Why does GP have almost no mana costs for his laning phase??

DeusVult··24 votes·3,384 views

His barrels are free, his Q costs 40 mana regardless of rank. His only skill that has any decent sort of mana cost attached is his oranges, but a good gangplank will rarely have to use that unless he gets ganked or cc'd, which most champs can't do all that often when he's zoning you off the wave with barrels.

On top of this, GP has a decent mana pool and regen, which can be exacerbated by taking item 2033 or item 1056 as a starting item, in which case he can just hit you with Q every time it comes off of CD. And hardly any champ in the game has the sustain to deal with this.

But what feels the worst about this is that GP isnt really meant to be a lane bully, as his kit hyperscales with crit, AD and armor pen, allowing him to be one of the best scaling late game champs. If a GP hits a barrel onto 2+ members of your team late game, he as just successfully won an objective for his team, as nearly all champs have to back, even tanks, as his barrels have free armor pen attached.

Since his rework, GP has become one of the most undesirable champs to play against. A menace in lane early game. Has huge powerspikes in the mid game when completing items like item 3078, item 3031 and item 3142. Map presence even when splitting with his ult and TP. And Late game he doesnt fall off because of free armor pen and AoE multiplicative scaling.

Even if you fall behind as GP, you have free extra gold from your mini-game to pull you back into the game. And he's not as punished for splitting, because even if his TP is down, he still has ult, and is incredibly safe clearing waves if behind through his barrels.

Rito, could someone explain to me where/what GPs weaknesses are supposed to be?? Because honestly after playing against him a ton in soloQ (now dynamicQ) my go to is to just ban him if i have to option. Because if someone can play GP well, then there isnt much that their opponent can do to fight back against them.

26 Comments

MunchCrunchLunch15 votes

if u force him to W he will run out pretty quickly. also spamming Q will make you go oom. u have to use barrels to farm then u wont run out if u use Q. at least. try to get as many minions with barrels and Q the enemy. no need to exaggerate. his mana cost. aren't as ridiculous as some old champs. like jax. and pantheon and talon. but these champiions are so painful with their abysmall mana costs. its awful.

Ralanr4 votes

Plus his barrels aren't going to instantly clear a wave at level 1-3. At least in my experience, minions need to have taken a few hits before a barrel can kill them (hence why he rushes spellblade and crit since it makes his clear easier).

IMO GP's best moments are late game when his team is pushed since he'll usually have enough power to clear big waves and get a lot of gold from it. So if he's behind by then he won't be for long.

Volcanuz2 votes

Yeah i agree.

I always find people make posts about champions like this when they have never played the champion them self or very little play of them.

statelesskiller11 votes

keep in mind that gangplank starts the game with under 300 mana. that 40 mana q is actually alot. especially if the gp isnt last hitting with his q because dorans ring only refunds mana on kill

just about every champion in the game can spam abilities out like they are nothing if they build corrupting potion

GP's w starts with a 80 mana cost. double his q cost. and his ult is a pretty normal 100

to put things in perspective. if his q had no cooldown. at level 6 he could q you 11 times before he ran out of mana.

at level 1 he could q you about 7 times.

good gps though DONT q you constantly. they wait for bandit to come off cooldown before they shoot you because thats what they want is the money. NOW. with gp if you force him to W you can start burning through his mana. but if you dont try and fight him this wont happen. alternatively you can just sit back and relax until he has shot you enough that he HAS run out of mana and then you can ignore him until he backs

NOW. champions that can beat GP in lane Renekton Riven Fiora Tryndamere these champs beat gp because they have the ability to resist his poke. and have the capacity to INSTANTLY jump on his dick and fuck him. riven is especially obnoxiouse because she can EW auto attack a barrel you have next to you. and then proceed to drop her load on you. the animation for oranges takes to long to prevent this.

Theorchero1 votes

{quoted}

keep in mind that gangplank starts the game with under 300 mana. that 40 mana q is actually alot. especially if the gp isnt last hitting with his q because dorans ring only refunds mana on kill

just about every champion in the game can spam abilities out like they are nothing if they build corrupting potion

GP's w starts with a 80 mana cost. double his q cost. and his ult is a pretty normal 100

to put things in perspective. if his q had no cooldown. at level 6 he could q you 11 times before he ran out of mana.

at level 1 he could q you about 7 times.

good gps though DONT q you constantly. they wait for bandit to come off cooldown before they shoot you because thats what they want is the money. NOW. with gp if you force him to W you can start burning through his mana. but if you dont try and fight him this wont happen. alternatively you can just sit back and relax until he has shot you enough that he HAS run out of mana and then you can ignore him until he backs

..What?

Good GP's will absolutely Q you whenever it is off cooldown. The bandit mastery is just a bonus. What really matters with the Q harass is that you get space to farm.

