Kennen really needs his kit updated to 2019

Yenn··1 votes·1,257 views

His kit is a relic from 2010 and hasn't been updated to stay relevant with all of the mobility and damage that has been added to the game, on top of itemization changes. It's awkward and has poor synergy, compared to the kits of other champions with similar team fighting function.

Back when he was released, his kit was great. His E gave him the mobility he needed to get good ults off and damage was much lower, with team fights being much more drawn out, which facilitated his sustained damage. Now, with all the mobility and damage that have creeped into the game, his E no longer provides sufficient mobility, and his damage is spread out over too much time, which is a problem when most other champions can burst you down in 1-2 seconds.

It does a poor job of enabling him to succeed at his team fighting role and forces him to rush specific items (Protobelt + Hourglass) to cover its' weakness, which completely removes any build flexibility.

In order for him to be useful, he needs ~20 minutes of AFK farm to complete the required core items. This is one of the reasons you sometimes see him in pro play, though rarely: most games are played safely and he gets to farm top lane for half an hour with little to no interaction, and then joins his team with his core items and an additional AP item, which he does poor damage without. In solo queue, however, the game is usually largely over before or around the time he builds Hourglass, and he doesn't make it to a third item.

You can look at his win rate vs. game duration and see that there's a pretty clear problem:

https://i.imgur.com/Znz8xrp.jpg[]

https://i.imgur.com/vxafx4B.jpg[]

His win rate is the highest in games that end early, meaning that he didn't actually do anything and got carried by the rest of his team winning their lanes early. It drops once it reaches the point where he's able to team fight. He normally doesn't get Hourglass until around 20 minutes.

Compare this to a champion like Vladimir, who has a weaker early game, but functions similarly: farm until two items, and then become a team fighting powerhouse. The difference is that Vladimir's win rate increases as he completes his core items, while Kennen's doesn't, because his kit doesn't allow him to fulfill his role effectively.

https://i.imgur.com/kPDMr3K.jpg[]

Basically, Kennen wins games not because he fulfills his role as a strong team fighter, but because he's an incredibly safe champion who can't bring his team down. He doesn't help his team, but he also doesn't hurt them. His impact can only be neutral or slightly positive, but it's very minimal when it is positive. He essentially allows his team to easily carry him.

He really needs to have his kit brought up to date with 2019, ideally by taking away some of his safety/early game power, and modifying his kit so that he can actually perform his team fighting function without needing to rush two specific items, and then still not doing any damage until the third item. Most games don't last long enough for him to get to his third item, and his power with that third item isn't proportional to how long it took for him to ramp up.

A quick and easy fix would be to rework his E to either be a more reliable gap closer or an actual defensive ability. Given that he has to dive into the enemy team, the 10 armor and magic resist does nothing to keep him alive. It's his only form of defense and mobility, but it's tied up in movement speed, so it's completely shut down by snares, slows, disengages, and any form of CC, and gives plenty of reaction time to his opponents. Also, the movement speed it gives is misleading, because it pushes him over the cap even without boots.

> But I'm a Gold IV player and ranged cancer always stomps me!

The only exception to this is at low MMR, where he can actually win the lane, because unskilled players or players who don't have knowledge of how to play the match up do the standard 'oh no ranged cancer top is hitting me, I am doomed' panic and try to run away when he harasses them, instead of trading.

Champions like Jax, Darius, Riven, etc. can dumpster 50% or more of his health if he gets in range to auto-attack them post-6, because their engage range is longer than his auto range. The only champions that have trouble against Kennen are ones that can't touch him, like Singed and Garen, but they're not commonly picked.

21 Comments

Jamaree6 votes

Remember everyone, when your champion has a decent play rate, an average to above average win rate across all elos globally, and sees pro play, they need updates, it couldn't just be that maybe you are bad, no no, they are the ones clearly in need of changing to YOUR specifications.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Kennen/

SuicidePlank2 votes

{quoted}

Remember everyone, when your champion has a decent play rate, an average to above average win rate across all elos globally, and sees pro play, they need updates, it couldn't just be that maybe you are bad, no no, they are the ones clearly in need of changing to YOUR specifications.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Kennen/

And if your highest Winrate is in early it means that you don't do anything in lane and get carried. It doesn't mean he bullies everyone and everything out of lane.

Jamaree2 votes

{quoted}

And if your highest Winrate is in early it means that you don't do anything in lane and get carried. It doesn't mean he bullies everyone and everything out of lane.

Yup yup, now you get it.

