, but he would benefit much more from critical strike and lifesteal. Fervor of Battle and Warlord's would also be far superior than they are in current form. Overall I think he would be easier to balance and easier to make fit into his role as a hypercarry.

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12 Comments

JedenVojak1 votes

Yi is a melee adc, he's supposed to be able to shred tanks, and everyone really.

Big Lincoln1 votes

since season 4 Yi has been building bruiser on-hit.

These changes would make him more of a melee ADC than anything.

JedenVojak1 votes

I think it's more an issue of melee adc's lacking a defensive item option tailored to their needs, since they have to put themselves in danger to do their damage.

In dota 2, raising your Str or Dex gives you extra defenses, but in league building offenses doesn't give you any defensive scaling at all.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

I think it's more an issue of melee adc's lacking a defensive item option tailored to their needs, since they have to put themselves in danger to do their damage.

In dota 2, raising your Str or Dex gives you extra defenses, but in league building offenses doesn't give you any defensive scaling at all.

My question is, what's wrong with the Bruiser Builds? Cause as far as I can tell, mix and matching offensive and defensive itemization does a pretty good job of giving you what you need. (This was is actually move versitile, as champions arn't locked into building on kind of item)

Secondly, most skirmishers already get one fairly good dueling mechanic, which makes them harder to kill, and that is their life steal. The only real draw back is, it's only useful while your attacking, leaving you vulnerable to cc.

Thirdly, if your not ranged, never go full class cannon. (this is more of a rule of thumb) I find this more true with skirmisher when they do have that huge scaling. (Cause it mean they need fewer items to get the same effect) If I was for example, playing Yasuo, I would only need 2 items to max out his critical strike chance. If I combined IE with PD, I would already have a fairly good damage build with one good dueling mechanic. And while I could build even more AD or AS, I'd be sitting pretty good as is, maybe I would get a scimitar if I wanted LS and the quick silver ability. Otherwise, I will build defenses.

FYI, Defensive items do a pretty good job at creating dueling power. Where Life steal requires you to keep attacking to maintain it's effect, Armor and MR are always good at reducing damage. Also they even synergize with life steal. Because the Health regained through life steal, affects the effective Health you have when calculating resistances. (e.x. I regain 100 HP life steal, I have 100 Armor which is 100% effective HP against physical damage. Their for, I just recovered 200 effective HP against physical damage.)

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

My question is, what's wrong with the Bruiser Builds? Cause as far as I can tell, mix and matching offensive and defensive itemization does a pretty good job of giving you what you need. (This was is actually move versitile, as champions arn't locked into building on kind of item)

I have no inherent problem with bruiser builds, but melee should not be forced into bruiser builds to be relevant - glass cannon melee should be just as viable as their ranged counter parts.

Secondly, most skirmishers already get one fairly good dueling mechanic, which makes them harder to kill, and that is their life steal. The only real draw back is, it's only useful while your attacking, leaving you vulnerable to cc.

Skirmisher? What's a skirmisher?

Anyway, anyone can build lifesteal, this isn't really inherent to champs, outside of a few specific exceptions.

Thirdly, if your not ranged, never go full class cannon. (this is more of a rule of thumb)

If true, this is a flaw in the design of the game, not with melee. Full glass cannon melee dps should be a thing and be viable.

I find this more true with skirmisher when they do have that huge scaling. (Cause it mean they need fewer items to get the same effect) If I was for example, playing Yasuo, I would only need 2 items to max out his critical strike chance. If I combined IE with PD, I would already have a fairly good damage build with one good dueling mechanic. And while I could build even more AD or AS, I'd be sitting pretty good as is, maybe I would get a scimitar if I wanted LS and the quick silver ability. Otherwise, I will build defenses.

No, huge scaling means you should do everything in your power to capitalize on it.

After you build ID and Statik on Yasuo, you should follow it up with BoTRK, or Bloodthirster, or more attack speed. "Pretty good" is nowhere near good enough - you must have the damage to be able to kill everyone on the enemy team, regardless of who you are as quickly as possible; the best defense is a good offense.

FYI, Defensive items do a pretty good job at creating dueling power. Where Life steal requires you to keep attacking to maintain it's effect, Armor and MR are always good at reducing damage. Also they even synergize with life steal. Because the Health regained through life steal, affects the effective Health you have when calculating resistances. (e.x. I regain 100 HP life steal, I have 100 Armor which is 100% effective HP against physical damage. Their for, I just recovered 200 effective HP against physical damage.)

Defensive items can create dueling power, but they slow down your dps which is your single most important tool for functioning in the game; it affects the speed at which you take objectives, the speed at which the people who are hurting you die, the speed of your farming. Everything really.