Any absolutely not trash GP goes sapphire crystal and refillable potion. Bonus 150 mana, which allows for 3-4 more Q's before running oom, in addition to meditation mastery. Good GP players don't run oom because they make cognizant choices to accommodate their mana expenditure.

It's fine that GP doesn't run oom too easily in lane because if he wants to have that level of regeneration or sustain, he has to invest mastery points into Meditation, and/or runes into mana regen, and start with a mana item instead of an AD item. If GP's Q had little to no cost (40 mana is significant based off his base mana pool and low regen) I'd just start with a long sword and refillable instead and my Q would hit significantly harder, even more so if I went armor pen runes instead of ad because I could start with a long sword.

statelesskiller3 votes

{quoted}

..What?

Good GP's will absolutely Q you whenever it is off cooldown. The bandit mastery is just a bonus. What really matters with the Q harass is that you get space to farm.

no. q damage is absolute garbage starting off. the ONLY reason to q is for the bandit gold. the harass is nice but its alllll about the bank. at least until you get sheen. then your q actually does damage

Any absolutely not trash GP goes sapphire crystal and refillable potion. Bonus 150 mana, which allows for 3-4 more Q's before running oom, in addition to meditation mastery. Good GP players don't run oom because they make cognizant choices to accommodate their mana expenditure.

good gp players run dorans ring into alot of matchups. BEEEECCCCAUUUUSSEEEE. it gives health. AP. mana regen. and mana refund. the health is good for obvious reason. the ap gives you more damage to your thunderlords decree it gives you more sustain with your oranges AND it adds abit of ult damage. the mana regen and mana refund should also be obviouse

dorans ring is superior to mana crystal in terms of long term sustain because once you chew through your mana pool with mana crystal THATS IT. its gone and now you spend forever getting it back. dorans ring? last hit with q your q now costs 36 mana instead. feelsgoodman. oh hey now im under my turret? i can CS with my AA and start power farming my mana back

dorans ring is longer term sustain which is what ANY good gp should strive for. the long term. thats why i also get cull on my first back. 1550 gold. sheen and cul

Theorchero1 votes

{quoted}

no. q damage is absolute garbage starting off. the ONLY reason to q is for the bandit gold. the harass is nice but its alllll about the bank. at least until you get sheen. then your q actually does damage

good gp players run dorans ring into alot of matchups. BEEEECCCCAUUUUSSEEEE. it gives health. AP. mana regen. and mana refund. the health is good for obvious reason. the ap gives you more damage to your thunderlords decree it gives you more sustain with your oranges AND it adds abit of ult damage. the mana regen and mana refund should also be obviouse

dorans ring is superior to mana crystal in terms of long term sustain because once you chew through your mana pool with mana crystal THATS IT. its gone and now you spend forever getting it back. dorans ring? last hit with q your q now costs 36 mana instead. feelsgoodman. oh hey now im under my turret? i can CS with my AA and start power farming my mana back

dorans ring is longer term sustain which is what ANY good gp should strive for. the long term. thats why i also get cull on my first back. 1550 gold. sheen and cul

Doran's ring is suboptimal.

Sapphire lets you get your sheen at 700 gold. Backing at 1150 gets you cull and sheen, 1125 cull/sheen/ward.

Q positively does do good damage level 1 because you can spam it on their face and they aren't able to retaliate. Creating that health discrepancy is core to allowing you space to farm. Only time I use Q on the minions is if there's a caster and it'd be too risky to last hit it with a melee aa. The bandit mastery is just a nice bonus. Generally speaking though if that means waiting .25 sec to get bandit in the early game, sure. That's optimal. But the reason you Q their face isn't even for the gold. It's so you can discourage them from fucking with you while you cs.

400 gold spent into doran's ring makes doran's a dead item. Doesn't build into anything else.

Sapphire crystal gives you similar levels of sustain while getting you your power spikes faster.

Learn to not lane like a monkey and take bad trades and you will sustain just fine with sapphire crystal.

Now there are certain matchups I may consider Doran's ring instead, mainly melee champs with no or limited gap closer, but too tanky for me to kill. Shit like Malphite, maybe Darius/Pantheon, but I still prefer sapphire because I'm confident in my ability to lane against even tough lane bullies long enough to get a super early sheen power spike and woup their ass with it.

statelesskiller3 votes

when i play i just think of "okay. what will make sure i come out of this lane alive and allow me to scale past them" i dont plan to kill them. i plan to win against them.

Theorchero1 votes

{quoted}

when i play i just think of "okay. what will make sure i come out of this lane alive and allow me to scale past them" i dont plan to kill them. i plan to win against them.

Alright. At that point it's just preference.

Doran's ring is a valid first item for GP, I recommend it for newer GPs as it's more forgiving of mistakes. I just love the sheen cull back. It's really strong. If you're top you can take tp and immediately back at 700 gold and destroy them. Chances are they won't have anything close to a powerspike equivalent to yours at 700-800 gold range if they back as soon as you tp forward, and push the wave into turret. Best case for them is probably two long swords or maybe phage pieces.