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

And if your highest Winrate is in early it means that you don't do anything in lane and get carried. It doesn't mean he bullies everyone and everything out of lane.

The bullying is also mentioned in my comment: he bullies you out of lane because you're bad at the game and don't know the match up. It's a you problem, unless you're something like Garen and Singed.

I bullied the Riven out of lane multiple times prior to the video above, because she played the match up completely wrong. If she had instead did the exact thing she did in that video when I tried to bully her even once, I would have had to play less aggressively. Instead, whenever I bullied her, she used her abilities to get away from me, after I had already finished my combo. This is what all bad players do.

SuicidePlank1 votes

{quoted}

The bullying is also mentioned in my comment: he bullies you out of lane because you're bad at the game and don't know the match up. It's a you problem, unless you're something like Garen and Singed.

I bullied the Riven out of lane multiple times prior to the video above, because she played the match up completely wrong and made no attempt to trade.

If she had instead did the exact thing she did in that video when I tried to bully her even once, I would have had to play less aggressively.

You simply have no clue what you are talking about and no, that's not just my opinion, just look at your Downvotes.

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

You simply have no clue what you are talking about and no, that's not just my opinion, just look at your Downvotes.

Turns out it's hard to discuss a champion who low MMR players don't know how to deal with, when the majority of boards players are low MMR. Who would have thought.

Imagine being so ignorant that you're still crying, even after I've posted a video demonstrating how to counter Kennen for you.

SuicidePlank1 votes

{quoted}

Turns out it's hard to discuss a champion who low MMR players don't know how to deal with, when the majority of boards players are low MMR. Who would have thought.

You mean yourself? Because the last time I checked I had the higher Rank and am a Toplane main, so I know my shit.

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

Remember everyone, when your champion has a decent play rate, an average to above average win rate across all elos globally, and sees pro play, they need updates, it couldn't just be that maybe you are bad, no no, they are the ones clearly in need of changing to YOUR specifications.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Kennen/

Good constructive comment, ignoring my explanation of his win rate (i.e. it's incredibly hard for him to have negative impact, but he also doesn't have much positive impact) and contributing absolutely nothing.

If there's nothing wrong with him, please explain why he has such a high win rate before he even finishes his core items.

SuicidePlank2 votes

{quoted}

If there's nothing wrong with him, please explain why he has such a high win rate before he even finishes his core items.

Because.he.bullies.every.single.toplaner.out.of.lane.with.no.fucking.items.and.is.to.safe. Get it? Look at Renektons early WR, does he do nothing in lane either?

Jamaree7 votes

{quoted}

Good constructive comment, ignoring my explanation of his win rate (i.e. it's incredibly hard for him to have negative impact, but he also doesn't have much positive impact) and contributing absolutely nothing.

If there's nothing wrong with him, please explain why he has such a high win rate before he even finishes his core items.

Why does it matter when he does have his highest win rate? He is clearly already in a decent spot, why does he need change?

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

Why does it matter when he does have his highest win rate? He is clearly already in a decent spot, why does he need change?

Having a champion who AFK farms and contributes nothing to his team is not healthy or good design. This isn't even like Tryndamere, who scales hard and puts out heavy pressure while doing it, because Kennen puts out very little pressure. He's just a very safe champion.

Most of the time, Kennen quite literally just sits at top lane while his team wins or loses the game. By the time he joins them, the game is already closed out. His skill floor and ceiling are almost identical. A champion with this little impact (in either direction) shouldn't exist.

Also, Kennen is intended to be a strong team fighting champion, but he does a terrible job of it. That's reason enough that he should be changed.

Jamaree5 votes

{quoted}

Having a champion who AFK farms and contributes nothing to his team is not healthy or good design. This isn't even like Tryndamere, who scales hard and puts out heavy pressure while doing it, because Kennen puts out very little pressure. He's just a very safe champion.

Most of the time, Kennen quite literally just sits at top lane while his team wins or loses the game. By the time he joins them, the game is already closed out. His skill floor and ceiling are almost identical. A champion with this little impact (in either direction) shouldn't exist.

Also, Kennen is intended to be a strong team fighting champion, but he does a terrible job of it. That's reason enough that he should be changed.

What proof of that do you have besides your anecdotal proof? Because where all you can show me is your low elo games, I can show you pro level players, quite literally the best in the world playing him and making him work against once again, the other best players in the game.

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

What proof of that do you have besides your anecdotal proof? Because where all you can show me is your low elo games, I can show you pro level players, quite literally the best in the world playing him and making him work against once again, the other best players in the game.

