So Riot, let's talk about Veigar...

Squidblimp··6 votes·418 views

You removed DFG, lowered the ratio on his ult, and made his stun much harder to land in order to reduce the reliability of one-shotting someone from range. So reliability was the issue. I get that.

Veigar can still one-shot someone with his full combo if he farms enough with his improved Q, which is great. However here is the issue: his combo has almost NO reliability now. It is extremely easy to avoid his stun. Most other champions with hard-to-land CC that they need for their full combo have a way to make it easier to land that CC.


Let's look at some other champions that need hard CC for their combos, but have hard-to-land CC, but have a way to make it easier:

(1) Vel'Koz's knockup is hard to land, which he needs for his full combo to hit. Therefore, his Q was given a slow to chain into the knockup.

(2) Brand needs a stun to easily unload his full combo. However, his stun requires him to light you on fire and hit a skillshot. The 2 individual skills aren't hard to land, but landing them close together is harder, balancing him.

(3) Xerath has a hard-to-land long-ranged slow-moving stun, but he can AOE slow to make it easier to land.

(4) Anivia has a slow moving stun that she needs for her combo and to make enemies take more damage from her ult, but it has a large AOE and she can use her wall to lead people into the stun.

(5) Syndra has a stun for her full combo. However, she needs to set up her full combo in advance with many balls on the map. She can also slow her opponent before stunning them to make the stun easier to land.


I'm sure that there are more examples. However as you can see, all these champions have unreliable hard CC that is NEEDED for their full combo to land, but they have a way make their hard CC MORE reliable by another part of their kit; they have slows, they have walls, they have specific requirements that need to be met, you can see their combo coming but it's reliable, etc.

Veigar does not. He has a 0.5 second delayed easy-to-dodge stun. Now, I understand he can one-shot you. However, he can barely one-shot anyone without landing his Dark Matter, which is IMPOSSIBLE to land without hard CC, unless your opponents are terrible. He has no way to slow his enemy. He has no way to land his Dark Matter inside his cage either, since the AOE is small enough that they can simply sidestep the meteor.

So Riot, I understand removing the reliability off a one-shot champion, but can we please find another way that he can actually set up his combo? Add a slow to his Q, make his Dark Matter cast faster inside his Event Horizon, make his abilities stun if they hit an enemy inside Event Horizon, I don't know. Something. I don't want his instant stun back. I just want a way that I can actually set up his combo and burst someone. Let me interact with someone in an interesting way if I manage to trap them in my cage, because right now, all I can do is spam my Dark Matter and hope they are dumb enough to get hit by it in the cage.

Please, consider this RIot. Thank you. :)

8 Comments

DrCyanide2 votes

Dark Matter really is an odd ball skill. Riot mentioned when they changed Veigar that they wanted to see more Dark Matter, but without the fall time being reduced there are very few reasons to drop it prior to a stun.

Squidblimp1 votes

Dark Matter actually does almost as much damage as Veigar's ultimate if you use it on a non-AP champion. Riot needs to implement a way to actually land the ability.

lB2kGRlc8y1 votes

I had an idea of how to add reliability to his kit with a single change that fits his character thematically. Add a space dilation effect to the inside of his cage, which would double the travel speed, size and hitboxes of anything inside the area, effectively halving the size of the interior. This would make both his baleful and his dark matter easier to land without adding soft cc into the equation or reworking his other abilities. Since veigar seems to be themed around cosmic power, i think it would make sense that he'd display some actual control over it. It would also fit his character, as he'd basically be annihilating enemies far larger than him as if to invalidate any criticisms about his size.

Squidblimp1 votes

Yeah, honestly at least his Dark Matter should be sped up inside the cage. Either that, or cause his other abilities, like Baleful Strike, to stun enemies while they are in the cage so he can follow up with Dark Matter.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Ummm, for Xerath, you're not playing right if you go slow into stun. You should stun first to get the guaranteed center W hit, then go into a Q

Squidblimp1 votes

You could, but the stun is fairly hard to hit. Xerath has long-range poke though, so I guess he is a bit less relevant.

Erockandroll1 votes

Veigar People complain about him losing his very Reliable Stun,

Annie yet won't mind if her Reliable stun, were to just disappear.

Squidblimp1 votes

The thing is about Annie is that she can burst people much earlier than Veigar, whereas Veigar needs more time. Also, Annie's stun is easier to hit, so people were getting nuked by it much more often. Finally, I think Annie still has her stun how it is because the range is fairly short. I dislike Annie's instant stun but at least I can see when she has it charged so i can back off.

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