BloodyTompon2 votes

The ring is a little better in the early few levels than sapphire. If you can get through the laning phase easily enough without Doran's though, sapphire should be pretty solid.

DunkinNoobs8 votes

You clearly don't remember back when GP got half of his Q mana cost back if he killed a unit with it.

Theorchero7 votes

Gp absolutely dies run oom from harass and q spam to the point that taking meditation mastery is basically required.

Jolly Rogered3 votes

Do you play GP? Because if you did you would know he can OOM very quickly in lane. If you are not attacking him and causing him to W, then you are letting him get away with a free early laning phase.

MLDzXnRRR3 votes

GP goes oom and good GP players take the mana regen mastery... GP uses Q on you and runs back or sits in his barrels. Any champion can kill him, because GP is squishy. The key is to 1v1 him to the death, not being kited.

Veltox3 votes

Get out and start playing him. His q is the only thing he can spam and he needs it to farm silver serpents. Oranges cost a truckton considering his base mana costs. Barrels got a huge delay early and you want them cost mana too? Literally all his ult does at rank 1 is a global slow at 180 seconds.

Melledoneus2 votes

Fiora

Droogzy2 votes

No offense but it's pretty clear you've never played as GP if this is your assessment of him.

His Q damage is piss poor early on. No really it is: 20 / 45 / 70 / 95 / 120 respectively with +100% AD which doesn't kick in until mid game due to most people rushing Tri-Force. Even with spellblade, it's laughable at best and makes it easy to trade against him.

Either he uses it to farm the wave for silver serpents or to proc bandit mastery, not as a source of damage early game.

His barrels start at an 18 second cool down and go to 10 seconds. Most GP I've seen will try to chain their barrels in sets of threes. So even at late game with 45% CDR, you have around 15-20 second window frame of when he can not use the barrel count he wants to reach the backline unless said backline is a potato.

Menace in the early game? Really? That's why he's been pick or ban in a worlds meta where early game pressure is the most desired attribute of champions especially in top, jungle, and support.

....Oh wait.

His 1v1 fighting early game is god awful for anyone who understands how to track barrel CD times and the ticks until it can be exploded. If you let him just fish with barrel-Q, eventually he's going to land a few.

His oranges' mana costs are pretty crippling early on, if you're constantly pressuring him, he will go OOM just from a few oranges.

His barrels don't full clear wave until he has several items to work with. It's the main reason he gets crit and sheen.

His ultimate is extremely strong...but its on a 3 minute CD at rank 6, meaning if he uses it, it better be in the right situation.

I've played as GP in a normal game twice in my life, both times were to learn what I couldn't understand about why he was doing so well against me.

Its funny how quick it took for me to understand how to play against him after merely just two games, never had an issue with him again as a jungle/support. Try it sometimes before you go to the board and complain.

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

It's GP... He'll eat an orange and be k.

Wiz the Great1 votes

Because munchcrunclunch needs a champion broken enough to get out of gold 5

Utility Veigar1 votes

Idk why mana costs on not only GP but a majority of the cast are not high. Isn't that the reason manamune exist? Right now it's rarely bought on champs. New Yorick doesn't get manamune and Jayce skips Manamune and goes straight towards ghostblade because of the mana cost reduction on his E. Stop decreasing the mana cost on spells pls. Makes Manamune nonexistent.

Spoofghoul1 votes

idk man he has many nerfs

and currently not many good builds anymore due to this seasons changes

But you are right about his opressive laning

you cant even get him out of lane like at all at best he sits under his own turret clearing from range its kind of toxic because h can push real hard too so you sit in lane with someone who is too safe to be killed who outsustains most opponents too. And to make it worse stays either even or passively gets ahead all while preventing anyone else on your team from snowballing due to ultimate

And its all fine with me tbh

except his non existant manacosts, honestly his parrrley cost is fine imho but his free barrels are not,

i think a good start would be to make his barrels cost 20 mana which isn't much but will make him go oom eventually if he spams them along with parrrley

another thing which would be funny is to give random rewards to opponents who destroy the barrel, like an orange which can be consumed to restore hp or a bottle of rum to restore mana, or some gold

Maximum Morde1 votes

Same reason Soraka doesn't have real mana costs.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

... Watch it heretic.

If you played modern Soraka you would know she has real mana costs.

President Swa1n1 votes

All it takes is 8 Q's at the first few levels. Assuming you don't use oranges. Which you can be forced to buy good opponents.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Riot is avoiding high mana costs on AD champions because they have ruined AD mana itemization. Just look at Talon. Jayce and Ezreal survive because they have range that allows them to farm safely even after rushing Tear, but melee AD champions all need very low mana costs or no mana at all.

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