That's why I say melee adcs need a defensive item tailored to their specific needs - the need a defensive offense tool that will let them live. Actually item 3046 is this to some degree, the problem is it only works on one target.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Big Lincoln1 votes

debatable.

Yi has been extremely hard to balance with the existence of on-hit items, given that said items have been a huge balance issue on their own. Plus, anti-tank items and options are VASTLY superior to what we've had in the past. item 3036 alone would give him tremendous ability to cut down tanks, not to mention item 3071. defensive itemization is also more supportive for crit Yi to return with the likes of item 3814 and the current iteration of item 3156

I would argue that his current on-hit build is very unhealthy and unfitting of the champion who used to emphasize being a melee carry. These days he builds Bloodrazor and one damage item into full tank. Is that really what we want for Yi?

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

crit chance scales with attack speed.

Big Lincoln1 votes

true damage doesn't crit.

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

flat true damage scales with attack speed crit chance scales with attack speed most crit items are attack speed items his true damage scales with AD as well but not as well as it scales with attack speed which scales with crit chance which scales with true damage.

It all scales together

Big Lincoln1 votes

right, but why would you bother with crit when you could maximize your true damage and then also build durability?

item 1416 item 3153 or item 3124 work better for him than item 3046 item 3031 do, especially because the former build follows up with item 3742 item 3156 and becomes harder to kill with more or less the same practical DPS as the latter, who needs to build more expensive damage items to make his crit meaningful. i'm only saying this because riot still fancies Yi as a champion who builds crit; I would prefer he be a champion that builds crit myself; changing his E to an AD steroid would make him far better with crit than true damage (that does not crit and scales with attack speed, thus benefiting far more from on hit items) does. I think this would be much easier to balance than true damage DPS, too.

his true damage doesn't scale with crit chance, only attack speed and AD.

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

ok then lets say his autos do so much damage.. lets say 90 base damage + 15 from runes and then we get an even 100 damage because fuck math I said so.

How fast does he attack? Doesn't matter. I mean sure he will attack so many times and then he'll have enough to kill the target he wants. Great, that's nice but lets just look at the damage

item 1416 it doesn't matter what his attack speed is, if he gets this he will attack 50% faster but any AS after this stacks additively percentagewise blahblahblah

this gives him onhit damage to stack on top of his true damage. With this alone he'll be able to shred through your defense if he attacks fast enough and thus his defense penetration now scales with attack speed. Congrats but he currently has no extra damage

item 3153 25 attack damage, 40% attack speed, more onhit, healing. This one gives an actve

item 3046 0 attack damage, 45% attack speed, critical strikes, damage reduction. This gives movespeed and less unit collision

With 30% crit yi will crit once every 3 autoattacks. This is not actually random he WILL crit once every three autos.. actualy its a bit less than that so once every 4 autos. Its actually once every 3.3333333 autos but whatever. Anyways once every 4 autos he will critically strike adding 100 damage to his attack but this will basically had 30% or his crit chance to his damage. Or in otherwords it can be read this way

On an attack speed champ, crit chance is effectively a damage multiplier that can max out at 100% based on how many attacks it takes to realistically get the crit

So lets look at these phantom dancer another way

item 3046 45% faster attacking, 25% increased damage from autoattacks and critting abilities, reduced incoming damage so you can get more damage in, etcetc

Now, since its 25% more damage we can say that this is the equivalent of an average of 25 attack damage. Which almost makes this kindof impressive but then you also have to consider all the other stuff.

on master yi attack speed scales a bit more than normal blahblahblah but here's the thing though. Now that you have attack speed and crit if you get item 1036 for some reason you get 10 * 1.4 = 14 effective damage from item 3153 alone but you get 101.451.25 = 18.125 effective damage from item 3046 .

as you go on the difference will get bigger. Ultimately even if you never get anymore crit item 3046 will always give better scaling with master yi himself and his build but item 3153 also considers how tanky the opponent actually is and stuff like that and gives a sustain source.

Both have their uses, its all probably just situational but once you have any % hp item you have something to mitigate some defense with on top of the true damage.

Crit chance doesn't give more true damage but it doesn't have to. It scales multiplicatively with both AS ad AD. If you get 100% crit chance on yi you're probably doing it wrong . In fact to guarantee a crit every 3 autos you only need 34% crit chance.

Its all situational.

Crit kills squishies true damage penetrates armor without a need for penetration items % hp damage penetrates hp items, it scales with AD and attack speed, you can also use onhit amplification like item 3124 to make it work harder

This is the use the crit has. Its an amplifier, its like the item 3089 of autoattacks.

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