You mean you can show me pro players AFK farming for 30 minutes, then leaving lane with 300 CS and 3-4 items, team fighting effectively exactly one time, likely with Flash, and then winning or losing the game based on it. Which is a phenomenon exclusive to pro games.

This is exactly something I explained in my post. The one that you clearly didn't read before making inflammatory comments. You're just spewing ignorant garbage at this point.

Looking up Kennen stats in the LCS, he averages: 44% win rate 1.33 kills 1.78 deaths 4.11 assists 310.78 CS

1.33 kills + 4.11 assists = he's involved in 5 kills on average. Which translates to one team fight and supports exactly what I said.

Iota Theta5 votes

{quoted}

You mean you can show me pro players AFK farming for 30 minutes, then leaving lane with 300 CS and 3-4 items, team fighting effectively exactly one time, likely with Flash, and then winning or losing the game based on it. Which is a phenomenon exclusive to pro games.

Bull. Proplay Kennens constantly look for the ability to affect fights with flanking ults. They don’t “AFK farm,” in fact, Kennen is often bullying the enemy toplaner unless hey can waveclear faster. Flash..yeah is often used, but not always. Depends on how well they can get in with their flank.

This is exactly something I explained in my post. The one that you clearly didn't read before making inflammatory comments. You're just spewing ignorant garbage at this point.

Looking up Kennen stats in the LCS, he averages: 44% win rate 1.33 kills 1.78 deaths 4.11 assists 310.78 CS

1.33 kills + 4.11 assists = he's involved in 5 kills on average. Which translates to one team fight and supports exactly what I said.

https://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/43/season-S9/split-Spring/tournament-ALL/patch-ALL/role-ALL/league-ALL/

2.9 average KDA, so almost 3 times as many kills and assists as deaths. It’s almost never just one fight, as Kennen post 6 is TP flanking into multiple fights to ensure a win for his team because the power of his ult, both in burst and utility, is just that strong.

Where’s this 44% winrate? Cause I’m seeing 55.6% winrate globally in pro, with LCS specifically at 60%. So please, do share where you’re getting these stats, cause I am not getting the same results at all.

Iota Theta2 votes

Poking a hole in this point:

This is one of the reasons you sometimes see him in pro play, though rarely: most games are played safely and he gets to farm top lane for half an hour with little to no interaction, and then joins his team with his core items and an additional AP item, which he does poor damage without

And my rebuttal: 20% presence in proplay, within both picks and bans, is not “rarely”. That’s 1 in 5 games that Kennen will have sole appearance. Top that off with the fact that most Kennen’s I see in proplay don’t “farm top lane for half an hour with little to no interaction.” They farm no differently than anyone else, and are usually pretty active in trading, TPing for fights and objectives. He does usually have to look for flanks given how squish he is outside of Zhonya’s.

https://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/43/season-S9/split-Spring/tournament-ALL/patch-ALL/role-ALL/league-ALL/

Yenn1 votes

Bonus video demonstrating why Kennen doesn't win lanes, unless played poorly.

https://i.imgur.com/tygrDAT.gif[]

This Riven is behind, but she engaged on me once when I went to auto, and I lost about 50% of my health. She also did a very poor job of animation cancelling. A Riven main would have dropped me to 25-30% health here.

If she does this once, I have to stop playing aggressively and keep distance, because she can potentially kill me if she does it a second time.

Moody P1 votes

What do you think could or should happen, in particular,

Yenn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HEOs0TKK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-29T10:29:24.962+0000)

What do you think could or should happen, in particular,

Just reworking his E to either give more defense and/or reliable mobility would fix him, so he can at least swap out his first item with something else.

The two main problems are that it's incredibly hard to get into the enemy team with his E, and once he's in, he dies almost instantly if he doesn't Hourglass.

One possible change could be to turn his E into something like Hexflash, or reducing the speed (which is already useless, because it pushes him over the cap) and letting him reactivate it to flash based on distance moved, and then lowering his early game Q and W damage to compensate.

Moody P1 votes

That sounds like a good approach, centering him around his team fight

MiracleMorg941 votes

No. His kit is fine. With the way Riot does reworks, I wouldn't trust them to change him correctly so I rather him stick where he is now.

usul12021 votes

How is he going to have a 54% win rate early if it's 100% team reliant? That's not how statistics work... Since other lanes reasonably have a 50% chance of winning. A 54% win rate early is a lot above the statistical average, and would seem to point out that you're wrong and that he's a lane bully.

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